~| Whatever you want to argue about - 2 |~ - Page 48

Originally posted by: Chiillii

It assumes Pandavas stayed deliberately away when CE says nothing of the sort. If they heard the intel

Or 3

3) Krishna told pandavas everything that he discussed with gandhari dhrit and vyasa but did not tell them about attack at all. He also took them and satyaki away, on some pretext. Maybe to check out remnants of kuru camp on the completely opposite side to see if any survivors are there.

I will stick to my theory. Krishna never wanted yudhi as emperor. He never liked him. When he found out about attack he kept quiet.

I agree with bold, but Krishna knew as well as anyone else only Yudhishtira would be accepted as king/emperor by any Pandava including Arjuna. Also, keeping quiet about attack is something refuted by text.

Even the going away with Pandavas and Satyaki was BEFORE Krishna heard about it as per BORI. And Yudhishtira sent Krishna to Hastinapuri while they were on the banks of the river. If Krishna knew AT THAT TIME, his going away is extremely peculiar because he'd have stayed and made sure to protect Arjuna at least. Also, Ashwatthama hadn't even made his plan by then.

Krishna found out after getting to Hastinapuri, and he was told target were Pandavas. Unless we have reason to believe Vaishampayana lied, Krishna also informed the Pandavas. They were ALREADY away from camp by then and stayed there.

S

Chapter 1280(61)

anjaya said, “All those kings left for their abodes. With arms that were like clubs, they cheerfully

blew on their conch shells. O lord of the earth! The Pandavas proceeded towards our camp. The great

archer, Yuyutsu Satyaki, followed them. Dhrishtadyumna, Shikhandi, all of Droupadi’s sons and all

the other great archers also proceeded towards our camp. The Parthas entered Duryodhana’s camp,

bereft of its radiance and with its lord slain. It looked like an arena devoid of men.

...

ese were the words the brave ones spoke in your camp.

‘ “They then entered and obtained the treasure chests, with many kinds of riches and gems—silver,

gold, jewels, pearls, the best of ornaments, blankets, hides—many female and male slaves and other

objects required for kingship. O bull among the Bharata lineage! O Indra among men! Having

obtained access to your inexhaustible riches, those great archers roared in delight, having defeated

their enemies. Those brave ones approached their mounts and unyoked them. All the Pandavas, with

Satyaki, remained there for some time. O great king! The immensely illustrious Vasudeva then said,

‘To ensure that everything is auspicious, we should dwell outside this camp.’ All the Pandavas and

Satyaki agreed to this. For the sake of ensuring the auspicious, with Vasudeva, they went outside. O

king! They approached the sacred river Oghavati.

60 Having slain their enemies, the Pandavas spent

the night there. When the sun arose, they

61 quickly sent the powerful Vasudeva to Nagasahvya.

Daruka

62 ascended the chariot. The king who was Ambika’s son

63 was there. When he was about to

leave, with Sainya and Sugriva

64 yoked, they told him, ‘Comfort the illustrious Gandhari, whose

sons have been slain.’ Thus spoken to by the Pandavas, the best of the Satvata lineage set out for that

city. He quickly approached Gandhari, whose sons had been killed.”

------

Pandavas and Panchalas and allies went to Kaurava camp. Pandavas then went to the river outside Kaurava camp. During the massacre, Dhrishtadyumna et al are described in Pandava camp.

Krishna didn't take anyone away from PANDAVA camp. They went to enemy camp in victory and took spoils. While Pandavas and Satyaki and Krishna went to the river, rest returned to their own side.

Krishna then went to Hastinapuri and returned to riverside.

No one did any taking away.

I guess we're not going to agree on this 😆

Can we find a new topic?

I heard arjun is also known gudakesha ,man who has controlled on his sleep, ya nidrajeet which Star bharat version said

I heard same 4 lakshman 2 that he had control over his sleep & some say he dint slept for 14 years.

I know there is poem related urmila taking sleep of lakshman for 14 yrs , I don't think its in valmiki ramayan.

I want to know how can it be possible only , sleep is very necessary for human body as it help to relax body as well as brain .

Did arjun not at all sleep or he do sleep ?

Yayati didnt have any curse in my opinion. He had legal wife / chief wife in Devyani and second wife in sharmishtha. He was scared of Shukracharya.

Eventually he decides his youngest Puru will be heir. But devyani complains to daddy

Shukra intervenes and Yayati purposely holds back naming a heir till shukra dies and then makes his other sons governors reporting to Puru who rules the main teritory on bank of Ganga river.

Turvasu is initially given south west but this family splits eventually. One half joining back puru family through dushyant of sakuntala fame. The other half moves and marries into dravidas in south India this line vanishes

Yadu is initially given south but he and his sons take naga brides and he settles between Narmada and chambal rivers and call it Avanti. What we know today as North MP. They eventually move all the way down to godavari at the time of Kartavirya but are decimated and survivors pushed back, by brahamanas led by Parshuram. This was apparently Brahmin ruled teritory. Then they decide to move north towards yamuna and split into Kunti, Mathura (surasena), Vidarbha and Avanti kingdoms

Druhyu gets west initially but then his descendents establish Gandhara and then move across the river in settle in what is known as Afganistan today, but Arrata at that time. One family eventually merges back with puru line and establishes Bahlika.

