DOTW - Support Your Mentor - Bappi Lahiri - Page 3

Originally posted by: atria

Very good points, shadytown.

Just to reinforce your last point--

Right now since the decisions are taken by the Mahaguru, support to the contestants may not matter. Also, except for the Koyel incident, Bappida has been fortunate in that his contestants have not been discussed as much as the others. But once the public voting begins, the mentors will become more competitive. If Bappida's contestants pose a threat to the other gharanas, they will be targetted by the mentors. This has happened before in C05, it is bound to happen here also. At such times, it will be absolutely vital that he stand up for his contestants. It was commonly believed in C05 that HR was interested in promoting only Vineet, and neglected Ujjaini and Paresh. The result-- Vineet went to the finals, the others were eliminated long before. ID's walkout in support of Debojeet resulted in his topping the votings in the very next episode. If Bappida wants his contestants to advance, he has to show strong support to them. He can remain a polite and aloof judge only so long.

So Bhappi Da should stage a walkout?😆...for what...not loosing contestants of his gharana?😆

Originally posted by: ChameliKaYaar

So Bhappi Da should stage a walkout?😆...for what...not loosing contestants of his gharana?😆

It is stated that Bappida's silence and lack of support for the contestants of his gharana during the time of controversy negatively affects their image in the Public eye. I strongly disagree with this statement!

Firstly, whenever a contestant is critiqued, a mentor's silence does not imply lack of support. Bappida has always respected the opinions of others when he feels those opinions are correct. Bappida's silence is not an act of cowardice or an act of steering away from controversy. It is a demonstration of accepting constructive criticism – valid and well reasoned opinions which can help his contestants improve as singers. For instance, when Bappida's contestants did not get a direct entry into the next round due to their performances, he did not argue vehemently on their behalf. Instead he coached them personally, grooming their voices until they shone in the next round! As a result, so far only one contestant of his has been eliminated in SRGMP C-2007.

Moreover, the way a child looks up to a parent, a contestant looks up to his or her mentor. Bappida's contestants emulated their mentor and accepted criticisms from other mentors with grace, which demonstrates good sporting spirit. If there is any impact on their image at all, it is positive. Furthermore, some contestants do not need verbal "support"; they are smart and can create their own image.

For instance: Sikandar Ali from Pakistan displayed himself as a combination of good singing plus wit with an upbeat performance of "Inteha ho gayi" and a witty one-liner to Ismail Darbar's question of "Kaise ho?" Sikandar responded "Allah ki reham se maa ki dua se public ki demand se tip top!" Bappida said nothing and he did not need to. His contestants can shine on their own and with the help of Zee TV which shows regular clippings of their personal lives.

Secondly, if one studies Bappida's biography it is clear that he is an intelligent man who observes market trends and patterns. When he entered the field as a music director in the 1970s and tried composing regular Indian numbers, he got little success. However, he began to observe trends that were entering the market in the form of modern Western disco numbers in nightclubs. In the 1980s, he shot up the charts with many hits (albeit plagiarised) and earned the title of Disco King. He then went on a long sabbatical and burst back into the scene when music tastes changed once more with Taxi No 9211 in the 21^st century.

He is applying the same technique to SRGMP. "When you cannot say anything good, say nothing at all". Defending a contestant unfairly adds fuel to the fire and has a negative impact on the contestant's image in the short run. Remaining silent will result in the public eventually forgetting about that contestant and the contestant can re-emerge with a fresh start. In the long run, support or non-support from a mentor has no impact on an individual's image.

Although Bappida is allowing his contestants' voices to speak for themselves; he is not what one can simply call silent. He coaches them and he markets them with a diplomacy that is incorrectly termed as "non-support". For instance, when popular contestant Mauli Dave sang another item number in front of Asha Bhosle, he gently rebuked her saying that he did not want her singing only item songs. He then added that she would do well in slow, romantic songs and that he would give her songs to showcase her versatility. It was both criticism and compliment rolled in one!

