~| Whatever you want to argue about - 2 |~ - Page 35

Drona was Dristadumya’s Guru -

Bhishma Parva -

Sanjaya said, “At that time, on seeing the Pandava soldiers assembled

in battle formation, King Duryodhana went to the preceptor 71 and spoke the following words. ‘O preceptor! Look at this great army of the

Pandavas, assembled in battle formation by the son of Drupada, 72 your talented student. Here there are courageous warriors with mighty bows,

the equals of Bhima and Arjuna in battle—Yuyudha

Drona Parva

You say that you are devoted to dharma and have described me as my preceptor’s killer. But it was for that reason that I was born from the fire, as the son of Panchala. O Dhananjaya! How can you describe him as a brahmana or a kshatriya?

Dear Lord! 43 pages already? We are an argumentative lot!🤣 My kind of people!🤗😆

Can we talk about curse to yayati. And how did it affected puru and yadu.

And, O king, having virtuously ruled his subjects for a long time, Yayati was attacked with a hideous decrepitude destroying his personal beauty. And attacked by decrepitude, the monarch then spoke, O Bharata, unto his sons Yadu and Puru and Turvasu and Drahyu and Anu these words, 'Ye dear sons, I wish to be a young man and to gratify my appetites in the company of young women. Do you help me therein.' To him his eldest son born of Devayani then said, 'What needest thou, O king? Dost thou want to have your youth?' Yayati then told him, 'Accept thou my decrepitude, O son! With thy youth I would enjoy myself. During the time of a great sacrifice I have been cursed by the Muni Usanas (Sukra). O son, I would enjoy myself with your youth. Take any of you this my decrepitude and with my body rule ye my kingdom. I would enjoy myself with a renovated body. Therefore, ye my sons, take ye my decrepitude.' But none of his sons accepted his decrepitude. Then his youngest son Puru said unto him, 'O king, enjoy thyself thou once again with a renovated body and returned youth! I shall take thy decrepitude and at thy command rule thy kingdom.' Thus addressed, the royal sage, by virtue of his ascetic power then transferred his own decrepitude unto that high-souled son of his and with the youth of Puru became a youth; while with the monarch's age Puru ruled his kingdom.

What did he meant from when he asked his son for their "youth". ??

O monarch, since thou hast made vice thy beloved pursuit, though fully acquainted with the precepts of religion, invincible decrepitude shall paralyse thee!' Yayati answered, 'Adorable one, I was solicited by the daughter of the Danava king to fructify her season. I did it from a sense of virtue and not from other motives. That male person, who being solicited by a woman in her season doth not grant her wishes, is called, O Brahmana, by those conversant with the Vedas, a slayer of the embryo. He who, solicited in secret by a woman full of desire and in season, goeth not in unto her, loseth virtue and is called by the learned a killer of the embryo, O son of Bhrigu, for these reasons, and anxious to avoid sin, I went into Sarmishtha.' Sukra then replied, 'Thou art dependent on me. Thou shouldst have awaited my command. Having acted falsely in the matter of thy duty, O son of Nahusha, thou hast been guilty of the sin of theft

Yayati, the son of Nahusha, thus cursed by the angry Usanas, was then divested of his youth and immediately overcome by decrepitude. And Yayati said, 'O son of Bhrigu, I have not yet been satiated with youth or with Devayani. Therefore, O Brahmana, be graceful unto me so that decrepitude might not touch me.' Sukra then answered, 'I never speak an untruth. Even now, O king, art thou attacked by decrepitude. But if thou likest, thou art competent to transfer this thy decrepitude to another.' Yayati said, 'O Brahmana, let it be commanded by thee that that son of mine who giveth me his youth shall enjoy my kingdom, and shall achieve both virtue and fame.' Sukra replied, 'O son of Nahusha, thinking of me thou mayst transfer this thy decrepitude p. 183 to whomsoever thou likest. That son who shall give thee his youth shall become thy successor to the throne. He shall also have long life, wide fame, and numerous progeny!'

What did the curse actually meant from a non divine pov??

Can we do a fun debate?

Who from Indian cinema can you see as the following characters. Pick from ANY era.

