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EXOL

@EXOL

Stunner

+ 7

Posted: 12 years ago

#31

found something interesting :

Mangal sutra was indeed an auspicious piece of jewelry worn by woman at

the time of marriage which she continued to wear at all times.

But it was not tied to her neck as a sacred thread to the blessings of

"mangalyam thanthunanena'" sloka.It was because it was always a golden

chain with an amulet.It was part of the wedding jewelry traditionally worn.

In Sita's times, the 'ChoodamaNi' worn on the top of the head was an

auspicious jewel that can not be parted off by the woman.That jewel was a

like a small ring having a 'gem'. Rama describes it as the gem got from the

waters. That must be the reference to pearl.The pearl was used as an amulet

for long life and prosperity according Atharvana vedas .So the choodamani

was considered by Sita as life itself.

In Sita Kalyanam, the pearl studded ChoodamaNi was given by Sita's father to

Rama's father who in turn gave it to Sita'a mother who fixed it on Sita's head,

as Rama was looking on. Similarly there may be other auspicious ornaments

meant for a married woman and would have been gifted at the time of

marriage by one of the families to be worn.These ornaments would have been

regarded as precious or non-removable as is done with Thaali.

So basicaly during Sita's time it was choodamani which had equal significance.

Another source tells the same thing as well :

in valmiki ramayana its mentioned that one auspicious jewel was guarded by Sita as her own life while she was in Ashoka vana. It was the ChoodamaNi, that was worn on the head! Sita did no mind losing her jewels most of which were gifted to her by Anasuyawhom she met during vana-vaas. She threw some of them down when she saw the vanaras at the time of abduction. She left the others hanging in the simshubha tree. She was not seen wearing any jewel while she was in the Ashoka vana. But she secretly guarded this choodamaNi. This choodamaNi was a special jewel which she "deliberately guarded". (4)

Such a jewel was a gem got from the waters. 'Vaari sambhavaH', saya Sita. (5)

Such a gem was got from the heavens, says Rama (6)

Such a gem which is got from the waters, from the heavens and embedded in gold is the exact way an amulet for protection from threat to life is to be made according to AtharvaNa vEda.

The way Sita kept it safe and near her body all the time (secretly tied to her saree) has all the indications of a Mangal aabharaN or an auspicious jewel that is held dear by the wife as though her husband' life is present in that.

for details :http://www.scribd.com/doc/79009366/12856007-Maangalya-DharaNam-Origin-and-Meaning

Edited by nneeiill - 12 years ago

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Incense

@Incense

Sparkler

Posted: 12 years ago

#32

thanks neilu for sharing i m a central indian and wearing magalsutra isnt part of our custom...infact sindoor daan and saat phere acccomplish the central indian wedding since lord rama hailed from central india it must be prevalent tht time infact in both ramcharitmanas and ramayana there is no mention of magalsutra there is only the description of sindoor daan saat phere and kanya daan and then the wedding was complete...

besides sitaji was from janakpur or mithila which was part of nepal and outkirts of bihar traditionally nepalese dont have custom of wearinging mangalsutra its actually duboo ki maala or tilhari maala

In bihar the most important ornament in bichiya the foot ring which is given by parent and is prevalent in UP too ...wearing sindoor and bichiya is considered most imp here is the link http://post.jagran.com/know-the-importance-of-traditional-wedding-ornaments-1350635227

there is the research too in this context tht sitaji's mangal abhusaan or auspicious jewel was chooramani as she threw all the jewels on the mountains but kept the chooramani it one can find the context in the link above...

so concluding all these facts i dont believe tht lord rama tied mangulsutra unless there is a sarga in ramayana or ramcharitmanas which mentions the mangalsutra

mangalsutra is popular trdition of mahrasthra and south india there is popular folk lore tht sitaji started wearing mangalsutra once she returnd to ayodhya she had seen mandodari and dhanyamalini wearing mangalsutra for their husband's long life and as reverence for these pious lady she wore mangalsutra and hence the culture started

Edited by arti07 - 12 years ago

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EXOL

@EXOL

Stunner

+ 7

Posted: 12 years ago

#33

Oh so ur region does not have this custom...so that does reinforces the researches which says
Mangalsutra origin is from south India. Infact I remember reading somewhere that tying of knots is is auspicious in a marriage . So in northern Part it was tying of garments during the pheras which symbolized the knots where as in south India it's tying of Mangalsutra .

