Drapaudi and drishtdyum - Page 5

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Also if she was adopted as a grown up how is she talking about her childhood in Vana Parva? It's possible if she was adopted at birth only

An obscure brahmana child learning with Drona would not have drawn attention. Once he is adopted, Dhrishtadyumna became known. Not before.

Of course she had a childhood before adoption. SImply with another set of parents IMO.

One other thing to consider: if Dhrishtadyumna and Panchali were indeed Drupada's children as the professor assumes. Drona would not have trained him. Also, on the one in a million chnace Drona was suicidal enough to agree, Dhrishtadyumna would already have been seen in the gurukul AND be known as the Panchal prince. There is no way he could've stayed obscure as Drupada's son.

Also, it would've been impossible to cloister Panchali's beauty as she herself states she came into contact with sages. The sages would've talked. The women of the palace would've talked. Moreover, nothing in Panchali's demeanour suggests she was cloistered. That kind of 'quarantine' creates mental health problems.

All in all: everyone would've known Drupada lied, including the Kauravas and Karna.

Prof Bandhopadhyay's theory doesn't hold water.

I don't think I'm making myself clear

Dhrishtadyumna and Panchali were born to another set of parents, people who were not famous. Likely Angirasa brahmanas.

Dhrishtadyumna was sent to train with Drona, a Bharadvaja Angirasa who was aligned with the Vasishta-Varunis. At this time, no one knows him.

Gurudakshina war happens. Drupada needs a son who can kill Drona. He goes to Yaja who refuses. For a price, Upayaja tells the king about a boy, one who was trained by Drona, no less. The king must've rubbed his hands together in ironic glee. Drupada adopts Dhrishtadyumna. Panchali comes as package deal.

________

If the duo were born to Drupada, there is no way they could've stayed hidden until then, especially not Dhrishtadyumna as he was in Drona's gurukul. The kauravas and Pandavas would've known who he was.

An obscure brahmana boy would go unnoticed. Panchali was equally obscure.

Then, they got adopted. THAT'S when people noticed. An appropriate metaphor was put out. Angirasa = Agni as Vyasa says.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

An obscure brahmana child learning with Drona would not have drawn attention. Once he is adopted, Dhrishtadyumna became known. Not before.

Of course she had a childhood before adoption. SImply with another set of parents IMO.

One other thing to consider: if Dhrishtadyumna and Panchali were indeed Drupada's children as the professor assumes. Drona would not have trained him. Also, on the one in a million chnace Drona was suicidal enough to agree, Dhrishtadyumna would already have been seen in the gurukul AND be known as the Panchal prince. There is no way he could've stayed obscure as Drupada's son.

At least from what I have read, I don't think he explicitly states she was DRUPAD'S daughter and son, more like she was biologically born in Drupad's clan. This is what I felt at least. I will check again to see if he mentions she was born to Drupad and his wife. At least, I feel his theory does prove they were born in Drupad's dynasty or clan. Not adopted. That's what I was trying to say.

Also, it would've been impossible to cloister Panchali's beauty as she herself states she came into contact with sages. The sages would've talked. The women of the palace would've talked. Moreover, nothing in Panchali's demeanour suggests she was cloistered. That kind of 'quarantine' creates mental health problems.

All in all: everyone would've known Drupada lied, including the Kauravas and Karna.

Prof Bandhopadhyay's theory doesn't hold water.

Also about Dhrist, can you quote from when Drona started teaching Dhrist (I mean IK he was taught by him, I mean the time- when). It was not with Pandavas was it? Because then they would have known him, no?

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Also about Dhrist, can you quote from when Drona started teaching Dhrist (I mean IK he was taught by him, I mean the time- when). It was not with Pandavas was it? Because then they would have known him, no?

Text doesn't give timeframe, IIRC. so we have a conundrum. After Pandavas means Dhrishtadyumna waa already prince of Panchal, and Drona wouldn't have trained him unless the acharya were suicidal. Before Panchal adoption means, Pandavas COULD have noticed him. Since Drona's gurukul wasn't limited to Kuru princes, an obscure student could've gone unnoticed.

That's one the reasons why I'm betting on the side of adult adoption.

At the end of the day, the jataka is the only place where the biological parents are bluntly stated. The Kosala king and queen. Adoptive parents were Drupada and daughter of Devala as per Mahabharata/other Hindu texts.

Another small question (might look a little dumb:P)

Why did Dhrist suddenly get abandoned by his parents? Like I understand they were sages but yet they gave away their children Dhrist and Drau for no purpose that might make them happy? (Apart from money I believe)

Now let's consider Drupad was a king so no option. Dhrist was a grown up guy from what we gather. Then how come he is ready to kill his guru for a King and what he convinced Dhrist to do?

I do understand the alternate theory, but this is something I find very strange because these people are humans too, and what's the logic behind suddenly deciding to become Drupad's children.

Also, Drau and Dhrist must remember their childhood and parents. How come they never visited them. Maybe Vyasa skipped their visits but Drau never mentions this to any of her husbands, or anyone else through out the epic if she already had parents whom she interacted with.