Bappida does speak and he does support. One may feel that he is silent when compared to the more verbose Vishal-Shekhar, Himesh Reshammiya and Ismail Darbar. But, he uses his words wisely speaking only when necessary. After all, silence is golden. 😉

The remaining members of our Golden Trio - Prenz and Spian will be posting their points soon.

My points are in bold black

Originally posted by: shadyhtown

Tish dear.. hum chup ke nahi, saamne se vaar karte hain! Chalo main hi narial phodta hoon. 😛

Bappi Lahiri, as a mentor, needs to stand up for his gharana members. He needs to ensure that their flaws do not overshadow their plus points. His silence can hurt his shishyas.

Case in point - Koyal in the episode she was eliminated. She was criticized for her song selection (Rock me baby) and a comment was also passed on her dress sense by another mentor (Ismail Durbar).

Fault #1. Bappi da should a) have known what song she had selected, and b) advised her to choose a better song for that episode, seeing that Ghulam Ali saab and Asha ji were present.

Correction - We do not know if he knew about it. Perhaps he did and advised her against it, but Koyal insisted on singing this song. After all, even Asha sang so many bold songs in her career such as "Piya Tu". Who would know that she would react in such a way? Fault # 1 is merely an assumption, not a fact.

Fault #2. Assuming he did know about her song and he approved the song, he should have spoken up when she was being blamed, and said that he had indeed approved the song, and taken the responsibility upon himself, so to speak. He did not do that. Or he should have defended the song, and he did not do that either (Himesh did).

Since you are giving us an assumption again, I will look at this scene in two ways:

First - As I mentioned before, the song was most likely NOT approved by him and Koyal may have sung it herself. OR, Zee TV could have changed her song at the last minute without informing Bappida. Why should he support her when he doesn't support the choice of song?

Second - we all know that the episodes are edited. Himesh being the most outspoken and vocal out of the lot is given the most footage because he was defending his song. Even if Bappida spoke out for her, it was not "interesting enough" and probably edited.

Fault #3. When the Veerappan-esque music director was accusing Koyal of lying and saying that she had selected the song herself, he should have spoken up for her. He should have demanded that it be cleared once and for all who does the song selections. He did not do that (again Himesh did).

Again, remember who is most outspoken? Himesh often asks Aditya to keep quiet when he makes a point.

Fault #4. Bappi da should have stood up for Koyal when Ismail commented on her clothes. He should have brought up the fact that many singers (including one from Ismail's gharans in C2005 - Twinkle) had worn such clothes before, and nothing was said. Furthermore, such clothes were provided by the Zee creative team and hence deemed wearable. Also, he should have let Ismail know that his prerogative was only to comment on the singing aspect. He did not do any of that.

By keeping quiet in this scenario, and only showing a confused/embarassed/guilty look, it seemed that he could do nothing to save his gharana member. This reflected badly on Koyal, who came out of the episode looking like a girl who wore revealing clothes and sang risque songs - in short, a girl with loose morals. This was very unfortunate, and even if she had moved on to the next stage, this would have left a bad mark on her, as far as the public is concerned. Not to mention, it would have shaken her confidence.

Ok, suppose he HAD said something. What would have happened? Would Asha and Ghulam Ali change their decision to eliminate her? I doubt it.

Then the reaction of the public would have been the way they reacted towards Himesh and Vishal-Shekhar for promoting Mussarat and Irrfan respectively. They would call it aggressive promotion or hyping. It would have resulted in a bad image on the mentor and the remaining contestants.

It's clear that Bappi da has been very subdued in his reactions, whether it be praise when his contestant sings well, or keeping quiet when they are criticized. He needs to constantly let the public know how good his contestant is, or else, his gharana will be out soon in public voting rounds - as happened to JL in C2005.

You are underestimating Bappida. He will speak when it is necessary. His quiet praises for his contestants Mauli, Sunil and Sikandar makes it clear that he will up the ante when the voting begins. Right now it is Mahaguru choice round. They are not going to be influenced. Trying to influence them the way Himes and VS and Ismail tried to will not work.

Originally posted by: atria

Very good points, shadytown.

