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Sabhayata

@Sabhayata

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 10 years ago

#81

Originally posted by: amritat

We need one person here...right now...that is Sabhayata...
Where is our citation queen? I really need some crucial citations here to prove my point...n I am too lazy to search for them in KMG amongst bulls n lions... 😆

Just read some posts here n but will reply after going back home...

Amrita which citations you want?Sorry lazy to read the entire thread just read last few pages

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#82

No Sabhayata. The post below the one you quoted has the citation with Arjun questioning his stance. He clearly expresses his feeling that G is prowar.

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Diala D

@...Diala...

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#83

Originally posted by: amritat

Sabhayata...🤗

I need your help...Can u please give me the citation of Kunti sending spies to find out where Karna had ended up...after she floated him? Noone seems to believe me...😭

Amrita.. Don't cry baby.. Geetha is fine now.. Kunti did get to know from spies about karna being brought up as eldest son of adiratha.. But that also clears that she found that out when adiratha n Radha had their bio sons.. Hence it is wrong to say that she sent spies behind the baby to ensure that he reaches safe hands.. Sorry if no one said so 😉😆

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 10 years ago

#84

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Amrita which citations you want?Sorry lazy to read the entire thread just read last few pages

Kunti sending spies to fond out where Karna had ended up...right after she floats him...

And could u also PM me Karna's funeral citation...I had a doubt regarding that...Please PM me that...😊

Edited by amritat - 10 years ago

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 10 years ago

#85

Originally posted by: ...Diala...

Amrita.. Don't cry baby.. Geetha is fine now.. Kunti did get to know from spies about karna being brought up as eldest son of adiratha.. But that also clears that she found that out when adiratha n Radha had their bio sons.. Hence it is wrong to say that she sent spies behind the baby to ensure that he reaches safe hands.. Sorry if no one said so 😉😆

Geeta might be fine, but I have some doubts, n hence asking for the citations...😆
And thank you for enlightening me with your immense knowledge...🤗

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Sabhayata

@Sabhayata

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 10 years ago

#86

Originally posted by: AnuMP
Jamy.
In the DS, even her opponents acknowledge Draupadi got her 5 useless hubbies out of the hole they were in.

I believe it was Karna who said that she was the boat which rescued them. Without her they would have remained slaves. She got back their entire empire too, only to lose it again because of Yudhi.

Dury sends Uluka to YBANS and says the same thing to Yudhi during Udtiga Parva that Draupadi rescued them. And that Yudhi didn't deserve the empire.

I have a list of citations which I can post in a bit which actually says Draupadi did manage the economy of the Empire which stretched from sea to shining sea.

Her conversations with Krishna in Kamyaka had the effect if lighting a fire under him and they were ready to go.to war right then and there, while G promised her large scale destruction. And this, after his student Arjun calmed him down.

In AV, she goes to Bheem and gives HIM a version of Geeta. And no, she didn't seduce him into it, unlike what is usually thought. Keechak dies.

In Udyoga Parva again, while readers find it clear that Krishna wanted war, the participants didnt know. Panchali has no qualms about lecturing him that he will be sinning if he forgives the Kauravas for continual wrongdoing (not sure what the sin is here). Again he promises her death and destruction.

Without Panchali, the Pandavas would have remained slaves even if they had somehow managed to.come out of the wilderness and build an empire. Without her, they would have remained in exile. Without her, there would have been no Jaya.

Of course she is the central character driving the story.

Nopes sorry Anu dont agree

While i do agree that she is the most faultless character in the entire epic like i cant associate any major wrong doing whith her.But she is not the only central character in the epic and she isnt the only hero

MB has many characters and all are central and heroic in their own way and Drau is one of them .The actions and reactions and motivations of all these character's drive the story not only Drau's
She is one of the central character's not the only one

Yes she was intelligent and smart and yes she did save pandavs sin DS there is no doubt

Regarding Kamyaka van yes krishna ji does promise her destruction of those who harmed her but in Udyoga parva in beginning he forgets all that and wants peace

What is AV?In all versions i read she goes to Bhima and cries about all her misfortunes that is all

In udyoga parva even after promising Drau a second time he does what Yudi wants and not Drau.He goes with the peace proposal yet again and he clealry tells Drau that Dhrit son's swill be punished only if they dont agree to his proposal

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Sabhayata

@Sabhayata

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 10 years ago

#87

Originally posted by: AnuMP
No Sabhayata. The post below the one you quoted has the citation with Arjun questioning his stance. He clearly expresses his feeling that G is prowar.