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#34

Originally posted by: nneeiill
Oh so ur region does not have this custom...so that does reinforces the researches which says
Mangalsutra origin is from south India. Infact I remember reading somewhere that tying of knots is is auspicious in a marriage . So in northern Part it was tying of garments during the pheras which symbolized the knots where as in south India it's tying of Mangalsutra .

The tying of garments during the pheras is part of the South Indian tradition too.

As far as I know, there is no mangalya dharanam in north indian weddings but women still wear mangal sutras, don't they?

As for me, I will continue to believe that Sitaji wore mangalsutra because of the Devi Bhagawatham and Lalitha Sahasranam, but it's really hard to know for sure,since traditions during the treta yuga for north and south india must be far different than they are now.😕 I don't think we can base the customs on what the customs are today for the north and south.

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Stalwart.

@Stalwart.

Inactive

Posted: 12 years ago

#35

Originally posted by: JanakiRaghunath

The tying of garments during the pheras is part of the South Indian tradition too.

As far as I know, there is no mangalya dharanam in north indian weddings but women still wear mangal sutras, don't they?

As for me, I will continue to believe that Sitaji wore mangalsutra because of the Devi Bhagawatham and Lalitha Sahasranam, but it's really hard to know for sure,since traditions during the treta yuga for north and south india must be far different than they are now.😕 I don't think we can base the customs on what the customs are today for the north and south.

@Janaki in AS Ramayan did they show Ram tying Mangalsutra???

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Incense

@Incense

Sparkler

Posted: 12 years ago

#36

Originally posted by: nneeiill
Oh so ur region does not have this custom...so that does reinforces the researches which says
Mangalsutra origin is from south India. Infact I remember reading somewhere that tying of knots is is auspicious in a marriage . So in northern Part it was tying of garments during the pheras which symbolized the knots where as in south India it's tying of Mangalsutra .

yup the mangalsutra is not mentioned actually my rant for previous epi is different i dont wanna speak...but chalo me breaking my promise ...in both ramcharitmanas and ramayana it is said tht kakaeyi offered ascetics clothes to ram lakshman and sitaji and sitaji

here is the sarga from tulsidas ramacharitmanas it says

"seeya sakuch bas uttare na deyi , soo suni tamaki uthi kakeyi , munni pat bhushan bhaajan aani aagi dheere boli mrudu baani ..."

tht means sita was quite and didnt answered she was way too embarassed hearing all these conversations kakeyi grew angry she gave hermit clothes jewellery and vessels to lord rama and said...wear it and go to forest hernceforth...clearly tuslidas has mentioned the hermit jewellery ie. bhushan means jewelllery which is rudraksh maala hence ram lakshman and sitaji wore hermit clothes and jewellery

in valmiki ramayana too the context it something like this

"I am going to reside in the abode of forest for fourteen years. Bring a shoel and a basket both for me."Thereupon, Kaikeyi shamelessly bringing personally of men, said to Rama; "Put these on" Taking those two pieces of bark (as loin cloth and cover) from kaikeyi and discarding his clothing of fine yarn, Rama put on the garb of ascetics

Lakshmana too there itself before his father put on the clothing of ascetics, by discarding his beautiful raiment.

