The hands you take and the hands you leave Part 63-Updated page 149 - Page 91

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BillyJean. thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

One thing I have to tell. There was only one difference between Arjuna, Karna or Ekalavya whatever it is. For Arjuna the glass was half full, while for others it was half empty. We always say this person suffered for Arjuna, this person suffered for Arjuna what is so great about Arjuna. Nothing, only the attitude.

Life was not easy for him. He was a prince born in a jungle. He won the hand of a woman in swayamvar whom his mother asked to share between 4 of his brothers. Did Karna shared his wife. Answer is no. He didnt.
He was made a slave by his elder brother. His friend told him to choose between his power and himself. His friend who is called Narayan didnt protect the child he loved so much who was brutally killed in Chakravyuha.

Did Arjuna complain, did he hate kunti, did he hate Yudhi, did he question Krishna. Answer is no. He took life the way it was, he accepted what life gave him. When life threw stone at him, instead of hitting back he caught it. He became the fragrance of Lord Krishna because of whom Bhagavad Gita happened. He asked Lord direction when he was in pain. He followed the direction. He owned up his actions. It was not the situation that defined him, he defined the situation.

Karna, Ekalavya was always victims the world saw. But they never saw Arjun the husband who was a victim, Arjun the brother who was a victim, Arjun the son who was a victim, because he never told sob stories, he masked it with a smile. To see Arjun as victim, Abhi had to die.


You always have the path of using the fire to burn others or become a lamp, whatever situation you are in. You can committ a mistake but defining your circumstance to support a crime doesnt really make you a victim. Then the victim becomes the criminal.

People easily relate to sob stories because that is what 99% people do. Because of x,y,z circumstances I did certain things. I am not bad. It is the remaining 1% those fighters, those real victims, those many times are bad in front of the society who really the need the support because they dont know how to tell they are victims or present a sob story.

This is my perspective, people can make many perspective out of MB. For me I had always followed glass is half full attitude of Arjun.


I have been a silent stalker of this thread!😆 Must say I thoroughly enjoy the show and the different perspectives on this thread a lot! Your post forced me out of my silent stalking mode😆
I completely agree with every word you have written. Especially loved the bold part of your post! 👏For this precise reason I do not like Karna in MB at all. All along I have heard how bad of a deal he got, how he never got a chance and how his circumstances forced him to do what he did. I would always wonder about Arjun, did he have a smooth ride always? As you have rightly pointed out, not really! Just because you got meted out a bad deal does not justify evil actions. Karna's actions are unpardonable and unforgivable. I am not saying the Pandavas did not make mistakes, they did and paid a price for that by losing all their children in war.
Drawing parallels in RKC, everyone can see Narottam's pain. True, the world has been an unjust place for him, he has been living a life of hell, but what about Anami? Is it easy for her to be forced to leave her familiar surrounding at such a young age? I will root for Narottam only if he comes over to the good side, as long as he supports Sudha, I cant sympathize with him. Like Karna, he has the goodness in him that Anami has forced out! What remains to be seen is will he like Karna succumb to "victim" mentality or will he rise from those circumstances and come over to the good side? The first option is easier.
moonwearer thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
Karna chose to follow his passion.he did not hesitate to lie and seek the knowledge he desired. He did not hesitate to tow the line of his friend aiding and abetting Dushasana. He had no qualms about breaking the rules of war and cornering the young Abhimanyu.
He chose to fight with Duryodhan who he knew was unfair. He chose to play the victim card.

His mother may have abandoned him but he was raised in love. The Pandavas were princes but were constantly in a state of struggle. Attempts were made on their life, they were banished and had to live incognito. They never bemoaned. The only time they questioned their brother was when they were enslaved.

In the name of social justice India has a reservation system that is allowing mediocrity to thrive and while I see the so called FC struggling to hone in on skills there is a total apathy in some others as they get away as opportunities are easily created for them.

Has Satrupa choices been easy ? She has had to forget her personal preferences putting those of RS and LM ahead.

