WHY RIYAAZ? - Page 6

Chat bhai,

There are some that feel life is too short for Riyaz and try to rationalize that with Japanese adages relating to laziness.

The Western music has notation that people have in front of them in symphonies while performing. Even in short performances or recitals the notation is right in fromt of the performer. Not so in Indian classical music.

Also to be able to play based on the notations you should know where the notes appear.

If you listened to a rendering of Violin by Yehudi Menuhin and Dr. L. Subrmaniam you would understand.

Now you are hung up on:
- too much of Riyaaz
- repetitive and monotonous nature of Riyaaz
- contribution of Riyaaz to the success of a person or more aptly 99% persipiration & 1% inspiration

It is difficult to quantify what contributes to a person's success as an artist.

Not all the sons of our maestros perform as good as their fathers. Vikku Vinayakram plays Ghatam, but his son performs on the Kanjira. Anoushka (Pt. Ravi Shankar's daughter) has a long way to go but she is not as prodigal as Zakhirji is. How about U Srinivas (Mandolin), Rimpa Shiv (Tabla). They do not have famous/ popular parents.

I can go on with examples where geneology doesn't come in with full force.

Changing the mode, western musicians are able to play with Indian musicians only if they have mastered their gig and need no notation. George Brooks (saxophonist), for instance. Also western music has a different approach.

Creativity comes only after you have attained proficiency. It does not come with inheriting a legacy.
Maybe we should quantify the level of creativity.

Originally posted by: Surtaal

Chat bhai,

There are some that feel life is too short for Riyaz and try to rationalize that with Japanese adages relating to laziness.

The Western music has notation that people have in front of them in symphonies while performing. Even in short performances or recitals the notation is right in fromt of the performer. Not so in Indian classical music.

Also to be able to play based on the notations you should know where the notes appear.

If you listened to a rendering of Violin by Yehudi Menuhin and Dr. L. Subrmaniam you would understand.

Now you are hung up on:
- too much of Riyaaz
- repetitive and monotonous nature of Riyaaz
- contribution of Riyaaz to the success of a person or more aptly 99% persipiration & 1% inspiration

It is difficult to quantify what contributes to a person's success as an artist.

Not all the sons of our maestros perform as good as their fathers. Vikku Vinayakram plays Ghatam, but his son performs on the Kanjira. Anoushka (Pt. Ravi Shankar's daughter) has a long way to go but she is not as prodigal as Zakhirji is. How about U Srinivas (Mandolin), Rimpa Shiv (Tabla). They do not have famous/ popular parents.

I can go on with examples where geneology doesn't come in with full force.

Changing the mode, western musicians are able to play with Indian musicians only if they have mastered their gig and need no notation. George Brooks (saxophonist), for instance. Also western music has a different approach.

Creativity comes only after you have attained proficiency. It does not come with inheriting a legacy.
Maybe we should quantify the level of creativity.

re the Japanese adage, i think they were quite serious. they were personally very hard-working but seemed to have a grudging admiration for folks who did not seem to work hard. they were not joking!

the references on how hard indian music is to learn is somewhat irrelevant to my mind. excuse me here, but to be crass, it would be hard for a westerner to also cobble together a shoe. does that make cobbling shoes a worthwhile pursuit?

yaar, these guys have so many creative and productivity enhancing techniques in every area that it is not even funny. if you hunt for creativity techniques in google etc i am certain you'll find entire listings of these techniques. i never encountered any of those in all my years back home.

from my colleagues, i also hear of how detailed they get even in matters of evaluating elementary school kids. there are areas of development they talk about that a lot of us probably had no idea of when we were growing up. it's very easy to dismiss other cultures or systems as inferior, but reality is that there is often a lot to learn...

look, as an indian, i'd be happy to know that we have it all perfect. but am afraid i dont necessarily see it tat way

as for "Creativity comes only after you have attained proficiency. It does not come with inheriting a legacy.
Maybe we should quantify the level of creativity.",

haven't i been saying the same thing? no problem with proficiency. but a problem with too much riyaaz after one has attained proficiency. do read my lengthy post, you'll find my reasons and my position there.

as for measuring creativity, that's a subject of ongoing research in different fields by different researchers here. you'll also find that in google...

Example of creativity after Riyaaz
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2006/04/07/stories/200 6040701720300.htm
Rhythmic beats

GUDIPOODI SRIHARI

Ugadi celebrations had a bumpy start, but the ensuing concerts were a treat to music lovers.