Panchali -

Krishna -

Arjuna -

Yudhishtira -

Bheema -

Nakula -

Sahdev -

Kunti -

Dhrishtadyumna -

Shikhandi -

Karna -

Suyodhana -

Dusshassan -

Shakuni -

Bheeshma -

Drona -

Vidura -

Dhritharashtra-

Gandhari -

My choices.

Picking from from ANY era.

Panchali - Young Sushmita Sen or young Hema Malini

Krishna - Fawad Khan

Arjuna - Hrithik Roshan

Yudhishtira - John Abraham

Bheema - Prabhas

Nakula - Siddharth Malhotra

Sahdev - late Sushant

Kunti - Rakhi (old one, not the current)

Dhrishtadyumna - young Akshay Kumar

Shikhandi - There is a new guy, Farah's son. I think my keyboard still has drool on it.

Karna - Vicky Kaushal

Suyodhana - Vidyut Jammwal

Dusshassan - Salman Khan

Shakuni - Paresh Rawal

Bheeshma - Amitabh Bachchan

Drona - Vinodh Khanna

Vidura - Anupam Kher

Dhritharashtra - Rajesh Khanna

Gandhari - Sharmila Tagore

Originally posted by: NoraSM

So, It was an adoption ceremony

Do you think Drupad didn’t want people to find out that they were adopted and spread Propaganda about them being born out of fire?

It may or may not have been an adoption. Only thing confirmed is that Drupad's wife asks them to be henceforth known as her children. Which means she was not the biological mother. But that still leaves open the possibility that Drupad may have had them from another woman or they may not be Drupad's at all.

The ceremony was specific for consecrating Dhrishtdyumn and getting him divine sanction or brahmana sanction for killing Drona and given to Drupad as a son.

One other thing it was a malafide yagya / Black yagya. One done for destruction not for improvement or development. Therefore when even Draupadi comes out, the sanction for her is destruction of evil kshatriya.

Normally when a girl comes to a house as daughter or daughter in law. The blessing is of prosperity and growth. In Drau's case the duryagya meant the blessing will be destruction of evil.

Every yagya depending upon its purpose has its own benediction protocol.

For eg wedding blessings for the boy are chiranjeevi bhava and girls are sowbhagyavati bhav

Or Santi Yagya is Manah Shantir Bhavatu for both

Etc.

Its a benediction. Kind of a protocol thing. I dont think it was any prophecy or expectation from her or plan for her.

Dyut was not a family event.

A Rajasuya / Ashwamedha / Vajpeya yagya have a specific protocol

1. Military campaign in four directions. This may take anywhere between a year to several years

2. Sankalp yagya. It marks the beginning of the yagya and the person performing it has to follow strict brahmacharya and fasting till the final ceremony along with his wife.

3. Pitra yagya. Done after 3 months of sankalp yagya

4. Navagraha and santi yagya. Done after 3 months of pitrayagya and timed to coincide with harvesting. The new crop is.consecrated. and offered to Gods. Called Navadhanya.

5. Rajasuya. The final ceremony.

Yagya is only one part of this final ceremony. Apart from yagya there is honoring the host and the challenge games.

Challenge games are ritualistic events like hunting, single combats, horse races, chariot races and dice game.

A lot of these events are hosted by relatives. As a kind of reciprocal honor.

That is why Yudhishtir could not refuse. And he naively presumed that since it is for honoring him, he will not.lose.

And being a ritualistic event obviously a lot of pther people are also invited to attend

Originally posted by: Chiillii

It may or may not have been an adoption. Only thing confirmed is that Drupad's wife asks them to be henceforth known as her children. Which means she was not the biological mother. But that still leaves open the possibility that Drupad may have had them from another woman or they may not be Drupad's at all.

The ceremony was specific for consecrating Dhrishtdyumn and getting him divine sanction or brahmana sanction for killing Drona and given to Drupad as a son.

One other thing it was a malafide yagya / Black yagya. One done for destruction not for improvement or development. Therefore when even Draupadi comes out, the sanction for her is destruction of evil kshatriya.

Normally when a girl comes to a house as daughter or daughter in law. The blessing is of prosperity and growth. In Drau's case the duryagya meant the blessing will be destruction of evil.

Every yagya depending upon its purpose has its own benediction protocol.

