The undercurrents today... - Page 3

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567043 thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
#21
@znursingh It makes me feel very guilty when you say that your eyes water while reading my post :(.
#### Oldies are old hands at getting their way!!Baal dhoop mein safed nahin kiye!!
Ok, I will stick to the plain old black in this forum. I will reserve my "signature" for the other forums then.
#### No,please you carry right on with your signature here too...I WAS kidding about watering eyes...but black IS nicer,though red,orange & yellow are MY favorite colors! But I'm not in-your-face as you claimed you were which was neat deflection but not as neat as mine! You DID change color!

I agree we need to support the generation that is trying to work on the change but I am a little concerned about the motivation of the facebook/twitter lovers. People think having an e-march or "attending an event" on FB is equal to contribution.
#### Like you I am also a little apprehensive about the depth of commitment of the candle-light-vigil brigade...but I look at with SOME amount of wonder that it CAN be...who would have imagined even this very superficial involvment a few years ago?

I know a lot of people dig the Lokpal "revolution" but tell me how many of those who supported actually cared about what happened to it?
##### I think there is a built in fatigue term to all such movements undertaken without studying the subject in detail.Hazare & his team have done their home work-they need better communication/people skills to tap into the very real ground swell of anger of the Aaam Adami.

A deadline was given for its implementation right? What happened to it? Who is following up on that? And how many of the supporters actually bothered about the contents without being judgemental?
##### The work IS quietly going on...but its awful hard to get ANY reaction from MamaMafia & her paralyzed government! WHY Team Anna is not taking on the Govt NOW-with its useless PM,its scam tainted HM & their Lokpal votary AM Sighvi caught with his pants embarrassingly around his skinny ankles...is BEYOND me!

My point is mindless mobilization just for the "fad" serves no real purpose, we need people with genuinely good intent and self motivation to go out there and actually do the "dirty work", if anything we should support them in doing the dirty work.Sadly, I don't feel so optimistic about this generation either.

##### Maybe "mindless mobilisation" will be the harbinger of the "Real Thing"? Small beginings...etc? If the younger generation is unable or unwilling to stem the rot...then all hope IS lost...na?
567043 thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
#22

Originally posted by: Bazinga

@znursingh Your font is taking the hue of the post you are answering to because it continues with the hue of the post you are quoting. You can highlight the entire post (use the mouse cursor to highlight your part in the post or simply press Ctrl+A if you want to change the color of the entire post), then click on bold (you can see the icon "B" above your text editor box) if the post you are quoting is in bold. To change the color you have to highlight the post or your reply part of it once again, then click on the icon "A" with a thick black bar underneath it, once you click on it, it will display the color options, select the color you want in the available options.



Thank you for taking time out to help the disadvantaged!!...its kinda clear as mud now! I will try follow your instructions to the T-probably fail spectacularly & so continue to post colorfully!
vids08 thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
#23
Hi All
I must say I loved today's episode and thanks, it feels good to read the discussion.
The presentation was brilliant. This was the first episode where a person in authority was actually confronted about his responsibility.
The cost difference between Branded and generic medicines is shocking.
But I still have hopes for India because finally Good Doctors like Dr. Gulati , Dr. Samit, Dr. Devi Shetty are being appreciated for their efforts and contribution and they have stepped out to share their expertise and spread the awareness.
As Dr. Samit said, its not difficult, we don't have to do much. Just implement what exists.
My faith still is in ...India will change for better. Satyamev Jayte is the baby steps towards the change.
Also in my POV the mindset of the generation is changing.
When I was in teens (25 years back) and doing well in school, my parents wanted me to be a doctor, they thought even if I be an MBBS and put up a medical dispensary, my life is made. The monetary aspect in that ambition was always prominent. This was the way of thinking in my generation .

