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cts22

@cts22

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+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#71

Unlike other stories Mahabharat is not about heroes and villains or anti heroes

or heroes defeating villains

Everyone is grey and complex, of course some are more darker than the others.

Draupadi is a very amazing character, extremely beautiful, smart and intelligentthough she was a queen, but she did not have that much influence to change anything.

Kunti and even Karna could have actually stopped the war than any other character.(Not bringing Krishna into this).

In fact among the central characters she was the least grey character but suffered the maximum humiliation and sorrow.

I don't think Kunti had spies, Karna was the son of Sun, she prayed to the Sun and floated him in the river with confidence that his father will look after him.

If you go by this logic the sun god did actually protect him, he probably did not play a paternal role but actually did warn him not to give his kavach and kundal and asked him to join the pandavas.

In fact both did Kunti and Surya did not bring Karna up or save him from any humiliation from society, but they both did not want him to die either.

It probably would have benefited Karna if they had talked and adviced him way before than just before the war.

Edited by cts22 - 10 years ago

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#72

Also remember VERBAL EXERCISES 😆

Where does it say Yudhi instructed her on what to argue and how to get them out.

If that part is not a verbal exercise to minimize Panchali' s role as the HERO, I don't know what is.😆

What he instructed her to do was patently diagusting.

He told her to come there barely clad 🤢

Her arguments were hers, the decisions on which boons to ask where hers.

Yudhi did not have brains enough to instruct anyone. He was the same dude who lost the empire yet agian, after she regained it!

He did have a native cunning. Not the same as brains.

Panchali was both boat and driver. If Kauravas, Karna and the poet Vyasa could acknowledge it, I am curious as to the reasons why you will not acknowledge it.

Edited by AnuMP - 10 years ago

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#73

If I continue on IF today, I am going to get fired from my job😆.

Will be back tonight

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#74

@CTS She was not JUST the Queen.

She also managed the conomy for the empire and was Citizen Liaison

The entire Drau Satya convo

This is Dury saying this about Panchali

And, O king, Yajnaseni, without having eaten herself, daily seeth whether everybody, including even the deformed and the dwarfs, hath eaten or not.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m02/m02051.htm

And I never thought I would quote this😆. Yudhi describes Panchali's charms in the DS

"Yudhishthira said,--'With Draupadi as stake, ... Possessed of every accomplishment and compassionate and sweet-speeched, she is such a woman as a man may desire for wife in respect of her fitness for the acquisition of virtue and pleasure and wealth.Retiring to bed last and waking up first, she looketh after all down to the cowherds and the shepherds. ..."

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m02/m02064.htm

So there you go, from Yudhi and Dury, she had a talent for management and wealth. The knowledge of law and ethics, skills of diplomacy and negotiation and the stomach to order an execution, she exhibited herself.

All of Drau-Satya convo is otherwise seen in the epic, even if the convo itself was an interpolation

And this of course, from the Jyeshtest

"Karna said,--'We have never heard of such an act (as this one of Draupadi), performed by any of the women noted in this world for their beauty. When the sons of both Pandu and Dhritarashtra were excited with wrath, this Draupadi became unto the sons of Pandu as their salvation. Indeed the princess of Panchala, becoming as a boat unto the sons of Pandu who were sinking in a boatless ocean of distress, hath brought them in safety to the shore."

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m02/m02071.htm

This is Vidur at the beginning of exile to Yudhi, although I think 'economy' here means spending prudently (COO rather than CFO)

"Dhananjaya is ever victorious in battle; Bhimasena is the slayer of foes; Nakula is the gatherer of wealth; Sahadeva hath administrative talents, Dhaumya is the foremost of all conversant with the vedas; and the well-behaved Draupadi is conversant with virtue and economy".

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m02/m02077.htm

Edited by AnuMP - 10 years ago

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 10 years ago

#75

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra

I DO believe Draupadi was never wrong. Perhaps she is the only completely right character related to main thread of MB. I also have no doubt on citations. I know what Jaya is. GOING STRICTLY BY CITATIONS, the only doubt about IB' saying Drau being a hero of MB is how do you call a character the central chracter or hero of the story when he/she has no visible, at least one scene that he/she influenced so much to divert whole story? I don't find any such scenes that involves Draupadi to that extent. Except Dyuta Sabha, Draupadi has no control over any event that happened in Mahabharata. And in DS also, it is difficult to believe she acted upon her instinct/intelligence when it is clear written she was asked by Yudhi to do as he said. I do not mean Draupadi was some fool or some idiot. She cartainly was intellegent. Her talks with Yudhi in Kamyaka vana proves the sheer brilliance of her intelligemce & knowledge. Still, she had no control over anything that happened. So how could you call her the HERO of the story? I am not being anti feminist here. Call Kunti the Hero - I agree. She certainly controlled most of events. But the way Draupadi is being described in Mahabharata, (not the Draupadi of my imaginations, please note), she is nothing than an ouspoken, traditional, obedient, wife to five men. --- That is why I always believe Draupadi was something else, one of the best Vyasa wrote but later editors edited away as they could not concieve the excellancy of a woman --- But lets strictly go by the book - she was NO hero.