Then, Seetha who wore silken clothing, by seeing the piece of bark intended to be worne by her, felt alarming as a deer would on seeing a snare(set for entrapping)Feeling abashed while taking the wearing apparel made of Kusa grass and greatly troubled in mind, Seetha who bore auspicious marks knew what is righteousness who was an illustration of righteousness spoke these words with her eyes filled with tears to her husband who looked like Chitraratha(the king of Gandharvas)

"How ascetics residing in the forest wear this piece of bark?" Thus saying, Seetha who was not adept in wearing the bark of trees, erred again and again(in her attempt to wear it)

Keeping one piece of bark on her neck as well as holding it with her hand, Seetha stood abashed, not adept as she was in wearing Rama, the foremost of those upholding virute, quicky came and personally fastened that bark over the sild garment of Seetha.

Seeing the greatest Rama fastening the bark to Seetha in that manner, the women in the gynaecium shed tears from their eyes...

and wen they took the leave dashratha gave royal jewels and rich clothes for sita as she was his daughter in law grah lakshmi...

in both versions it says it was kakeyi who offered the tree bark to ram lakshman and seetha in ramcharitamanas tulsidasji has mentioned sitaji wore hermit abhushan (rudraksh maala) in valmiki it was said dashratha and kausalya persuaded her to wear her royal jewelleries...i wanted kakeyi to offer them clothes here neverthless the epi was great i loved urmila and lakshman alot😳

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Stalwart.

@Stalwart.

Inactive

Posted: 12 years ago

#37

I got this ...

In ancient days the leaves of the palm tree called "Thaala Vriksha" were
strung together and used in the place of a cord or thread.

In this context, it is interesting to learn that the tying of the
mangalsutra, which means auspicious thread or cord, is not a religious practice but a social one, and that too of recent origin.

It is surprising but true that this practice was not in vogue in ancient
days in Hindu weddings. The "Grhyasutras" ( laws of domestic rituals) do not mention the mangalsutra but only a "kankana bandhana". The kankana bandhana or protective cord was worn by the couple to protect them from all kinds of pollution before the samvesana (consummation).

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#38

Originally posted by: Krishni51

@Janaki in AS Ramayan did they show Ram tying Mangalsutra???

No, in neither of the previous Ramayans they showed Ram tying mangalsutra, but they did show Sita wearing it during vanvaas. So I'm wondering if the mangalya dharana is an actual part of the wedding or not, or if women wore it afterwards for the long life of their husband.

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Piu Chatterjee

@Transference

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 12 years ago

#39

Originally posted by: JanakiRaghunath
@manzilmukul,

I am sorry if our reference to nautanki offended you. It was not meant offensively. My intention was that some of the scenes in this show were shown too lightly with not enough research. I was not impressed with many of the scenes in the last two episodes because they seemed too rushed and not as meaningful as they should be, especially pertaining to Ram's decision to take vanvaas. It seemed too superfluous to me. Of course this is my own opinion and I'm not forcing it down anyone's throat. I know many people in the forum loved the last two episodes so my intention is not to offend them. I'm just expressing my views.
Janaki..It's pretty ok as most of people from other parts of India are actually unaware about the sacredness of the word Nautanki and SWANG and the word has become a cliche for depicting intense melodrama.Since mytho was the most prominent theme of these nautanki's so the shows too follow the INTENSE MELODRAMATIC presentation which represents grandeur .The whole concept of Nautanki or Ram leelas performed during dussehra are an extension of the nautanki culture.SWANG /NAUTANKI refers to huge processions and plays with mythology as a base.YOU GOT TO WATCH SWANG OF ALLAHABAD ONCE IN A LIFETIME TO EXPERIENCE DIVINITY.
@bold and underlined...Here I would beg to disagree coz even if some PH has some past shows which m unaware of ,they are really trying hard to keep the story intact even after incorporating lots of other popular versions too.
However I would agree to the fact that sometimes things are a bit rushed ,but then I guess coz it's a weekly show channel must have given them some time slot or schedule as such to wrap up...So no matter even if they are rushing ,I found the beauty intact.
@blue OFC That's what forums are for ?HEALTHY DISCUSSIONS WITHOUT DISRESPECTING EACH OTHER'S BELIEFS.