For eg wedding blessings for the boy are chiranjeevi bhava and girls are sowbhagyavati bhav

Or Santi Yagya is Manah Shantir Bhavatu for both

Etc.

Its a benediction. Kind of a protocol thing. I dont think it was any prophecy or expectation from her or plan for her.

Had they been Drupad's children wouldn't the public know them? At max they could be the children of some Dasi born in the palace, but I guess even those would be known like we know Yuyutsu so well. Aside Dhristhdhyum was a trained warrior by then, so why didn't he fight in the GuruDakshina war. It doesn't seem they were known to Drupad beforehand. Mostly he adopted him. Unless we assume that he did a Gandharva Vivah long back and had children whom he never acknowledged until now.

Coming to Draupadi, I think she had to have some purpose for taking in. She couldn't have been accepted/adopted just because Dhristhdhyum was her brother, else she shouldn't need to be a part of DurYagya. They could have had Dhristhdhyum in that and adopted Draupadi separately. The destruction of Kshatriyas seem very far fetched dream, but there definitely was some evil expected out of her by Drupad

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Dyut was not a family event.

A Rajasuya / Ashwamedha / Vajpeya yagya have a specific protocol

1. Military campaign in four directions. This may take anywhere between a year to several years

2. Sankalp yagya. It marks the beginning of the yagya and the person performing it has to follow strict brahmacharya and fasting till the final ceremony along with his wife.

3. Pitra yagya. Done after 3 months of sankalp yagya

4. Navagraha and santi yagya. Done after 3 months of pitrayagya and timed to coincide with harvesting. The new crop is.consecrated. and offered to Gods. Called Navadhanya.

5. Rajasuya. The final ceremony.

Yagya is only one part of this final ceremony. Apart from yagya there is honoring the host and the challenge games.

Challenge games are ritualistic events like hunting, single combats, horse races, chariot races and dice game.

A lot of these events are hosted by relatives. As a kind of reciprocal honor.

That is why Yudhishtir could not refuse. And he naively presumed that since it is for honoring him, he will not.lose.

And being a ritualistic event obviously a lot of pther people are also invited to attend

Oh so the Yagya involves a lot of festivities as well. Interesting people.

But was it necessary for Yudhishtir to continue playing till slavery?? I mean I understood that Yudhishtir couldn't have denied the invitation for a competition held for his honour. They continued with it, but was staking Indraprasth a must for Yudhishtir? Couldn't he just excuse himself after losing the money and das dasis?

Or was Duryodhan sure that Yudhishtir would play till slavery?

And was it necessary to accept the second game of dice? Till now things were pretty clear for Yudhishtir

As you said there were multiple events that were organised, definitely it wouldn't have been a mandate that the king on whose honour the function was being organised would win each of them (rather it's impossible) so couldn't he just back out after things start taking a wrong turn?

If you ask me, I don't think Shakuni did some cheating in the game, there were many people in the dice hall and many of them were neutral, they would have realised that it was cheating, not even Yudhishtir said it ever, until Draupadi made that announcement. That entire cheating narrative seems an excuse given to hide the loss if you ask me

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Had they been Drupad's children wouldn't the public know them? At max they could be the children of some Dasi born in the palace, but I guess even those would be known like we know Yuyutsu so well. Aside Dhristhdhyum was a trained warrior by then, so why didn't he fight in the GuruDakshina war. It doesn't seem they were known to Drupad beforehand. Mostly he adopted him. Unless we assume that he did a Gandharva Vivah long back and had children whom he never acknowledged until now.

Coming to Draupadi, I think she had to have some purpose for taking in. She couldn't have been accepted/adopted just because Dhristhdhyum was her brother, else she shouldn't need to be a part of DurYagya. They could have had Dhristhdhyum in that and adopted Draupadi separately. The destruction of Kshatriyas seem very far fetched dream, but there definitely was some evil expected out of her by Drupad

Not by Drupada. Vyasa planned the alliance.

His actions make it plenty clear there was a plan in place. It was no evil benediction but a plan. Not prophecy. Plan.

And why would anyone think it was evil? The ruling class was corrupt. It wasn't a modern democracy to take them to court. The only solution was their subjugation. Failing that, their collective death.