Just to reinforce your last point--

Right now since the decisions are taken by the Mahaguru, support to the contestants may not matter. Also, except for the Koyel incident, Bappida has been fortunate in that his contestants have not been discussed as much as the others. But once the public voting begins, the mentors will become more competitive. If Bappida's contestants pose a threat to the other gharanas, they will be targetted by the mentors. This has happened before in C05, it is bound to happen here also. At such times, it will be absolutely vital that he stand up for his contestants. It was commonly believed in C05 that HR was interested in promoting only Vineet, and neglected Ujjaini and Paresh. The result-- Vineet went to the finals, the others were eliminated long before. ID's walkout in support of Debojeet resulted in his topping the votings in the very next episode. If Bappida wants his contestants to advance, he has to show strong support to them. He can remain a polite and aloof judge only so long.

Since C-05 is being brought into the debate, let us look at the same scenario in a different way:

As you mentioned, A mentor's words about a contestant in public play an important role in building or breaking that contestant's image. If one takes the example of SRGMP Challenge 2005, Himesh Reshammiya played a major role in building his star contestant Vinit's image by making him don an array of different caps and mostly assigning him songs by Mohammed Rafi and Sonu Nigam. Himesh also used his oratorical skills to market Vinit to the audience by promising to tell them the name of Vinit's girlfriend if he won.

This had two major impacts. People were either swayed by Vinit's singing or highly put off by Himesh's rather aggressive propaganda, which included comparative advertising by taking quips at his rival mentors and their students. As a contestant, Vinit was not only judged by his singing, but also by his mentor's words.

Similarly, judge Adesh Shivastava also made caustic statements about votes coming in from Assam, a North Eastern state of India. He insinuated that the public was voting for contestants of their own regions without taking singing into consideration. This resulted in a heated debate in the media about whether one could say that when Assam was a part of India.

Arguably, the words of Himesh and Adesh opened a floodgate, resulting in an overflow of votes for the ultimate winner - Debojit from Ismail Darbar's gharana. Vinit and Adesh's star contestant Hemachandra got fewer votes after the incident took place. One cannot say if Vinit or Hemachandra could have won if their mentors had been more silent or diplomatic, but it is clear that there is a correlation between a mentor's words and the voting pattern.

Being the smart observer of trends that Bappida is, his silence is for a reason. However, he will not remain completely silent. History gives evidence to that. Historically Bappida has supported those contestants who he felt deserved a fair chance. For instance, in SRGMP L'il Champs, Diwakar was openly supported by Bappi Lahiri and his family against the comments of judges Alka and Abhijeet. During the final rounds, Bappida even became a mentor for Diwakar and personally took out time to coach the visually impaired boy.

Caustic remarks against another gharana's contestant will anger the public against the mentors, the way it angered the people from the North East.

In SRGMP Li'l Champs - when Abhijeet made sarcastic comments about visually impaired Diwakar's singing, who did the public support? Diwakar and Bappida! As the results show, Diwakar came 2nd and Sameer (under Abhijeet) came 3rd!

Originally posted by: T.

My points are in bold black

Originally posted by: T.

Since C-05 is being brought into the debate, let us look at the same scenario in a different way:

As you mentioned, A mentor's words about a contestant in public play an important role in building or breaking that contestant's image. If one takes the example of SRGMP Challenge 2005, Himesh Reshammiya played a major role in building his star contestant Vinit's image by making him don an array of different caps and mostly assigning him songs by Mohammed Rafi and Sonu Nigam. Himesh also used his oratorical skills to market Vinit to the audience by promising to tell them the name of Vinit's girlfriend if he won.

This had two major impacts. People were either swayed by Vinit's singing or highly put off by Himesh's rather aggressive propaganda, which included comparative advertising by taking quips at his rival mentors and their students. As a contestant, Vinit was not only judged by his singing, but also by his mentor's words.

Similarly, judge Adesh Shivastava also made caustic statements about votes coming in from Assam, a North Eastern state of India. He insinuated that the public was voting for contestants of their own regions without taking singing into consideration. This resulted in a heated debate in the media about whether one could say that when Assam was a part of India.