Anu that is why i said read the start of Udyoga parva

the incident that you are quoting from is towards the end when two peace nego have already failed.In the start when Drupad's envoy take the peace proopsal even Krishna ji wants peace

Edited by Sabhayata - 10 years ago

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Chiillii

@Chiillii

Navigator

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#88

I was trying to be a mute spectator but had to chip in. Vyasa was a man, so we're every suta and disciple who narrated Mahabharata since beginning. The society was patriarchal then and it is patriarchal now. And why only men, most women I know are patriarchal in their mindset.

So to sum up only 3 points

A 13 year old adopted unmarried child who doesn't have the knowledge, perspective or understanding of implications of her action hence out of fear of society abandons the child is a heartless vamp but the adult father, who also happens to be a god is well a god worth worship

Dasharath with his thousands of wives, vichitravirya, Pandu, and everybody else (even Karna according to some tales) all the Pandavas are good guys and perfectly deserving of respect but if Draupadi chooses to marry 5 men either she is a prostitute or a victim of Kunti and Yudhishtir, circumstances. Basically a woman has no right to choose 5 good men has husbands. But men can happily go and marry any and as many damsels as they want

Bheeshma, drona, Vidur, Dhritarashtra, Bheem calling Karna sutaputra is not wrong but Panchali dares so it's an insult and hence she has to be disrobed.and on top of that a statement like what is wrong in Draupadi feeling attraction for Karna the guy who ordered her assault. It's perfectly normal, he is a tragic hero,

Only tragic heroes in Mahabharata were Amba, Gandhari, Kunti, Draupadi and Uttara. No one else deserves that respect as per me. A hero is not who acts or guides a story . a hero is someone who faces the consequences of others actions with dignity. a hero is someone who refuses to be a victim, and does their karma instead of blaming destiny for their sufferring

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#89

Ok. Lunch break time.

Panchali was an ordinary woman?

Let's compare shall we?

Karna, yes he was given up by his mother. Had a happy childhood and family life. The only tragedy was that because his caste was not known he didn't the ultimate astra. He had a kingdom, was friends with kings. His bio Mom destroyed his peace of mind.

His loyalty to Dury was commendable but then Dury did nothing to betray it, did he?

Daan veer business. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he start that as penance to defeat Arjun?

In addition to this he aided and abetted Dury in his schemes to kill his cousins.

He instigated a.brutal assault and NEAR RAPE on a woman.

During the war, he promises to give his WIVES AND CHILDREN to anyone who helps him locate Arjun🤢

Panchali- since I don't believe she popped out of fire, she too was plucked from her home.

Married to 5.

Sent to a wilderness which she had a great part in building into an empire.

Ran the economy of the empire which ran from east to west (current politicians can learn from her)

Lost said empire due to incompetent and irresponsible husband

Assaulted and nearly raped

Gained it back

Rescued hubbies

Showed extreme diplomacy in DS where she clearly says she will not cast blame on U though she during her convo with Bheem in Matsya does just that.

Exiled

War and lost her children

Still forgave Ashwatthama

Through it all, in spite of being let down time and again, she remained faithful to husbands, some of whom at best can be described as waste of space.

How can people who see greatness in Karna's loyalty which was returned in full measure refuse to see Panchali's loyalty which stayed to the end in spite of it being completely undeserved.

How can people who see greatness in Karna's daan, not see Panchali's greatness when she says not a word during the entire peace process and only speaks up when even the 5 villages proposal is rejected?

And the disheartening thing is that it is mostly women! Someday someone should do a psychological study on why women of today will profess admiration for a man who did many wrong thing in addition to some good things, but will ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to acknowledge a woman's greatness.That says more about the said women and their small mindedness than about Panchali.

Since people felt free to call Panchali ordinary, I shall feel free to state this.

If we consider his part in DS an interpolation, Karna is a side character in MB till the war. His part in MB changed absolutely nothing. Without him, the war would have ended 3 days sooner, that's it. No one important would have been spared by his absence.

His character may have popularity and sympathy, but he remains a side character.

He was an ordinary man who never thought beyond his own personal wants

Edited by AnuMP - 10 years ago

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Sabhayata

@Sabhayata

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 10 years ago

#90

@Anu:This is the citation i am talking about at start of Udyoga parva

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05001.htm

To summarize krishna talks about how Yudi was deceitfully robbed of his kingdom and all the harships Yudi faced. The he says they need to think of a way that is beneficial to both pandavs and kauravas.Then krishna ji says that they must send an envoy and ask Dury to return half kingdom

Both Satyaki and Drupad are pro war

And then Krishna ji says to Drupad that they must do the right thing and send a peace envoy to return the kindom in case Dury doesn't agree then war would happen

So even krishna ji first wanted peace not war

Edited by Sabhayata - 10 years ago

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