I'm not against other sources being incorporated into the storyline. I don't understand why people think that if we have a problem with one story, it means we're rigid about one source. I support the concept of incorporating many sources, but it is my belief that not all the stories maintain the dignity of the characters. Take for example my reference to the Ram of Ananda Ramayana. Would you guys want to see that story in Zee Tv's Ramayan? We can always say the show is "respecting" other sources by including that story, but how many people will want to see Ram ordering Lakshman to kill Sita?

A show should be careful in what stories they show in their serial. I'm not saying Zee Tv should stop incorporating other sources. I'm just saying that the flow of the story should not be lost, and for me, the flow was lost once Ayodhya Kand started in the show. Others may have accepted the apsara story, but even if it's from Krittivas Ramayan I don't believe in it. I feel that it portrays the characters as base humans and you may disagree with me, but I'm entitled to my opinion.
The show needs to regain its consistency and I'm hoping that the future episodes will stick to the main story and incorporate other sources occasionally. The show should not be based on folklore. It can incorporate folklore but it should stick to the authentic story 80% of the time.

Anyway, I don't mean any offense to anyone here, but I'd just like to point that that just because some story is from a source, it doesn't mean people have to accept it. There are many stories out there that are plain absurd and if those stories go against our ideals of Ram, Sita, and Lakshman, viewers don't have to accept them. I realize that the apsara story is from Krittivas Ramayana, but my opinion on it hasn't changed and I would have preferred had a normal wedding been shown in its place.
@ BOLD and underlined I am not being judgemental at all and never think that one should never express opinions,In fact m glad that you did.
Now coming to your point of not all stories being appropriate or beyond the dignity of characters..I COMPLETELY DISAGREE.India is a huge country ,with so many religions,castes,creeds,languages and different beliefs. for eg If RCM is sacred for north Indians ,the Shri Ram Panchali /Krittivasi Ramayan is EQUALLY SACRED AND PIOUS for BENGALIS and calling something UNBELIEVABLE from a HOLY BOOK of BENGALIS does actually HURT religious sentiments of BENGALIS too..Since I am a BENGALI,Sri Ram Panchali holds lots of importance in our FAITH.I am not much a mytho reader myself but I have grown up hearing its SIGNIFICANCE AND DIVINITY.So can you actually UNDERMINE our RELIGIOUS TEXT just because our context does not match RCM ????For eg .. Even the term AKAL BODHAN of devi is not actually there in Valmiki Ramyana,It finds its origin in Sri Ram Panchali ,before which devi puja was mostly done in spring time ,it was only after Lord Rama invoked Devi in Autumn ,THe practice of Durga puja came into existence and alos it is interesting to note that in BENGALIS Kartikeya,Lakshmi,Saraswati and Ganesha are considered to be the children of Goddess DURGA...and Durga puja is celebrated every year with the belief that Devi Durga comes to her mayka with her children during AUTUMN.DIFFERENT AIN'T IT...ABSURD ?????NO
@GREEN What you call PLAIN ABSURD can be someone else's RELIGIOUS BELIEF.and Since RCM is the main story,I would love if they keep up the storyline intact,But calling other stories which happen to be beliefs of people with different faiths..I find that statement PLAIN ABSURD!!