Jamy, may I say this, that I do agree with you about Draupadi, on many things you said.
While I agree with Anu about Draupadi's strength as a character, I agree with you on the fact, that Draupadi was not the hero...

I think I had said this before, and I am saying this now...and I dont mean to offend any one...
Why do we tend to see Mahabharat through the glasses of ONE character?
Why do some people consider Karna as THE REAL HERO of Mahabharat? Or Arjun the only hero? Or Draupadi the hero? Is it really difficult to believe that Mahabharat is like a slice of life, veiled in divinity and spirituality...where NOBODY is the hero...maybe Lord Krishna was, if we consider him GOD, but noone else qualifies as the HERO of Mahabharat...

Mahabharat is all about protagonists...Since the story was narrated to Janmejaya, the Pandavas were treated as the protagonist...had it been the other way round, then the Kauravas had been the protagonist...

It is not completely true that Draupadi had no control over anything, bcoz be it destiny or anything else, it was with Draupadi's entry into the family, that the story takes a different turn...but like you said Draupadi did not drive everything which most would like to believe.
This is y I detest it, when i hear people say 'Draupadi caused the war?' Really? 😡
Can so much bloodshed be the making of one person, who was neither a warrior nor an Emperor?

And yes, Kunti was a mastermind in most cases...

Draupadi's sharing...her idea...which made Yudisthir, the future king, the son-in-law of a powerful King...certainly a brilliant move.
Bhima's marriage to Hidimba was another move...Indeed Ghatotkach served them later with his life...
Her decisions practically dominated Karna's life...

So, ya...she was a driving force...where as Draupadi's greatness lies elsewhere...

Draupadi's greatness does not lie in being the 'hero' of Mahabharat...her greatness lies in the fact that she did things at a time, which usually women of her time never thought of doing...

Openly rejecting a King(though I believe it's an interpolation)
Polyandry
Being the Empress...and finance minister of a powerful state, and also being trained in law...n running a Grievance Redressal thread.
Saving her husbands from disaster...though it was Yudisthir's idea, she deserves credit for making it happen...
Lecturing her husbands on what is right and wat is wrong...something which women of that time rarely did...like you mentioned, her speech at Vana Parva speaks volumes of her intellect. She corrected her husbands, and proved it that she was way ahead of her time.

She was forthright to an extent of being flawed, way ahead in her intellect, and yes, she played a very important part in her husbands' life...Even if Jaya had happened without her, the Pandavas would not have been able to make their reentry in Hastinapur, had she not been their wife, and the Panchalas not been their ally...So, it's in these points and probably some more(which I have missed) where lies her greatness...For that she doesn't need to be the HERO...

So, yes, I completely agree with you...she was not the hero of the epic...Nor was any other character...She did not have any control over the situation, but I disagree on the bold part. Yes, she was an outspoken wife, who did obey and serve her husbands, but that was not all she was.

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GEETHA KRISHNAN

@KURT15

Inactive

Posted: 10 years ago

#76

Originally posted by: riti4u

Where are thou...? Look this lil child of yours is having such a cruel mom.. which even can shame Cindrella's step mom...

Vats.., open your eyes... I am here... Why to worry when the real mommy is here...😎

Yes!! Make way for the real mommy!! 🥳

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GEETHA KRISHNAN

@KURT15

Inactive

Posted: 10 years ago

#77

Originally posted by: ...Diala...

appreciation thread.. applauding thread.. acknowledging thread.. awww thread... aahaaa thread... 😳😳😳

Don't forget argument thread😆.. and we are already aawwing and aahaaing here!! 🤣

Edited by KURT15 - 10 years ago

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Sabhayata

@Sabhayata

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 10 years ago

#78

what is happening in this serial havent seen for long

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 10 years ago

#79

Originally posted by: Sabhayata
what is happening in this serial havent seen for long

Sabhayata...🤗

I need your help...Can u please give me the citation of Kunti sending spies to find out where Karna had ended up...after she floated him? Noone seems to believe me...😭

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Sabhayata

@Sabhayata

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 10 years ago

#80

Originally posted by: AnuMP

That writing project had me going line by line through KMG and CE

BOTH wanted war. Panchali was more direct and upfront about it. And as she clearly says here, it was a matter of allowing 'sin' to go on. Not personal vengeance

Nopes
Krishna ji diddnt always want war

Read Udyoga parva from the start.Krihsna ji's lecture starts with wanting peace not war.Only after trying twice for peace when negotiations fail he starts to talk about war

Drau wanted justice not doubt.Yes she does say the sin part but she says other things as well why ignore that.Doesn't she say that she wants Dushy to die a horrible death,doesn't she remind the entire court and krishna ji how Dushy treated her,doesn't she say that if not her husband her son's will avenge her.She clearly uses the word avenge

And to make it clear i dont find anything wrong in her wanting justice .

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