Times have now changed. Now I talk to my nephews, neices - they want to chase their dreams, - the career options have definitely based on their own aspirations which is good. It will prevent corruption. The need to live materialistically will not be a priority if you get happiness in what you do.
Coming back to the healthcare:
Bad Doctors should be exposed and have their licenses revoked. There should be a message that is clear that they cannot get away...
Having said that, good doctors still exist and also feel they have their own network of like minded doctors.
I still talk to my GP in India when any of one of my family is unwell.I am one f those lucky ones, who has a brilliant doctor who believes in serving Humanity as his priority.
He has given me free consultancy during both my pregnancies and still gives me advice when the kids are unwell. Whenever my family in India have serious illness and need of hspitalisation, he refers to a good hospital with fantastic facilities and they too are simple and cost effective for us who run similar programs like Dr. Shetty. ( Narayan Hrudalaya) too is one of the hospital he refers to.

-Purva- thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Engager Level 4 Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 13 years ago
#24
We need to somewhere understand the nature of impact social networks and media can have on events.

Jessica Lal's case was reopened because of social media activism and candle light vigils. The point was that public eye was turned to the case and people were in no mood to keep quiet. The same kind of mass hysteria did not occur at the time of the '84 riots. In both cases the perpetrators of the crime were well known publicly but the difference was the public mood on what was acceptable and what was not.

Second point is the long term impact. In case of public hysteria - it can create a mood but not change events. We are asking for a Lokpal Bill from whom? Did anyone in the country pause to question that we are asking the thieves to hire the cops? We want politicians to pass a bill that would curb their rampant looting and we are hopeful that the bill would be passed. Isn't that naivete of the highest order.

What exactly will the Lokpal Bill accomplish? Like today's show it clubs all levels of corruption under the same heading. So if a peon takes 10Rs. bribe to bring a file to the top of the heap and a minister pockets 100 thousand crore - the quantum of punishment is the same, the process of inquiry and investigation is the same and the time it'll take to inquire is also the same. Isn't that laughable? But then we digress from the show. Sorry just had to rant about the latest non-issue that's been the hot topic for so many months.
Bazinga thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#25
@znursingh And, LOL @ neat deflection, hahaha!

About supporting the people who are actually doing the work - I see your point, yes. SOMETHING is better than nothing.

About Lokpal - Firstly, I agree with Anna and his team lacking enough people skills to present the content. And you are so right about the fatigue term as well, I think it was pretty evident from the time the "movement" started. Secondly, you think work is going on on that front? What work is required now?Anyways, C played the game that they know as well as the back of their hand - dig something embarrassing about the supporting team and blow it out of proportion with the sensation-loving media's help to "thwart" the opponents. I found it incredibly silly, when people pounced on Kiran Bedi because of her embarrassing travel bill manipulation aeons ago - what were the idealists expecting? That the team would be 100% clean? No , seriously - her travel bill is a deal - breaker? And C hogging crores and crores of money is not a big deal? This is just penny wise pound foolish behavior. I find it amusing when WE don't look within ourselves first, the ideals we expect from others don't seem to apply to us. I don't remember the last time someone willingly tried to stop at the flash of the red light without trying to jump the signal or tried to follow any legal procedure. The problem is we are used to lack of discipline ourselves, now if someone comes in and tries to tighten up things a bit, we start to question them. We have encouraged this because we think it works to our advantage for now, we don't see the problem it causes in the big picture. The change should begin with US, before we demand our rights let us remember our responsibilities and commit to fulfilling them . I know I digressed but I just could not control it, the reason why I made that point is I see that attitude in very few people and unless a majority displays and adopts the same, I don't think we can consider anything a harbinger for a better tommorrow.
Edited by Bazinga - 13 years ago
-Purva- thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Engager Level 4 Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 13 years ago
#26
Hmmm what is bothering me right now - I make a thread asking for the spammers IPs to be blocked and within 2 minutes that thread is trashed. However the spammers threads are not.

Don't want to create any controversy, but I like to see what threads are being created by others on the forum and interact on other threads too beside this one and at present that is impossible.
Bazinga thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 13 years ago
#27

Originally posted by: vids08

This was the first episode where a person in authority was actually confronted about his responsibility.

I agree, I think that is what made the episode very interesting. I hope Aamir is not dragged too much into the muck for being our voice today. I faintly remember reading a statement from some politician calling Aamir a businessman doing SMJ solely with the intent of making money. Well, he never denied the monetary aspect of it, however, he ALSO aims at making an impact. I am not a great fan of Aamir the actor, the forte of his movies is always the script than his acting but I have always been a fan of Aamir the Indian 😊.