Similarly ,I would say for other versions too...For eg Ram Kathas in SOUTH ...People have faith in them.In this diversified ASIAN REGION,Ramayana has so many different versions and I EQUALLY RESPECT other VERSIONS as Some people EVEN CONSIDER Ravana as GOD and he is worshipped too in Some regions.Even Lakshman or Hanuman ji are given more importance more than Rama in other versions..SO DOES THAT MAKE THEIR HOLY BOOKS AND SCRIPTURES SUPERFLUOUS???????Regarding the context of Anand Ramayan ,Even if Ram ji got Sita ji Killed there might be some REASON,EXPLANATION OR HIDDEN MEANING BEHIND IT.I cannot make a statement unless I have a thorough knowledge of the whole text.As long as these stories are AUTHENTIC ,I would love their portrayal .The whole PURPOSE of this disclaimer is to make the people AWARE that other RELIGIOUS SCRIPTURES are given DUE RESPECT AND IMPORTANCE..COZ IF RCM IS SACRED FOR NORTH INDIANS THEN OTHER VERSIONS ARE TOO FOR OTHER REGIONS...I am actually glad that RESPECT for OTHERS BELIEFS ARE TAKEN CARE OF.We no longer live in an IGNORANT WORLD and the VIEWERS BASE IS MUCH LARGER ,PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT BELIEFS.KUDOS !!To the PH for actually trying something different👏
@ blue...Which you EASILY call folklore or OTHER SOURCES are HOLY BOOKS and SCRIPTURES for People who have different faiths. Demeaning their IMPORTANCE shows LACK of RESPECT for others beliefs.
Lastly I would say Knowledge is like a DROP in the OCEAN,No person or PH can claim that they know it all.RESPECT for others forms the crux of RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE AND IF WE LOSE THAT,then there is no humanity left.
SO AS LONG AS THEY PUT A DISCLAIMER and do not name their story RCM ,THE PH is faring pretty well .

Sita Rama Kalyanam is supposed to be such a grand and divine affair. Viewing it even onscreen is supposed to fill viewers with peace and joy, but in this show more focus was given to the apsara and the wedding was rushed. Not all the rituals were shown and I was left plain disappointed.
Here I AGREE absolutely ...I PERSONALLY would have loved a GRAND WEDDING...I too felt the wedding sequence was a bit RUSHED and the whole feel of ELATION AND SUPREME EXULTATION was LACKING.

I don't have a problem with the whole show. I do think they are trying really hard and I applaud the actors for their effort, but the CVs need to improve a lot to make this mythological show a divine experience for viewers. This is just my opinion and none of you have to accept it.😊

Here again I would AGREE.While certain parts are SIMPLY MAGICAL and gives me Goosebumps like when Lord Rama hugged the leper ,then there are some BLOOPERS like UNVEILED sita ji too which makes it a little disappointing ..NONETHELESS the show as a whole has left me a complete non-muytho watcher glued to its seat..That's commendable...
Although I watch the show only for BLUEY but I am glad that I did coz now m learining ,searching and having a great experience knowing Lord Rama and his journey...

@ all Eeeks koi BLUEY pe bhi DISCLAIMER lagao...that its a warning that you will fall badly for him after watching him😛
@ Neilu meri jaan😆CHOORY FOR DEVIATING OFF TOPIC 😛 I know this is Disclaimer thread and LOL I wrote a pretty long essay on other aspects but CAN I GUSH ON BLUEY here too PRETTY PLEASE😳

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Stalwart.

@Stalwart.

Inactive

Posted: 12 years ago

#40

Originally posted by: JanakiRaghunath

No, in neither of the previous Ramayans they showed Ram tying mangalsutra, but they did show Sita wearing it during vanvaas. So I'm wondering if the mangalya dharana is an actual part of the wedding or not, or if women wore it afterwards for the long life of their husband.

Hmmm...right...even in DBSK nothing was shown like that but I read somewhere earlier that in ancient period (in golden age) nothing was there like tying Mangalsutra...coz all that was there was only gold!!!they had everything in abundance right from ornaments...

In later periods it became difficult to maintain gold ornaments for each and every day esp.for the common people (women coz for their varying alankar) hence a MangalSutra was made for them to put on daily!

In another it says to protect women from other men or some Bandits...I mean women would be safe if they had something showing they were married!

That is why child marriages were practiced long ago!!!