She was not responsible for Sudhas initial injustice, yet it is she that has suffered greater loss. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. ..The mantle of LM has been a crucifix. Even now there is name calling and plotting. She bears it all as she chooses to follow the dharma dictated by her role.
deejagi thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
I know nobody will agree with me on this but I will state what I felt. Why are we calling Bhishma, Drona and Karna as evil people and cowards? Because they didn't stop the disrobe? Why will anyone else do that when her own husbands were dipped their heads like cowards? When they watched their own wife being disrobed helplessly in the name od Dharma, how safe are the ladies in their rule? Duryodhan did all that to enrage them, ti make them wage a war or fight l, so that he could prove his ability but they succumbed and let Draupadi battle on her own to save her chastity. Draupadi took a vow saying she will not tue her hair till she apply Duryodhan's blood to it to avenge his act but why she didn't make any such vow against her husbands for they let Duryodhan do such thing to her? If what pandava's did was dharma because they obeyed their brother, how the same was termed wrong when others followed their king?
No i am not justifying what Duryodhan did was right but i am telling what pandava's did at moment was worst. Duryodhan says on this as "Let alone my wife, had someone touched anu of the maids in my state in such way, I would have killed him bare handed and would nothave thought about any dharma as saving a lady from getting dishonored is the utmost Dharma".
If we Agree for Pandava's disguise, why are ee mentioning od Karna's?
Guys let us not be selective in accepting only one set of people as righteous and the others as weong in all circumstances.
Mangothyme thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago

Originally posted by: moonwearer

Karna chose to follow his passion.he did not hesitate to lie and seek the knowledge he desired. He did not hesitate to tow the line of his friend aiding and abetting Dushasana. He had no qualms about breaking the rules of war and cornering the young Abhimanyu.

He chose to fight with Duryodhan who he knew was unfair. He chose to play the victim card.

His mother may have abandoned him but he was raised in love. The Pandavas were princes but were constantly in a state of struggle. Attempts were made on their life, they were banished and had to live incognito. They never bemoaned. The only time they questioned their brother was when they were enslaved.

In the name of social justice India has a reservation system that is allowing mediocrity to thrive and while I see the so called FC struggling to hone in on skills there is a total apathy in some others as they get away as opportunities are easily created for them.

Has Satrupa choices been easy ? She has had to forget her personal preferences putting those of RS and LM ahead.

She was not responsible for Sudhas initial injustice, yet it is she that has suffered greater loss. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. ..The mantle of LM has been a crucifix. Even now there is name calling and plotting. She bears it all as she chooses to follow the dharma dictated by her role.


Satrupa was involved directly in the initial justice. She says so in the episode Sudha comes into LM. I am rewatching some episodes to write Kahani Ab Tak for 100 episode thread. I can tell you where and what exactly she said.

When Anami says Sudha is a part of this family, Satrupa says "Kabhi Nahi thi aur Kabhi nahi hoga". She never was and never will be. When Anami asks her 'who are you to decide her fate ?', Satrupa says that she wrote the final chapter in that saga and closed the book. I don't what exactly she did, she does not say. But Satrupa was very involved in the initial justice of Sudha. In fact the word used in the caption is "scripted". Satrupa scripted the final part of the justice and this is said right in front of Vikram, Gayathri, Baldev, Sudha, Pujan, Avdoot, Kamini and Narotta,.
Mangothyme thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago

Originally posted by: deejagi

I know nobody will agree with me on this but I will state what I felt. Why are we calling Bhishma, Drona and Karna as evil people and cowards? Because they didn't stop the disrobe? Why will anyone else do that when her own husbands were dipped their heads like cowards? When they watched their own wife being disrobed helplessly in the name od Dharma, how safe are the ladies in their rule? Duryodhan did all that to enrage them, ti make them wage a war or fight l, so that he could prove his ability but they succumbed and let Draupadi battle on her own to save her chastity. Draupadi took a vow saying she will not tue her hair till she apply Duryodhan's blood to it to avenge his act but why she didn't make any such vow against her husbands for they let Duryodhan do such thing to her? If what pandava's did was dharma because they obeyed their brother, how the same was termed wrong when others followed their king?