As Dr. Samit said, its not difficult, we don't have to do much. Just implement what exists.
My faith still is in ...India will change for better. Satyamev Jayte is the baby steps towards the change.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. But the important thing is not to forget what SMJ has brought forth when the show goes off air after airing all the episodes.


Times have now changed. Now I talk to my nephews, neices - they want to chase their dreams, - the career options have definitely based on their own aspirations which is good. It will prevent corruption. The need to live materialistically will not be a priority if you get happiness in what you do.

While it is good this generation is chasing their dreams , I am afraid that they have this tendency to get overtly ambitious and impatient about success.
And the most important thing is they should be strong enough to battle our system. However, for the sake of my wish to see a better India, I would like to be optimistic about them :).
Coming back to the healthcare:
Bad Doctors should be exposed and have their licenses revoked. There should be a message that is clear that they cannot get away...
Having said that, good doctors still exist and also feel they have their own network of like minded doctors.
I still talk to my GP in India when any of one of my family is unwell.I am one f those lucky ones, who has a brilliant doctor who believes in serving Humanity as his priority.
He has given me free consultancy during both my pregnancies and still gives me advice when the kids are unwell. Whenever my family in India have serious illness and need of hspitalisation, he refers to a good hospital with fantastic facilities and they too are simple and cost effective for us who run similar programs like Dr. Shetty. ( Narayan Hrudalaya) too is one of the hospital he refers to.

That is nice. Fortunately, we too have had the opportunity of meeting good doctors with a genuine intent of helping people and it is a good sign that models like NH seem to work.

-Purva- thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Engager Level 4 Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 13 years ago
#28
@Bazinga - Purrrple 😉😃😆

The problem with youth is that it has fire but not the patience or the wisdom to direct the fire. The problem with age is that it has the wisdom but not the fire. Put the two together what you find is not fire directed by wisdom but a general lack of will to take charge.
567043 thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
#29
@znursingh And, LOL @ neat deflection, hahaha!

About supporting the people who are actually doing the work - I see your point, yes. SOMETHING is better than nothing.
##### And who better to see that than our generation-I was one of the ones who felt like a refugee in my own country during those terrible days of the Sikh riots. Yet I really didn't DO anything concrete to raise my voice because my own family was safe at the end of the four day blood bath? No & yes-Yes I volunteered to work with victims & lawyers who were pursuing the cases but I kept a safe distance so that the pain,loss, distress of the victims could not affect MY family.
For every one of I who turned in distaste away from the Congress,there were hundreds of Sardars who flocked to it-genuflecting in the court of the ill-educated Italian ayah.ONE part of me-the WRONGLY feminist one-exulted maliciously at the sight of the old,infirm,caste ridden,fiercely patriarchal MCP politicos bow & scrape in front of a woman! Even an untested,ill-educated firang woman!

About Lokpal - Firstly, I agree with Anna and his team lacking enough people skills to present the content. And you are so right about the fatigue term as well, I think it was pretty evident from the time the "movement" started. Secondly, you think work is going on on that front? What work is required now?
#### The work basically IS ironing out the anomalies that strike a discordant note with you. The IDEA of the Lokpal is an admirable one-it DOES need its modalities to be finessed to address the glaring anomalies that you have mentioned AND there are a host of other similar ones...it was an IDEA whose time had come but the home work WAS lacking...perhaps they need to co-opt some REALLY corrupt people to point out the loop holes in their proposals? Set a thief to catch one...sort of thing ? Career optimists will NEVER be able to plumb the depth of of the criminal minds. Congenital flaw?!


I found it incredibly silly, when people pounced on Kiran Bedi because of her embarrassing travel bill manipulation aeons ago
#### I found it incredibly naive that Team Anna had NOT expected nor prepared for EXACTLY this eventuality!
- what were the idealists expecting? That the team would be 100% clean? No , seriously - her travel bill is a deal - breaker? And C hogging crores and crores of money not being a big deal? This is just penny wise pound foolish behavior.

