Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan - Page 7

Created

Last reply

Replies

1.1k

Views

103.6k

Users

26

Likes

5

Frequent Posters

RamKiSeeta thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Achiever Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 16 years ago
#61

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Well, the theory doing the rounds here (which I consider very plausible, btw) is that Rama chose to divert public slander of Sita to a criticism of him. Had he done what I suggested above and massacred all the gossips, he'd still be criticized and diverting attention from innuendo about Sita, but without making her suffer. You are forgetting that in those times, kings had dictatorial powers, including in Ayodhya. So Rama was under no obligation to reward public innuendos about Sita by having her go through the Agni-pariksha.

Sorry, but no! If a Queen conspires to change the succession plans, like Kaikeyi did, it is a public affair. But if it's a question of whether the King believes in his queen or not, that's his and his affair alone, and nobody else's. Also remember, Rama forced the public to accept Dasharath/Kaikeyi's decision, and that too on a question that directly affected them, so don't say that he had no power to force his will on the public. If he could get the public to go along with a decision that so directly affected them, then how can one claim that he couldn't have done the same with a decision that had nothing to do with them - namely what he did in his private time? Also, the queen was a mere figurehead, and not an alternate ruler, as was the case with, say, Rani Durgavati or Rani Lakshmibhai of Jhansi. There was never any question of Sita ruling Ayodhya, or running things.
Again, no it wasn't. I'll get to it later when the subject of the vanvas comes up, but like I once pointed out, there were a lot of things Rama could have done short of exiling her.

True, we should continue this discussion after it comes up in the serial, but I'll just say one last thing before we put this discussion on pause.
Sita being exiled may or may not have been necessary for the times back then, but I think in the long run, it helped people believe in her innocence. Like today's contemporary people: people worship Sita because she is the epitome of chastity, but if she had not had that exile back then, how many of today's people would have doubted her chastity?
Because Sita was exiled, she went back to Mother Earth by proclaiming her innocence. Mother Earth took Sita onto her lap as a proof of her virtue. It was the ultimate test that erased all doubts from the people of Ayodhya. But by then, it was too late. Sita had already gone. If she had stayed back in Ayodhya and went to Vaikunta the same way as Rama, rumors of her reputation would have travelled from generation to generation, and who knows how terrible they might have been today?
So maybe Sita being exiled was not necessary then. Who knows? I don't know Raj Dharma, so I can't say, but in the long run, I feel that it was necessary, because Sita is now revered as one of the greatest Pativratas Stris. There is no doubt of her virtue.
coolpurvi thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#62

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Maybe, but even then, it was controversial. Had Sita chosen to (with the implicit consent of Rama) walk on a bed of roses, that would have turned to thorns had she been unchaste, it would have created a lot less controversy. It's the walking barefoot on fire that particularly jar modern sensibilities.

Also, Parashurama wiped out 21 generations of kshatriyas for the fault of just one kshatriya family - Kartavirya Arjuna's. Similarly, Rama too should have wiped out anybody and everybody that harbored crass thoughts about Sita. Particularly since whether Sita was chaste or not was nobody's business but Rama's. But I'll discuss that aspect more when we get to the vanvas.


@ bold- I disagree with u. They were not commoner. Had Ram done this this wud have frustated/ ruined the purpose of incarnation of Vishnu n Laxmi as Ram n Sita. She was queen not a common woman. Ram cannot be worshipped alone. Ram's worship is incomplete n useless if one hav doubts for Sita n vice versa. Ram cud have done waht u said. But that wud not have solved the issue. Imagine waht dirty form that doubt wud have taken in Kalyug had Lord Ram not asked her for Agnipareeksha n sent Her for second exile
Edited by coolpurvi - 16 years ago
desichica thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail Commentator Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#63

@ Purvi: Dear, initially when I read Chandraketu's post...i agreed with it to the T, without a doubt!!!! And there is no doubt Chandraketu ALWAYS does a wonderful job in explaining his knowledge!!!!

