Chicken vs Egg - Page 10

This subject always makes me hungry.
Will have two poached eggs for Breakfast.
Had roast chicken earlier.
So the chicken came first.

Originally posted by: .Doe.

I am fine with my beliefs being questioned. I am comfortable with people trying to test my beliefs for consistency, validity and other elements. I'm comfortable with my beliefs being disproved and having to start the understanding process from scratch again. The question is why are you so afraid of your hypothesis and beliefs undergoing testing?

The irony is that I'm not claiming God to be as vast and great as people claim to be and then limiting that God to very finite and limited human scopes.

Originally posted by: dolphinUSA

I bet that's written by someone who was not physically there when the first cell was created...s/he simply furthered out the assumptions passed on to him for eons...everyone is believing one person who started this whole series of discussions...no one in reality actually went out in search for the answers...
All theories have a predetermined hypothesis...many assumptions are made and many facts left hanging in the air.

That's a bit like saying that if I were to arrive at a murder scene, and I see a body lying on the floor, blood spilt everywhere, the room is all in a mess... according to you, the murder didn't happen because I wasn't there to see it.

Even though I wasn't there, there is a lot of evidence left behind like fingerprints, DNA etc...we use scientific inference to help us identify and capture the real criminal. Similarly, the world is filled with evidence, we weren't there to see evolution taking place, or when the planet formed, but these process left behind its own "fingerprints", and science is a tool we use to help us uncover this evidence and help us understand the natural world and its origins.

It is not what you're saying, it's not like scientists come together and make up some story and then try to pass it on as fact.

Well, you did give options as to what was a miracle. But you never answered the question. So my belief still stands. There is no question of being afraid then ;)

Originally posted by: dolphinUSA

I bet that's written by someone who was not physically there when the first cell was created...s/he simply furthered out the assumptions passed on to him for eons...everyone is believing one person who started this whole series of discussions...no one in reality actually went out in search for the answers...
All theories have a predetermined hypothesis...many assumptions are made and many facts left hanging in the air.

Pardon me but

I bet the holy books were also written by someone who never knew or saw God say let there be light. We simply furthered an assumption of God, everyone is believing one person who spoke to a burning bush or had magical dreams and no one actually confirmed if they were smoking something or on hallucinogens.

At least the hypothesis have a testing process, to be tested for truth, validity and rationality. Unfortunately, religion and faith refuses to go through a process to test for truth, validity and rationality.

@.Doe - Why do you have such an misconception about atheists? Why do you all think that atheists are stupid or that they are ignorant or evil? They are greater believers of divinity that you can possibly be. Because they believe in Divinity within. They don't think that God is superior or inferior to them. And hence they don't chant mantras to 'please' God and secure a place in heaven.

They believe that God is another facet of their own existence - not physical existence, but the incomprehensible existence of their soul. In Shaivism, there's a phrase - Ekamevam Advitiam which translates to 'I am One without a second'. That's what atheism is all about. I read the One-electron theory and then this phrase seemed to make more sense to me. There is only One soul in this entire universe which moves at superluminous speed and hence its omnipresent. Its the soul that you have in yourself and its the same one which I have in me. There wasn't a time when I (and you) wasn't there and there will never come a time when I (and you) would not be there. We were, we are and we shall remain. Neither I nor you are created or destroyed. Birth and death are merely a process in which We change shapes.

Arjun asked Krishna, What is the difference between you and me?
Krishna replied, I and you are one and the same. Together we have made infinite journeys and shall continue to do so without a pause. The only difference lies in the fact that while you forget your previous journeys when you set upon a new one, I remember all my past adventures...

One who isn't aware of his own existence is Nara and one who's completely aware of his own existence is Narayana. That's what spiritualism is all about - knowing of one's own existence.

Originally posted by: Darklord_Rehan

@.Doe - Why do you have such an misconception about atheists? Why do you all think that atheists are stupid or that they are ignorant or evil? They are greater believers of divinity that you can possibly be. Because they believe in Divinity within. They don't think that God is superior or inferior to them. And hence they don't chant mantras to 'please' God and secure a place in heaven.

Does 'GOD'! really exists?

First of all, before you even ask the question, decide whether or not you're really willing to accept the answer...

As stated here are a few observations to consider as you begin your search for an objective answer:

• Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.
• Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer.
• Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?
• The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and what purpose do they serve?
• Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?
• People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?

Originally posted by: .Doe.

Well, you did give options as to what was a miracle. But you never answered the question. So my belief still stands. There is no question of being afraid then ;)

And as to what God is, it's a very personal question. What you think of God may or may not be what the other person thinks of Him.

I don't believe in miracles. I think if we apply ourselves we can gain a better understanding of things no matter how baffling they are. If I attributed everything I don't understand to God's miracle, then I would be turning my back on the very opportunities presented before me to learn and understand. I hope that answers your question on miracles.

Since there is nothing to fear, tell me some things. How would you define God and miracles, what do they mean to you? Why do you let things just be? What makes you dead sure that you know God? Are you sure beyond reasonable doubt? You believe in God and creation (at least your posts seem to state so)? What have you done to understand what you believe? What do you do if beliefs are disproven by facts – deny the facts, reconcile facts and beliefs or try to make amends?

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Pardon me but

I bet the holy books were also written by someone who never knew or saw God say let there be light. We simply furthered an assumption of God, everyone is believing one person who spoke to a burning bush or had magical dreams and no one actually confirmed if they were smoking something or on hallucinogens.

At least the hypothesis have a testing process, to be tested for truth, validity and rationality. Unfortunately, religion and faith refuses to go through a process to test for truth, validity and rationality.

Exactly..People believe in Holy Books as ultimate truth - but who wrote all these holy books? Did God write them? These scriptures were written by men who claimed themselves to be God's representative. Did anyone question their veracity? And I am sure, even if people did, they were silenced saying that God's dictate is above reasons and questions. Atleast scientists have a concrete argument to back their hypothesis.

@Bold - Actually, original Indian religions were never of this sort. Vedanta was based on four pillars - 1. Gyan (knowledge) 2. Dhyan (concentration) 3. Mimansa (Debate) 4. Karma (action).
Vedic scholars never asked anyone to believe whatever written in scriptures as supreme. They valued reasons and logic above everything else. In ancient India, both Astiks and Nastiks co-existed while in other parts of the world atheists were considered demon-ish or evil. People like Mahavir, Buddha and the Charvakas were hardcore atheists and yet they were more popular than main-stream Vedic Brahmins. No educated Indian, be it Vedic theists or Non-vedic atheists, called themselves 'God fearing' people.

Its only in medieval Puranic age, Gods and their avatars came into existence and this artificial 'bhakti' concept was introduced where man has to worship and please God to gain his favour and secure heaven. Religion became dictatorial, reasons and debates were censured by Brahmins and atheism was perceived to be crime against God.