~| Whatever you want to argue about - 2 |~ - Page 46

We had people who cracked pythagoras theorem in 800 BCE, its formula is found in Sulbha Sutra dated at 800BCE. But Pythagoras propounded that in 530BCE a good 270 years later.

Similarly we have the value of pi in suryasiddhanta dated 5th to 6 the century BCE but modern scientists could crack it only by 14th CE. That is 1800 years later.

We developed the chemical process for permanent dye for.making Indigo blue and Yellow and red colors. Thereby making colorful clothes around 8th BCE, when rest of the world was wearing offwhite rags.

We developed wootz steel that is still the strongest steel in the world. But because turkish traders bought it from India and sold it in rest of the world it is called damascus steel. Another example is the rust free Iron pillar we know as Vishnu Stambh that is dated 5th CE. Does not have a speck of rust today after 1400 years.

Sushruta samhita has details about anatomy, gyneacology, neonatology, ulcer treatment, fungicides, contagious diseases, orthopaedics and basic surgical interventions.

So we were good in astronomy, theoretical physics, theoretical mathemtics, applied chemistry and mechanical / civil engineering, basic medicine.

But we did not have nuclear weapons, flying chariots, space travel, growing babies in pots and fire pits, speaking monkeys, speaking birds speaking dragons/snakes, Icchadari animals and flying horses.

Most importantly no animal to human head transplant

Just like we dont have them today.

First man to step onto a celestial place in Human body was Neil Armstrong

It was definetly not Yudhishtir

That's exactly what I said Chiillii, I never said that Rewti had actually come from space travel, but the mere incorporation of this principle into the story does represent knowledge of it at least 1500 years before the word could discover it

Is Sulbha Sutra of 800BCE? I have read it was around 300-400BCE.

Aryabhatta had discovered the circumference of earth b 98% accuracy at least 1600 years back.

We definitely were not the oldest civilization, but we definitely were pioneers at many things, just that Greeks, Egyptians and Mesopotamians got more credit.

I didn't know about dyed clothes and steel inventions that's an exciting thing you said. Actually we were discussing it Karna Kawatch kundal were from some higher quality steel, they have to be something special that Arjun's father traded it for a sure shot weapon

Originally posted by: Chiillii

First man to step onto a celestial place in Human body was Neil Armstrong

It was definetly not Yudhishtir

And neither was Trishanku

Rwpostigm since the argument is continuing without anyone seeing this.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Also, guess what I found:

he gods came in their heavenly chariots—the rudras, the adityas, the vasus, the twinAshvins, all the sadhyas and all the maruts, with Yama and the god of wealth9 at theforefront. There also came the daityas, the suparnas,10 the great uragas,11 the devarshis, theguhyakas,12 the charanas,13 Vishvavasu, Narada, Parvata, the chief gandharvas with theapsaras, Halayudha,14 Janardana15 and the chiefs among the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.The chiefs among the Yadus, always devoted to Krishna, were also there, witnessing it. Onseeing the five Pandavas, like elephants in rut that had come to a lake full of lotuses, like afire covered with ashes, the chief of the Yadus16 began to wonder. He told Rama,17 “That isYudhishthira. That is Bhima and that is Jishnu18 and those are the valorous twins.” Glancingat them leisurely, Rama cast a pleased glance at Janardana.‘Biting their lower lips in anger, those other warriors, the sons and grandsons of kings, hadset their eyes, hearts and natures on Krishna. Biting their lips and with faces that were likecopper in colour, they only looked at her.19 On seeing Droupadi, Pritha’s mighty-armed sonsand the brave and great-natured twins were struck with the arrows of the god of love.20 Theplace was full of gods, rishis, gandharvas, suparnas, nagas, asuras and siddhas, pervaded withdivine fragrances and covered with divine garlands. A great roar arose from the drums,21 andthe sounds of the flute, the veena and cymbals echoed. The celestial routes were crowdedwith the heavenly chariots of the gods.‘Then, one after another, those kings exhibited their valour for Krishna. But the bow was sostrong that with all their strength, they could not string it. The firm wood of the bow recoiledand flung those brave rulers of men on the ground. They failed in their desire and could beseen on the ground, miserable and broken in spirit. That firm bow caused them pain andshattered their bracelets and earrings. Having lost hopes of obtaining Krishna, that assemblyof kings was crestfallen. In that assembly, those kings who boasted of noble birth

__________________________

Krishna is mentioned as WITNESSING it, along with Yadavas.