Anu gets North. His one branch descended from Usinara establishes Sivi, Sindhu, Saubira, Madra and Kekaya

The other descended from Bali establishes Anga, Vanga Paundra Suhma and Kalinga.

Puru the main line splits first into two one continuing in main kingdom eventually a descendent establishing the city Hastinapur. The other descending from Ajamidha split into 5 tribes Panchals who still live together and move east wards.

One line from main line kuru splits with Satyavati's father Uparichara Vasu and establish Matsya, Chedi, Magadha, Vatsa, Karusha and Nishada (Eklavya fame) kingdoms and eventually thru satyavati takes over main puru line.

By the way Uttara is a puru, direct descendent of Uparichara Puru. So Parikshit is half yadu from Abhimanyu side and half puru from uttara side.

Parihsit also marries a puru. Uttar (uttara's brother) daughter. So Janmejaya is 3/4 Puru.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Yayati didnt have any curse in my opinion. He had legal wife / chief wife in Devyani and second wife in sharmishtha. He was scared of Shukracharya.

Eventually he decides his youngest Puru will be heir. But devyani complains to daddy

Shukra intervenes and Yayati purposely holds back naming a heir till shukra dies and then makes his other sons governors reporting to Puru who rules the main teritory on bank of Ganga river.

Turvasu is initially given south west but this family splits eventually. One half joining back puru family through dushyant of sakuntala fame. The other half moves and marries into dravidas in south India this line vanishes

Yadu is initially given south but he and his sons take naga brides and he settles between Narmada and chambal rivers and call it Avanti. What we know today as North MP. They eventually move all the way down to godavari at the time of Kartavirya but are decimated and survivors pushed back, by brahamanas led by Parshuram. This was apparently Brahmin ruled teritory. Then they decide to move north towards yamuna and split into Kunti, Mathura (surasena), Vidarbha and Avanti kingdoms

Druhyu gets west initially but then his descendents establish Gandhara and then move across the river in settle in what is known as Afganistan today, but Arrata at that time. One family eventually merges back with puru line and establishes Bahlika.

Anu gets North. His one branch descended from Usinara establishes Sivi, Sindhu, Saubira, Madra and Kekaya

The other descended from Bali establishes Anga, Vanga Paundra Suhma and Kalinga.

Puru the main line splits first into two one continuing in main kingdom eventually a descendent establishing the city Hastinapur. The other descending from Ajamidha split into 5 tribes Panchals who still live together and move east wards.

One line from main line kuru splits with Satyavati's father Uparichara Vasu and establish Matsya, Chedi, Magadha, Vatsa, Karusha and Nishada (Eklavya fame) kingdoms and eventually thru satyavati takes over main puru line.

Evening

This is a very detailed line. But can we really accept that the entire country was ruled by Yayati's descandents? I agree Yayati was a great king but was definitely not Chakravarti Samrat. How could they be given the rule of entire country.

Magadh definitely is an older kingdom being from IndoGangetic plain

Aside the Suryavanshis were always considered bluer blood that Chandravanshis so how come they are not into any important state.

@underlined could you give further details on this happening? Wasn't Dushyant a direct Puru descandent?

Originally posted by: Chiillii

By the way Uttara is a puru, direct descendent of Uparichara Puru. So Parikshit is half yadu from Abhimanyu side and half puru from uttara side.

Parihsit also marries a puru. Uttar (uttara's brother) daughter. So Janmejaya is 3/4 Puru.

Arjun was half Puru (from Pandu) and half Yadu from Kunti

Subhadra was a pure Yadu,.so Abhimanyu is 3/4 Yadu

Parikshit is half Puru from Uttara's side, 37.5% Yadu and 12.5% Puru from Abhimanyu's side

That makes Janmayey 81.25% Puru and 18.75% Yadu

The genealogy is well documented in MBh and Harivamsa.

Anyone wants to start a tracing group? We can make a thread here and start with gods.

First page will be the pictorial.

Rest of it we can argue it out and come to a conclusion at each level and then add to the pictorial.

Or we can do that in this thread itself with Krishnapanchali adding pictorial to first post if she is so willing.

Magadha did start much earlier. In the time of previous emperor Prithu son of Vena. It is named after suta Magadha. A governor of suta varna who had the name Magadha. He established the region by settling humans in the area.

Rama's ancestor Raghu conquered the region and then lost it. Shatrughana brother of Rama, killed the guy Madhu a desendent of Yadu who had established Mathura (named after him) and his descendents ruled it for a while and then it was taken over by different branch of yadus one of whose descendent waS shurasena grandfather of Krishna

Uparichara himself recieved the kingdom of Chedi as a gift and dowry from the previous suryavanshi king. He did a rajasuya and became an independent king. But before the suryavanshi king, Chedi was established by yadu descendent named Chedi

Uparichara's one son similarly married the daughter and took over the kingdom. From then on it was his descendents ruling Magadha.

Same for Karusha and Nishadha.

Matsya and Vatsa however were completely new establishments in a forest region by driving out nagas and rakshas in the region