Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan - Page 22

Originally posted by: ananyacool

😲 this is a new info for me, never knew this part!

thanks

I think Mandodari too dies on Ravan's dead body or does she too enter the pyre??

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Bharat was not older to Lakshman. The way the payash was divided (sarg 16):

[quote="Sarg 16"]Dasharath went to his palace and told Kaushalyaa that that Prasaad was sent by Devtaa. It would give her a son. He gave half of it to Kaushalyaa, then "half of the remaining half" (1/4th) to Sumitraa, then the "half of the remaining half" (1/8th) to Kaikeyee. After giving giving some thoughts Raajaa gave the remaining part (1/8th part) to Sumitraa again. After some time the three queens became pregnant.

[/quote]

This pretty much establishes the sequences of the brothers (but not the relative power, since all these fractions of infinity are still infinite). First Rama, then Lakshman, then Bharat, then Shatrughan. Now, whether Bharat was born in the time frame between Lakshman & Shatrughan being born is implicit.

Supporting this assertion is Rama's reques to to Lakshman at his rajabhishek to become his Yuvraj, which Lakshman declined:

[quote="Sarg 128"]Raam said to Lakshman - "You are the eldest among your brothers, so help me to rule." When Lakshman did not accept the yuvraj status then He appointed Bharat as yuvraj[/quote]

Also, in Sarg 127, just before that, Bharat is mentioned as greeting Sita & Lakshman in the same verse. Since the only way he could greet Sita would be charan-sparsh, it's implicit that he did the same for Lakshman.

I haven't seen anything that describes the relative seniority of Kaikeyi vs Sumitra.

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

Most of the time Bharat is shown to be elder than Lakshman. Most of the time it is Lakshman who calls Bharat as 'Bhaiya'. But I too have read references that Bharat is the younger one of the two.

Rimi

This is what Ramacharitmanas has, and is one of the basic differences between Valmiki & Tulsidas.

In Valmiki, Kaushalya gets the first 1/2, Sumitra the next 1/4, Kaikeyi the next 1/8 (Dasharath was initially considering giving her the entire 1/4) and Sumitra again the remaining 1/8. That sequence would give - RLBS

In Tulsidas, Kaushalya and Kaikeyi both get 1/2, and each give 1/2 of their portion to Sumitra. This would give RBLS.

In the Valmiki version, I've read about Rama himself describing Lakshman as the eldest among the 3 remaining brothers, although I'm trying to source the original.

I'm still unclear, but the verses Ananya pointed out had Bharat, Lakshman and Shatrughan being born on the same day. Just because Bharat is mentioned before doesn't make it explicit that he was #2 - as per the payash sequence, he could still have been #3, but that's not clear from this section.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

The author notes in blue are obviously his/her interpretations, rather than Valmiki's. Particularly the observation about Bharat being the youngest, in face of the evidence. But that still leaves open the question of why Rama himself describes Lakshman as the #2, as in 6-128. I tried the site you provided for more details, but it is still a work in progress, and only has until Sarg 88.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Rimi

This is what Ramacharitmanas has, and is one of the basic differences between Valmiki & Tulsidas.

In Valmiki, Kaushalya gets the first 1/2, Sumitra the next 1/4, Kaikeyi the next 1/8 (Dasharath was initially considering giving her the entire 1/4) and Sumitra again the remaining 1/8. That sequence would give - RLBS

In Tulsidas, Kaushalya and Kaikeyi both get 1/2, and each give 1/2 of their portion to Sumitra. This would give RBLS.

In the Valmiki version, I've read about Rama himself describing Lakshman as the eldest among the 3 remaining brothers, although I'm trying to source the original.

I'm still unclear, but the verses Ananya pointed out had Bharat, Lakshman and Shatrughan being born on the same day. Just because Bharat is mentioned before doesn't make it explicit that he was #2 - as per the payash sequence, he could still have been #3, but that's not clear from this section.

Originally posted by: bharat999

😲 this is a new info for me, never knew this part!

thanks

I think Mandodari too dies on Ravan's dead body or does she too enter the pyre??