This is from BORI CE

Thw popular indigo blue color and its dying process for cotton and jute fabric was done in India around 1 BCE. It was done using a plant named after India called Indikon. The red color was derived from another plant a relative of modern day mehendi and yellow from turmeric.

Not only colors were extracted, but Indians figured out addition of alum and some other natural substances with color in a water solution would when absorbed by fabric would make it permanent. That is the cloth will retain the color after washing multiple times.

That is why it is said, India exported color to the world..All colorful fabrics that you see today owe the origin of that color to India.

Coming to wootz steel. Archeologists have found the smelters units for this steel in modern day tamil nadu and ap.

They were not found in any excavation in the north.

These were picked up by turkish traders who landed on the southern coasts through the sea route and taken to rest of the world.

Oldest wootz steel blade in the world currently is from 2Nd CE. But turkish guys landed in india only in 4th CE.

In my opinion the armor that Karna used has to be bronze.

Bronze was again developed in India. Bronze like steel is an allloy, made of copper, zinc, manganese and tin.

It has golden hue compared to compared to copper which is reddish or iron which is black or steel which is silver.

Not just that. Bronze is highly malleable and can be easily made into sturdy, lightweight and thin sheets that would be excellent as an armor

Also steel came much later around 1 or 2 CE, that is the popular opinion.

So it must be bronze armor, when everybody around had iron weapons or copper weapons. Because bronze is much harder than iron or copper but much more malleable and fusible so can be easily made into an armor

And it definetly looks golden and does not corrode easily

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Rwpostigm since the argument is continuing without anyone seeing this.

Yeah krisnna witnessed the swayamvar with yadavas. No one doubts that. He didnt participate. Neither did any other yadava.

Unless she was sister like or daughter like which means one of their own. It doesnt make sense for them not to.

Infact southern recenssion has him go one step further and rig the event so that Karna loses and Arjun wins

Most importantly, Drupad was not capable enough to do such strategic planning on his own.

Otherwise he would have found a better way of refusing Drona half his own kingdom instead of public humiliation.

Your and mine disagreement is only on the fact that you say Krishna Vyasa Planned together.

I say they dont. They planned separately for their own self interest / chosen protege

I give polyandry as proof. You dont believe that

I give uppandaavs death as proof. You dont believe that either.

Krishna double cross theory doesnt work with me.

If Krishn presumed, Pandaavs were going to face an attack, why was Dhrisht sleeping. Why were uppandavas getting drunk, as their fathers waited to be attacked.

Even if they were not required to save pandavas they needed to be told and if they were told they needed to remain alert and wait for favourable news before they could start partying.

Pandavas definetly were not close by as even if cries of help are not heard smoke and fire can be seen from.several kms away specially in the flat lands that kurukshtra was. And during the entire battle pandavas there was no separate camp for pandavas and panchalas. Yudhishtir set up the camp for everyone at assandivat.. There were different tents in the same camp for everyone.

We may have doubts on uppandavas maternity but they were definetly sons of pandavas. How come.Krishna doesnt tell them, that the war is not over yet. Ashwi is planning a midnight raid on your fathers. No son would party while his dad is expecting an attack, even if he does not join them.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Yeah krisnna witnessed the swayamvar with yadavas. No one doubts that. He didnt participate. Neither did any other yadava.

Unless she was sister like or daughter like which means one of their own. It doesnt make sense for them not to.