No i am not justifying what Duryodhan did was right but i am telling what pandava's did at moment was worst. Duryodhan says on this as "Let alone my wife, had someone touched anu of the maids in my state in such way, I would have killed him bare handed and would nothave thought about any dharma as saving a lady from getting dishonored is the utmost Dharma".
If we Agree for Pandava's disguise, why are ee mentioning od Karna's?
Guys let us not be selective in accepting only one set of people as righteous and the others as weong in all circumstances.


I don't find any Pandava righeous, most of all Yudishra. He should have been punished. Pandavas are cowards. They had other wives, kids but they blindly followed Yudi. They blindly listened to their idiot mother say something stupid about sharing so they shared Draupadi. They behaved like they are one being, no individualism. So Yudishtra was able to treat them as slaves. He had the audacity to ask Draupadi to tie her hair and forgive Dushan because he did not know. Weak and spineless. In fact nothing about him I find appealing. If he is Dharmaraj I don't want that Dharma. No Akkal for Bhima, Arjuna and do Nakula and Sahadeva even have a voice.

Same thing appears to Drona, Kripacharya and most of all Bheeshma. Cowards, kayir. Not deserving of any respect from me. Bheeshma most of all.

@Bold - I kept thinking the same thing, how are these people righteous. Gray but MB justice I do not understand. I only bow down to the wisdom of God and accept that I cannot understand certain things based on a point in time like my mom tells me. Perhaps their heart was pure but their actions make me think they are cowards, the whole of them and no better than Kuravas.
Edited by Mangothyme - 7 years ago
Mangothyme thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago

Originally posted by: moonwearer

Karna chose to follow his passion.he did not hesitate to lie and seek the knowledge he desired. He did not hesitate to tow the line of his friend aiding and abetting Dushasana. He had no qualms about breaking the rules of war and cornering the young Abhimanyu.

He chose to fight with Duryodhan who he knew was unfair. He chose to play the victim card.

His mother may have abandoned him but he was raised in love. The Pandavas were princes but were constantly in a state of struggle. Attempts were made on their life, they were banished and had to live incognito. They never bemoaned. The only time they questioned their brother was when they were enslaved.

In the name of social justice India has a reservation system that is allowing mediocrity to thrive and while I see the so called FC struggling to hone in on skills there is a total apathy in some others as they get away as opportunities are easily created for them.

Has Satrupa choices been easy ? She has had to forget her personal preferences putting those of RS and LM ahead.

She was not responsible for Sudhas initial injustice, yet it is she that has suffered greater loss. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. ..The mantle of LM has been a crucifix. Even now there is name calling and plotting. She bears it all as she chooses to follow the dharma dictated by her role.


When you live in a time where your birth decided what you were and if you were qualified what is wrong in lying. The Pandavas were given the knowledge because they were princes. Were they qualified ? Were Nakula and Sahadeva better ? Was Yudi ? Were any of the 100 Kuravas better than him.

Abandoning a child at birth has consequences be it Satrupa or Kunti. That child will not be loving. Yet Karna gave his matlabi mata certain vows that led to his death knowing so. What did Arjuna do ?

In a fair society merit will win. But that is utopia. But if people are not given knowledge or skill according to their abilities but birth they are justified in getting them by any means. You can see the same nepotism debate in today's BW . It's like saying only an Ambani child can learn an MBA in today's world. Well in that case anyone who wants to study an MBA is justified if they do it by crooked means if they have the ability. That is fair and dharma in today's world. That is what Karna did to me.
Edited by Mangothyme - 7 years ago
moonwearer thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
There seems to be some double standard even in the way Duryodhan perceives women. By saying that he would not tolerate injustice to a dasi but it was ok to disrobe Draupadi seems unfair. A woman whoever she maybe has to be treated with dignity. By capturing the Kasi princesses on behalf of his brother Bheesma did grave injustice to women. By sitting in the Rajyasabha witnessing the way the pandavas and Kauravas treated Panchali the elders lost their claim to respect.
We expect patnidharma and speak of how a woman has to uphold the values of her family . Manusmriti does grave injustice to women. Yet nobody chastises a man for not living upto his Patidharma.
Left to her means a woman is capable of preserving her identity but patriarchal society does not give woman such a place in society. She was considered subservient to man. A woman who was pushed to live with 5 men is equated to a prostitute but a man could take several wives and marry even on his death bed and none questioned it.
When vichitravirya died heirless, his wives had to resort to accepting Vyasa to father children. Was their voice heard?
Gandhari was asked to marry a blind insecure king was she asked if she liked to ?
Whatever be the story ...Ramayana, MB the story of Ganga the Bhagavadapuranas we find that women were treated as lesser mortals.
Panchali and Amba by questioning patriarchy were the forerunners to liberal thinking in some ways. They questioned the atrocities.
The Agnipariksha in Ramayana, the story of Shantha, the promise made to Kaikeyi by her old husband Dasharatha are all examples of the prevalent custom them.
In Himachal Pradesh the panchali tradition continued until recently due to skewed population ratio.
By questioning the actions of one in a context does not make it a condemnation of a character.
There are people on the thread too who practice selective attack of others...it is a normal tendency to justify ones actions and ideas
BillyJean. thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago

Originally posted by: moonwearer

Karna chose to follow his passion.he did not hesitate to lie and seek the knowledge he desired. He did not hesitate to tow the line of his friend aiding and abetting Dushasana. He had no qualms about breaking the rules of war and cornering the young Abhimanyu.

He chose to fight with Duryodhan who he knew was unfair. He chose to play the victim card.

His mother may have abandoned him but he was raised in love. The Pandavas were princes but were constantly in a state of struggle. Attempts were made on their life, they were banished and had to live incognito. They never bemoaned. The only time they questioned their brother was when they were enslaved.

In the name of social justice India has a reservation system that is allowing mediocrity to thrive and while I see the so called FC struggling to hone in on skills there is a total apathy in some others as they get away as opportunities are easily created for them.

Has Satrupa choices been easy ? She has had to forget her personal preferences putting those of RS and LM ahead.

She was not responsible for Sudhas initial injustice, yet it is she that has suffered greater loss. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. ..The mantle of LM has been a crucifix. Even now there is name calling and plotting. She bears it all as she chooses to follow the dharma dictated by her role.

100% agree! Karma is an epitome of "poor me" mentality! The world was bad to him, so he chose to be bad to Draupadi and participated and took the lead in Abhi's murder. If MB is full of cowards, Karna leads the list! He took out his frustrations on a helpless woman, he was the one who egged Duryodhan to disrobe the woman. He also took the lead in Abhi's slaughter. And we idolize him just because he was wronged as a child! Its wrong!!! Somewhere in his life, he had to grow up, stop blaming the world for his plight and take responsibility for his actions! That would hve been respect worthy!
Krishna said this...if Karna as the eldest Pandava, is allowed gain the throne, he will donate it to Duryodhan.
Karna allowed himself to be used by Duryodhan to satisfy his evil motives. Duryodhan would not have had the confidence and courage to wage the war, if not for Karna's unconditional support. Karna willingly became a pawn in the hands of the evil forces. I cannot respect someone who has lost the ability to think and use his own reasoning before taking action.
Edited by BillyJean. - 7 years ago
moonwearer thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
Karna was representing Duryodhan in the Swayamvar. Draupadi exercised her preference and refused to consider Karna a suitor. Karna was peeved. infact When Kunti negotiates with Karna to join the Pandavas she offers Panchali as a term. We can see how a woman manipulates the rights of another woman. If the announcement to share Panchali after the wedding was made unknowingly, here it is a conscious manipulation to entice Karna.
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Posted: 7 years ago

Originally posted by: Mangothyme


I saw Pujan Chacha on Porus doing an important role as Darius. Now I am worried about how it will affect our show. Seeing Kamini chachi instead of Pujan Chacha play villain by accident is making me a bit anxious.



I saw Kamini in a StarBharat show Kala Bhairava😆 playing the heroine's aunt.

Porus was in the making for some time and what we see now might have been shot much earlier.

I guess, these actors are good at managing multiple shows and in RKC except Anami,Satrupa & to some extent Adhi rest of the chars come & go weekly, so I don't think this show will be impacted.

Not to worry.😃 My concern is BD, the actor hardly gets any scenes and i hope he waits around for track to gather momentum.

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