##### It does help to have a compliant media in bed with you! Vir Singhve & Ms BD taking dictation from MS Radia & timing of THAT leak put ALL media personalities on a short leash immediately.They claim to represent "Freedom of speech" yet are sooo scared to bring up AMSinghvis sex escapades or How ALL land surrounding Delhi has been bought by Rahul Gandhi through Hooda & his hoodlums OR that the pauper Son in law now owns Omaxe & runs IGI airport in Delhi at HUGE daily profits-this family needs to be dumped in a far away sea!If its chhamcha could be sent along...the country could get on with the job of being a COUNTRY rather than a vassal state to the out-lived-its-expiry-date Gandhi family.

I find it amusing when WE don't look within ourselves first, the ideals we expect from others don't seem to apply to us. I don't remember the last time someone willingly tried to stop at the flash of the red light without trying to jump the signal or tried to follow any legal procedure
.
##### I think you must be as unpopular as I am!! At every meeting when people are pontificating about criminal politicians...I bring EXACTLY this point-that we criminals deserve the politicians we have,The ensuing hubhub quietens only when I ask those who have NEVER jumped a red light to raise their hands...and then I rest my case!!

The problem is we are used to lack of discipline ourselves, now if someone comes in and tries to tighten up things a bit, we start to question them - we have encouraged this because we think it works to our advantage, we don't see the problem it causes in the big picture so the change should BEGIN with us, before we demand our rights let us remember our responsibilities and commit to fulfilling them first.
#### I agree a 100%.

I know I digressed but I just could not control it but the reason why I made that point is, I see that attitude in very few people and unless a majority displays and adopts the same, I don't think we can consider anything a harbinger for a better tomorrow.
#### This topic DEMANDS digressions & righteous anger IF it leads us to change.
Sorry! I digressed too!



Edited by znursingh - 13 years ago
Bazinga thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 13 years ago
#30

Originally posted by: Chitrashi

We need to somewhere understand the nature of impact social networks and media can have on events.

Jessica Lal's case was reopened because of social media activism and candle light vigils. The point was that public eye was turned to the case and people were in no mood to keep quiet. The same kind of mass hysteria did not occur at the time of the '84 riots. In both cases the perpetrators of the crime were well known publicly but the difference was the public mood on what was acceptable and what was not.

Jessical Lal case was a one time wonder. How many of the candle light vigils have we seen work after that ? And was the culprit hanged to death in JL case? I don't remember that happening, I think he was sentenced and I am sure that he is out on bail now, killing others like Jessica out there.

Second point is the long term impact. In case of public hysteria - it can create a mood but not change events. We are asking for a Lokpal Bill from whom? Did anyone in the country pause to question that we are asking the thieves to hire the cops? We want politicians to pass a bill that would curb their rampant looting and we are hopeful that the bill would be passed. Isn't that naivete of the highest order.

No, I don't think it is naivete. Our naivete is that we voted them to power , now we have crowned the devils so we need to figure out the way to make them work as well. They will bow to public pressure if we someone is bent on pursuing it, they can continue to do what they are doing as long as WE allow them , the moment we show unity in fighting for the cause persistently, they will bow down to the pressure, they won't have any other option then. So once again it boils down to us and our attitude 😊


What exactly will the Lokpal Bill accomplish?

I have never understood that till date , honestly. And I do not know where do I turn to , to actually see it being objectively discussed with an honest and not a political intention, so that I can grasp the content. The media has an opinionated approach towards it and so I wouldn't dare to turn on a news channel to get an idea on that.

Like today's show it clubs all levels of corruption under the same heading. So if a peon takes 10Rs. bribe to bring a file to the top of the heap and a minister pockets 100 thousand crore - the quantum of punishment is the same, the process of inquiry and investigation is the same and the time it'll take to inquire is also the same. Isn't that laughable?

I don't think we are digressing here because like I was saying, today's topic had touched on a lot of other topics unassumingly, corruption being one of them. Well our law has to be thoroughly reviewed, discussed and revised as it is ridden with loopholes but that is another story altogether.



Edited by Bazinga - 13 years ago

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