Yella brought into view a total of nine mridangams, each tuned for a particular note.


VIRTUOSO PERFORMANCE Yella Venkateswara Rao thumps a rhythm on his mridangam

Any good activity begun on the day of Ugadi is bound to keep you in good cheer throughout the year, our elders tell us. Hence, we are urged to do good things. Well, it was definitely a good move that the revamped Ravindra Bharati was opened on Ugadi by Chief Minister Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy in the company of Minister for Culture, M. Satyanarayana Rao.

But amidst all the festive spirit, the man who made news was Mangalampalli Balamuralikrishna. It was publicised that the renowned singer would perform for the programme titled Murali, Swara Vasantham. Satyanarayana Rao was trying to bring Balamurali to Hyderabad for this event. But there appeared to be a miss between the cup and the lip. The buzz was that Balamurali was travelling to a Gulf nation for a programme. So, his slot was filled, rather hurriedly, by renowned mridanga vidwan Yella Venkateswara Rao. His solo play of a different kind was a treat. Malladi Chandrasekhara Sastry's Panchanga Sravanam and a poetic symposium by some known scholars of the twin cities marked the Ugadi special event.

Yella Venkateswara Rao, who headed the music faculty of Telugu university until recently and is among the senior artistes of All India Radio, evolved some musical themes for his percussion show in his attempt to give solo status to mridangam. One of them was to give picture of raga and also a kriti in it. For this purpose, he brought into view a total of nine mridangams, each tuned for a particular note. His mridangam performance proved to be a big draw. The theatre was filled to the brim with festival audience.

He came up with Keeravani raga structure, set in Adi Thalam, Madhya Laya. He had keyboard and flute support. Ramana Murthy on the ghatam and Ghantasala Satya Sai on the morsing also accompanied him. Yella also added a bit of his own Chollu Kattu (rhythmic syllables) while playing the mridangam. He drew repeated applause for this exercise. The audience experienced a different kind of 'sound and fury', with Yella accelerating rhythm. Yella brought into view a total of nine mridangams, each tuned for a particular note.

Nw this is Sur and Taal combined. Playing a Raag using Percussion instruments.

I think we should start another post : What is Creativity??

"It does not come with inheriting a legacy."

yes, it's not a sufficient condition. but then neither is strenuous riyaaz. but legacy can help, cant it? it does give u a platform to start from. what one makes of it then is subject to other factors. do u think abhishek bachchan cld have afforded to have had the umpteen tries and flops he had? different matter that today he is on his way. but if he'd been anyone else, he'd have been run out a long time ago.

as to why certain sons didn't make it, let's take the example of film stars. rajender kumar was an actor some of us cldn't stand. his son gaurav kumar was a more natural actor. yet he flopped, right? perhaps because the times had changed. and i daresay if rajender kumar had tried getting established in the new era, he wldnt have even gotten off the starting black. dont attribute everything to genius. there is a lot of luck and timing involved in things as well.

Originally posted by: Surtaal

I think we should start another post : What is Creativity??

great idea. maybe we'll get all the riyaaz folks to contribute most strongly here?😆😆😆

sarcasm aside, it is a great idea. we can all learn from different viewpoints... at least i would, dont know about the others😆😆😆

am waiting for Punjini to strike... looks like the calm before the storm 😆

Originally posted by: Surtaal

I think we should start another post : What is
Creativity??

👏 👏 👏

Exactly - the issue underlying is is exactly that - what constitutes artistic
creativity?

My hunch is there is a cultural difference between India and Western
culture
on this question.

There is 1 quesiton I want to ask you on riyaaz - is riyaaz a form of
sadhana?

======
aside to cb: in my mind the question is not - which is superior? that
doesn;t interest me so much for the simple that i can't stop being indian
even if the western culture is better... what i am interested in is
understanding the difference, (assuming my hunch is right).

yaar, another thing, in any large sample size, we can be sure to find "accidents". consider the following example- someone can be totally clueless about stocks, having just a 50% probabibility of winning or losing money any year. yet, he/ she has a 1 divided by 2 to the power of 10 probability of making money 10 years in a row. in a population of just 10,000 such dim-wits, we'd then expect to find 10 people like him who make money every year. so is he really smart? no! he is just one of the 10 lottery-ticket holders we'd expect to have in a sample of 10,000.

ditto perhaps for the riyaaz folks. a thousand people start off on the riyaaz tracks every year. a few make it. an accident waiting to happen? lucky lottery winners?