But wow I must say u have a wonderful eye for analysis...I mean i for once did not realize at all on worshipping Lord Ram alone...b/c HE has always stated that MahaLaxmi is HIS better half and if HE worships Laxmima, then we as humans shud def not forget to worship MahaLaxmi either!!!!

Good observation and analysis Purvi...Kudos to you!!!!!👏

coolpurvi thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#64

Originally posted by: desichica

@ Purvi: Dear, initially when I read Chandraketu's post...i agreed with it to the T, without a doubt!!!! And there is no doubt Chandraketu ALWAYS does a wonderful job in explaining his knowledge!!!!

But wow I must say u have a wonderful eye for analysis...I mean i for once did not realize at all on worshipping Lord Ram alone...b/c HE has always stated that MahaLaxmi is HIS better half and if HE worships Laxmima, then we as humans shud def not forget to worship MahaLaxmi either!!!!

Good observation and analysis Purvi...Kudos to you!!!!!👏



thanks yaar😊
_rajnish_ thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#65

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Maybe, but even then, it was controversial. Had Sita chosen to (with the implicit consent of Rama) walk on a bed of roses, that would have turned to thorns had she been unchaste, it would have created a lot less controversy. It's the walking barefoot on fire that particularly jar modern sensibilities.

Also, Parashurama wiped out 21 generations of kshatriyas for the fault of just one kshatriya family - Kartavirya Arjuna's. Similarly, Rama too should have wiped out anybody and everybody that harbored crass thoughts about Sita. Particularly since whether Sita was chaste or not was nobody's business but Rama's. But I'll discuss that aspect more when we get to the vanvas.


every incarnation of vishnu has a mission, the mission of Parsuram was to free earth from unrighteous kshatriyas, the kshatriyas at that time has assumed themselves as ultimate owner of earth and used to do various injustice, so parsuram came on earth to slay those unrightious kings. I want to add here that Valmiki mentiond him as slayer of kshatriya king not kshatriya, so an inference can be made that he din't slayed all kshatriyas but those evil kings. Remember cleaning of earth is also a mission of God and there is nothing wrong when he do it in the way in which a new clean atmosphere is established, when pralay or dissolution comes, indeed on God wish, then in this not only evil doers but some great soul also dies, but this must be done couz after this only a new world freed from all evils and where only dharma resides could be established. the same was the reason of Parsuram slaying of kshatriya king 21 times, and as you said this is not justified because of mistake done to him by kartivirya only, his mission was to free earth from those king who was doing deed like kartivirya and not only to take revenge from kartivirya himself. He is not human but incarnation of vishnu so his mission is not personal but in interest of humanism . Regarding this i posted a seperate Topic
https://india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1123752
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Achiever Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 16 years ago
#66

Originally posted by: desichica

@ Purvi: Dear, initially when I read Chandraketu's post...i agreed with it to the T, without a doubt!!!! And there is no doubt Chandraketu ALWAYS does a wonderful job in explaining his knowledge!!!!

But wow I must say u have a wonderful eye for analysis...I mean i for once did not realize at all on worshipping Lord Ram alone...b/c HE has always stated that MahaLaxmi is HIS better half and if HE worships Laxmima, then we as humans shud def not forget to worship MahaLaxmi either!!!!

Good observation and analysis Purvi...Kudos to you!!!!!👏

I agree with both of you Purvi and Suniti.
Ram is Sita and Sita is Ram. Someone cannot pray to one without praying to the other, and if they doubt either one, their prayer is useless.
Sita Mata's exile was a very sad part of Ramayan, and I get tears in my eyes whenever I read about it or see Ramanand Sagar's Luv Kush, but in the long run, Sitaji's exile strengthened people's belief in her virtue, so I believe Lord Ram knew what he was doing when he exiled Sita. It was not only to strengthen the society back then's belief in their Queen, but to convince us contemporary people that Sita really was an avatar of Mahalakshmi and one of the most virtuous women.
bharat9 thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#67

Originally posted by: ananyacool

In Kamban's Ramayana, Kamban describes Sita entering fire was like goddess Lakshmi entering her original abode full of lotuses under her feet; fire was like lotus to Sita.