Arguably, the words of Himesh and Adesh opened a floodgate, resulting in an overflow of votes for the ultimate winner - Debojit from Ismail Darbar's gharana. Vinit and Adesh's star contestant Hemachandra got fewer votes after the incident took place. One cannot say if Vinit or Hemachandra could have won if their mentors had been more silent or diplomatic, but it is clear that there is a correlation between a mentor's words and the voting pattern.

Absolutely a mentors words afffects the voting patterns. But a mentors silence also affects the voting patterns. Again let me give the Jatin-Lalit example. Himesh and Aadesh at least managed to get their contestants to the finals, JL had to leave much before.

Being the smart observer of trends that Bappida is, his silence is for a reason. However, he will not remain completely silent. History gives evidence to that. Historically Bappida has supported those contestants who he felt deserved a fair chance. For instance, in SRGMP L'il Champs, Diwakar was openly supported by Bappi Lahiri and his family against the comments of judges Alka and Abhijeet. During the final rounds, Bappida even became a mentor for Diwakar and personally took out time to coach the visually impaired boy.

Caustic remarks against another gharana's contestant will anger the public against the mentors, the way it angered the people from the North East.

Again I agree with you. But aren't we getting away from the topic? When did I say he should say bad things about other contestants? I said he should support his own contestants. There's a big difference between the two. Remember when ID walked out and Debojeet went to meet him? Okay whether that was real or fake is a different question, but ID said I've always respected the other gharana contestants, never put them down, but I won't let the others put down my contestant either. So you needn't put down other contestants to support your own. And supporting your own contestant always works with the public.

In SRGMP Li'l Champs - when Abhijeet made sarcastic comments about visually impaired Diwakar's singing, who did the public support? Diwakar and Bappida! As the results show, Diwakar came 2nd and Sameer (under Abhijeet) came 3rd!

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5922_1604309,0087.htm

I will be only quoting the new arguments so that the judges can read through everything easily.

Originally posted by: atria

But you are also assuming that Bappida didn't support the choice of song. We don't know that, and given that he didn't say anything before or after she sang (Like Himesh said before Yoginder started singing), isn't it more fair to assume that he had full knowledge of what she was going to sing and supported it?

[/quote]

Actually, Himesh did not support Yogendra's song choice. In the 5th May 2007 episode, when Yogi sang "Humko deewana kar gaye", Himesh re-sang the song saying that the emotion of the song was missing. He also said that Yogi insisted on singing his song and he did not agree with his song choice.

So, it is not necessary that a mentor always supports a contestant's song choice.

[quote=atria]

It somehow seems like Bappida is going the Jatin-Lalit way. Their quiet praises could not save their best contestants (like Sharib) in the face of the aggressiveness of the other mentors. [/quote]

Correction. Jatin Lalit were not quiet mentors. In C-05 they were the only mentors who publicly went and fought with Khayyam about his judgement.

In fact, Khayyam asked "Why did you make me a judge?" in retaliation to their arguments. In C-05, Himesh's ROCK gharana was initially supported by public SMS votes (this is not the individual contestant voting which took place later).

The reason was that J-L were aggressive from the very beginning. They were rude and said that Joyeeta from Himesh's gharana sang like a "kothawali". Himesh did not defend Joyeeta at that point either or rather the more overbearing Jatin imposed his opinion on everyone.

The public did not like that and expressed themselves by voting for the ROCK gharana. The DUM gharana was always at the bottom of the public votes even when the mahagurus were judging.

[quote=atria]Besides, the other mentors are not trying to influence the mahagurus so much as the public, because some of these contestants can be brought back by Brahmastra later on, and they need to impress the public right now with their capabilities. Lots of people may vote for Sarika later on, but after what happened, Koyel stands hardly any chance of coming back.

Joyeeta came back in the Bramhastra as well. Did the "kothawali" comment affect Joyeeta's image and made her sound like a floozy to the public?

The answer is NO. In fact, there were people who sympathized with her.

The public finally voted based on her comments to Salman Khan and her own singing compared to the competition - Ujjaini was better that day.

She also came back in SRGMP EMET and survived a few rounds. The reason she did not win was not because of the "kothawali" comment by Jatin ages ago. It was because of her own lackluster performance.