The other reasons simply could be Drupad didn't want non kings/prince to participate and Yadavs were neither one nor there was any chance of them becoming one.

Plus Yadavs did have a lot of intermarriage we all know. Even if she was a daughter/sister to one clan members, that doesn't prevent other clans from participating.

Yadavs not participating doesn't mean they were related

Yes if they were with some plan then that's another thing

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

@Nora

It's not true that Krishna never contacted Pandavas prior to swayamvara or that he didn't know of their prowess.

Pandavas were in a better position prior to lac house. They were princes, living a cushy life even though there were problems with Kauravas. Krishna was under constant attack from Jarasandha. Then, he was busy fleeing to Dwaraka.

Pandavas had beaten Drupada in guru dakshina war and taken half the kingdom. It wasn't a secret. Drupada was related to Narada clan. There's no way the news didn't spread through Aryavarta. Narada was already in touch with Krishna by then.

Krishna sent Akrura to talk to Hastinapuri and offered support in fight against Kauravas. I agree it was probably a "hey, you help me, and I help you" offer. There was no response from Pandavas that we know of.

Then, lac house happened. During the months after, Panchali's adoption happened. Then Krishna was suddenly allied with Pandavas and Panchali.

It wasn't a matter of Krishna and Vyasa simply taking advantage of Panchali's adoption. An alliance between 2 nations doesn't exactly happen that way.

• For one, it takes time to negotiate terms between countries.
• For another, That an alliance was planned by Vyasa is clear. He was no one to make that arrangement if we assume he was simply taking advantage 😆. The only way he'd have the clout is if he already talked to Drupada. There is no way then or now, there is no way that in ANY corner of the world, that an alliance was planned without including the girl's father in the plans. Also, Drupada clearly arranged things thinking Arjuna might be alive. He obviously knew, and the most likely person to have told him is Vyasa. Ie, Vyasa wasn't simply taking advantage. He arranged the whole thing. For him to arrange the whole thing, Drupada needed to have daughter which brings me to point 3.
• Third point, Panchali was not a child Drupada WANTED to adopt. She came along with Dhrishtadyumna. The only reason for Drupada to adopt her would be it was a condition for getting the boy. SOMEONE placed that condition. Given Krishna's involvement in placing an orphan called PANCHALA with his uncle, it was likely Krishna. Or could be Vyasa. Regardless, SOMEONE put that condition. So no, none of it was unplanned UP TO THIS PART.

Also, if Drupada were a friend of Pandu's, why didn't this become an issue during guru dakshina war?

Bottomline is it wasn't that Krishna ignored Pandavas when they needed help. It was that THEY ignored Krishna when HE needed help but were quite willing to take his money and help when they were desperate. PANDAVAS were the opportunistic nincompoops.

In our hurry to make Krishna a villain, let's not forget the basics of logic.

One other thing: I strongly believe Vyasa/Bheeshma had a hand in instigating the murder attempt/lac house to MAKE Pandavas desperate enough to agree to half the kingdom and a semi suicide mission of attacking Jarasandha. If they failed, only they and Krishna would fall. Hastinapuri and Suyodhana would be safe.

Mere pass ek question hai

Meeting of 3 Krishnas as arjun, draupadi, Krishna met first time each 2 other including draupadi , Krishna.

As swayamber was Panchali's first public appearance.

Vyas dint gave any reference where draupadi met Krishna before swayamber .

I talked many people about it all say no krishna not met draupadi before swayamber .

How is Krishna related 2 adoption ?

If I believe ekamansa was draupadi , so what I read it was from vasudev's orders ekamansa was brought up as boy

My info ekamansa went 2 Vindhyachal further given in marriage 2 durvasa. , Krishna met ekamansa in Vindhyachal.

Ekamansa would be nearby age of krishna arjun that's near by 21

Panchali's description of Kumari chaapi definitely is not of 21 , max she was 18 in swayamber

Can upandavas be dasi putra adopted by draupadi ?