Wow. Didnt think of this way.
Thnx anaya.
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Achiever Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 16 years ago
#68

Originally posted by: rajnish_here


every incarnation of vishnu has a mission, the mission of Parsuram was to free earth from unrighteous kshatriyas, the kshatriyas at that time has assumed themselves as ultimate owner of earth and used to do various injustice, so parsuram came on earth to slay those unrightious kings. I want to add here that Valmiki mentiond him as slayer of kshatriya king not kshatriya, so an inference can be made that he din't slayed all kshatriyas but those evil kings. Remember cleaning of earth is also a mission of God and there is nothing wrong when he do it in the way in which a new clean atmosphere is established, when pralay or dissolution comes, indeed on God wish, then in this not only evil doers but some great soul also dies, but this must be done couz after this only a new world freed from all evils and where only dharma resides could be established. the same was the reason of Parsuram slaying of kshatriya king 21 times, and as you said this is not justified because of mistake done to him by kartivirya only, his mission was to free earth from those king who was doing deed like kartivirya and not only to take revenge from kartivirya himself. He is not human but incarnation of vishnu so his mission is not personal but in interest of humanism . Regarding this i posted a seperate Topic
https://india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1123752

Well said.👏
Shri Ram is known as Maryada Purushotham, the ideal man, so if he had killed anyone who talked against his queen, it would have tainted his honor and that of his dynasty's. Parashuram was also not wrong, because the goal of his avatar was to kill the evil arrogant kshatriyas who ruled the Earth, but the people who talked against Sita were not kshatriyas, and they were not as evil as them either. There were commoners, and they could not defend themselves against Shri Ram had he chosen to attack them. It would have been unfair to raise arms against these people who could not defend themselves unlike the kshatriyas who fought against Parashuram.
The people of Shri Ram's kingdom were equal to his children, and a father does not kill his children if they ever speak against him or their mother. He tries to proove to them that their views are not right by his actions, and a mother does the same. Through Ram and Sita's exile, they proved to the people of Ayodhya, their children, that their Mother Sita was innocent.
I am not saying that the people of Ayodhya were right, but I believe that Shri Ram took the right action instead of revolting against them.
Edited by godisone - 16 years ago
bharat9 thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#69

Originally posted by: coolpurvi


@ bold- I disagree with u. They were not commoner. Had Ram done this this wud have frustated/ ruined the purpose of incarnation of Vishnu n Laxmi as Ram n Sita. She was queen not a common woman. Ram cannot be worshipped alone. Ram's worship is incomplete n useless if one hav doubts for Sita n vice versa. Ram cud have done waht u said. But that wud not have solved the issue. Imagine waht dirty form that doubt wud have taken in Kalyug had Lord Ram not asked her for Agnipareeksha n sent Her for second exile



Purvi,
i completely agree with your points above.
One must always worship Sita-Ram together otherwise the worship is incomplete without a doubt!

Lord Vishnu and Mata Laxmi ji's incarnation as Ram and Sita teaches us a lot.
Ramayan is a huge ocean that is filled with only the sweetest nectar but only those with pure devotion and heart can take an advantage of this Bhakti-nectar.

Khalrika thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#70

Originally posted by: bharat999



Purvi,
i completely agree with your points above.
One must always worship Sita-Ram together otherwise the worship is incomplete without a doubt!

Lord Vishnu and Mata Laxmi ji's incarnation as Ram and Sita teaches us a lot.
Ramayan is a huge ocean that is filled with only the sweetest nectar but only those with pure devotion and heart can take an advantage of this Bhakti-nectar.



I have about 200 tapes of Swami Tejomayananda's, of Chinmaya Mission, discourses on Ramcharitmanas and he says that Lakshmiji is the physical embodiment of Mahavishnu's power or maya shakti. It is the same concept with Saivism too where Siva is God and Parvati/Shakti is his power and therefore they are one and the same. It is the same thing here. Mahavishnu is God and his power is just portrayed as Mahalakshmi, as a female. So they are one and the same. So, if Sita is going through agnipariksha it is just Mahavishnu's maya shakti that is being put through this test. Therefore it is the Lord who is putting himself through this test for the sake of us human beings.

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".