Makes them look very robotic.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Text doesn't give timeframe, IIRC. so we have a conundrum. After Pandavas means Dhrishtadyumna waa already prince of Panchal, and Drona wouldn't have trained him unless the acharya were suicidal. Before Panchal adoption means, Pandavas COULD have noticed him. Since Drona's gurukul wasn't limited to Kuru princes, an obscure student could've gone unnoticed.

That's one the reasons why I'm betting on the side of adult adoption.

At the end of the day, the jataka is the only place where the biological parents are bluntly stated. The Kosala king and queen. Adoptive parents were Drupada and daughter of Devala as per Mahabharata/other Hindu texts.

I have not read this part of the Jataka tales, so I am just taking your words for it. Is it explicitly stated that Draupadi's real parents were them? Also we must find out what age this text is dated too as if it doesn't coincide with the dates of when the MB was finally written, how do we consider it authentic.

The reason I do not consider texts like Harivamsa ot Vishnu Puran authentic is because they are composed much later than the MB so I don't see them as a part of the MB. They are separate texts. So any dates of the Jataka scriptures?

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

I have not read this part of the Jataka tales, so I am just taking your words for it. Is it explicitly stated that Draupadi's real parents were them? Also we must find out what age this text is dated too as if it doesn't coincide with the dates of when the MB was finally written, how do we consider it authentic.

The reason I do not consider texts like Harivamsa ot Vishnu Puran authentic is because they are composed much later than the MB so I don't see them as a part of the MB. They are separate texts. So any dates of the Jataka scriptures?

https://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/j5/j5029.htm

Dated between 3rd century BC and 4th century AD, same as written Mahabharata.

Be warned, the Buddhists plainly call her a ... you get the gist.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

https://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/j5/j5029.htm

Dated between 3rd century BC and 4th century AD, same as written Mahabharata.

Be warned, the Buddhists plainly call her a ... you get the gist.

You better not say more 😆

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Another small question (might look a little dumb:P)

Why did Dhrist suddenly get abandoned by his parents? Like I understand they were sages but yet they gave away their children Dhrist and Drau for no purpose that might make them happy? (Apart from money I believe)

Now let's consider Drupad was a king so no option. Dhrist was a grown up guy from what we gather. Then how come he is ready to kill his guru for a King and what he convinced Dhrist to do?

I do understand the alternate theory, but this is something I find very strange because these people are humans too, and what's the logic behind suddenly deciding to become Drupad's children.

Also, Drau and Dhrist must remember their childhood and parents. How come they never visited them. Maybe Vyasa skipped their visits but Drau never mentions this to any of her husbands, or anyone else through out the epic if she already had parents whom she interacted with.

Makes them look very robotic.

Not robotic. Dhrishtadyumna isn't given many lines. Panchali married into the clan of THE Vasishta-Varuni, Krishna Dwaipayana. She WOULDN'T say anything. As for their bio parents, I'm assuming they were dead. Desperate times, etc. Faced with likely starvation and death, perhaps young Dhrishtadyumna made a deal. Of course, Drona's later role in events made fulfilling the promise easy.

NOW, I have one more tidbit 😆. Not sure how true this is. Someone in a Mahabharata discussion group claimed this but declined to give citations.

Ganga Purana (if it exists) apparently says Drona was married before Kripi. When the proposal came from Hastinapuri, he abandons his first wife and their boy/girl twin children. Drupada later adopts the twins. Now, the names of the twins aren't mentioned, but unless Drupada were in the habit of adopting twins...😆

I'm still researching this information, but FWIW, the source person is reliable when he chooses to be.

With the information I currently have, my best conclusion is Aryavarta Chronicles is correct with a few tweaks.

Panchali and Dhrishtadyumna were Angirasa children adopted by Drupada.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Not robotic. Dhrishtadyumna isn't given many lines. Panchali married into the clan of THE Vasishta-Varuni, Krishna Dwaipayana. She WOULDN'T say anything. As for their bio parents, I'm assuming they were dead. Desperate times, etc. Faced with likely starvation and death, perhaps young Dhrishtadyumna made a deal. Of course, Drona's later role in events made fulfilling the promise easy.

NOW, I have one more tidbit 😆. Not sure how true this is. Someone in a Mahabharata discussion group claimed this but declined to give citations.

Ganga Purana (if it exists) apparently says Drona was married before Kripi. When the proposal came from Hastinapuri, he abandons his first wife and their boy/girl twin children. Drupada later adopts the twins. Now, the names of the twins aren't mentioned, but unless Drupada were in the habit of adopting twins...😆

I'm still researching this information, but FWIW, the source person is reliable when he chooses to be.

With the information I currently have, my best conclusion is Aryavarta Chronicles is correct with a few tweaks.

Panchali and Dhrishtadyumna were Angirasa children adopted by Drupada.

@bold - OMG! Superb twist 🤣 I would actually like to believe that. 😛 Anyway being practical, if you find material on this, do share here!

I understand your theory. It does have some important reasoning, it was good to learn this bit. I have read Aryavarta Chronicles but it was way back. Now I see the points well and why it is the way it is!