Drapaudi and drishtdyum - Page 3

Now coming to the KMG bit of her birth-

And there arose, after this from the centre of the sacrificial platform, a daughter also, called Panchali, who, blest with great good fortune, was exceedingly handsome. Her eyes were black, and large as lotus-petals, her complexion was dark, and her locks were blue and curly. Her nails were beautifully convex, and bright as burnished copper; her eye-brows were fair, and bosom was deep.she resembled the veritable daughter of a celestial born among men. Her body gave out fragrance like that of a blue lotus, perceivable from a distance of full two miles. Her beauty was such that she had no equal on earth. Like a celestial herself, she could be desired (in marriage) by a celestial, a Danava, or a: Yaksha. When this girl of fair hips was born an incorporeal voice said, 'This dark-complexioned girl will be the first of all women, and she will be the cause of the destruction of many Kshatriyas. This slender-waisted one will, in time, accomplish the purpose of the gods, and along with her many a danger will overtake the Kauravas.” (KMG trans., Adi Parvan -169)

Now please see, @bold part. What is important is, Vyasa does not here state explicitly see was born OUT OF FIRE, but from the middle of a sacrificial bed ie Vedi.

Sanskrit Mahabharata goes - Vedi Madhyat Samutthita. (These lines are a part of the original Sanskrit MB)

So, what is technically impossible here is she being born out of burning fire- which as per Vyasa, never happened.

Now take a look at Swayamvar of Drau-

"Vaisampayana said, …The illustrious Yajnasena, otherwise called Drupada, had a daughter risen from the centre of the sacrificial altar. Of eyes like lotus-petals and of faultless features endued with youth and intelligence, she is extremely beautiful. And the slender-waisted Draupadi of every feature perfectly faultless, and whose body emitteth a fragrance like unto that of the blue lotus for two full miles around, is the sister of the strong-armed Dhrishtadyumna gifted with great prowess--the (would-be) slayer of Drona--who was born with natural mail and sword and bow and arrows from the blazing fire, himself like unto the second Fire. And that daughter of Yajnasena will select a husband from among the invited princes.(KMG trans., Adi Parvan -186)

Again, note that she isn't born out of raging fire. What we gather here-

1. Draupadi was born a grown-up
2. She was born from “Vedi” of Yajna - vedi.madhyaat.samutthitaa
3. She was not born directly from Fire – but she sprung from the centre of the Fire-Altar - vedi.madhyaat.samutthitaa. It is interesting that Mahabharata does not inform us whether Draupadi was born when the fire was still ablaze, or when the fire had extinguished on the completion of the Yajna.

The myth that Draupadi was born of Agni as a grown-up is contradicted by many references in the Mahabharata where Draupadi is said to have a normal childhood.

For example, it is mentioned in Adi-Parva (1.157.14) Draupadi was born in Drupada’s dynasty –

01,157.014a drupadasya kule jata kanya sa devaruupinii
01,157.014c nirdishta bhavatam patnii krshna parshaty anindita

If Draupadi was born from Yajna-Agni or Vedi, how could the poet say - drupadasya kule jata kanya? Born in dynasty - kule jata – applies only if Draupadi is normally born in Drupada’s dynasty.

A similar reference is found in Vana-Parva (3.280.32) -

03,028.032a drupadasya kule jatam snusham pandor mahatmanah
03,028.032b*0097_01 Dhristadyumnasya bhaginiim viirapatniim anuvratam
03,028.032c mam te vanagatam drshtva kasman manyur na vardhate

Again - drupadasya kule jatam

Some might argue that Draupadi born from Yajna would still make her drupadasya kule jatam - because the Yajna was after all performed by Drupada.

In Vana-Parva, Draupadi tells about herself that she and her brothers had a natural childhood – and this is conclusive proof from Mahabharata-Text that Draupadi had a normal birth and childhood -
“My father formerly kept a learned Brahmana with him. O bull of the Bharata race, he said all this unto my father. Indeed, these instructions as to duty, uttered by Vrihaspati himself, were first taught to my brothers. It was from them that I heard these afterwards while in my father's house. And, O Yudhishthira, while at intervals of business, I went out (of the inner apartments) and sat on the lap of my father, that learned Brahmana used to recite unto me these truths, sweetly consoling me therewith!”

03,033.055a evam samsthitika siddhir iyam lokasya bharata
03,033.055c citra siddhigatih prokta kalavasthavibhagatah
03,033.056a Brahmanam me pita puurvam vasayam asa pan?itam
03,033.056c so 'sma artham imam praha pitre me bharatarshabha
03,033.057a niitim brhaspatiproktam bhrat?n me 'grahayat pura
03,033.057c tesham samkathyam ashrausham aham etat tada grhe
03,033.058a sa mam rajan karmavatiim agatam aha santvayan
03,033.058c shushruushamanam asiinam pitur anke yudhishthira

If Draupadi could sit on her father’s lap (pitur anke), she, certainly, could not have been born a grown-up!

Once, when Krishna refers to Draupadi-putras as child, he says:
“Your father and your uterine brothers proffer them a kingdom and territories; but the boys find no joy in the house of Drupada, or in that of their maternal uncles.

03,180.024a rajyena rashtraish ca nimantryamanah; pitra ca krshne tava sodaraish ca
03,180.024c na Yajnasenasya na matulanam; grheshu bala ratim apnuvanti

The word ‘sodar’ suggests same womb. Vyasa could not have used that word (and that too in none other than Krishna’s voice!) had Draupadi been born otherwise.

Krishna’s words clearly indicate that Draupadi had a normal birth in mother’s womb, and all her brothers were born normally too in the same womb – including Dhristadyumna.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

That would mean she was years younger to Arjun and Krishna, since they were all grown ups by that time of Drupad war

Read both my posts properly I have found evidence

I personally think that after the loss in the war, Drupad realized that his sons are not worthy enough to avenge him and he announced for a proper adoption to decide his successor

He probably organized a competition to check who among the citizens are most worthy for being his successor for the throne and Dhristdhyumn won it. Draupadi was probably his real sister and beautiful (as Yudhishtir explained) so Draupad thought it an additional benefit for taking her and getting her married to Arjun.

The Agni Yagya probably wasn't a Putrasukti Yagya but a proper shhudhikaran Yagya post which the children became officially Drupad's

Also read, point 5 in this article. I really cannot quote it here because I will be banned. It has content that cannot be posted. But it is very important for the understanding of her birth, https://www.boloji.com/articles/16034/mahabharata-draupadi-birth-mystery-decoded

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

I personally think that after the loss in the war, Drupad realized that his sons are not worthy enough to avenge him and he announced for a proper adoption to decide his successor

He probably organized a competition to check who among the citizens are most worthy for being his successor for the throne and Dhristdhyumn won it. Draupadi was probably his real sister and beautiful (as Yudhishtir explained) so Draupad thought it an additional benefit for taking her and getting her married to Arjun.

The Agni Yagya probably wasn't a Putrasukti Yagya but a proper shhudhikaran Yagya post which the children became officially Drupad's

As her ancient indian literature however, Vedi, Yajna and Agni are metaphors for sexual intercourse, female and sex.

If they were really adopted, how would you explain her mention Atleast a few times about being born in Drupad's clan from the Sanskrit text?

In addition, how would you explain her statement in Vana Parna that states she had a normal childhood?

This cannot be possible unless she was Drupad's biological daughter.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

I don't think Vyasa himself in narration added any divinity, these are later interpolations which have twisted the words in such a way that it looks divine. I do get your point though.

About adopting a woman- it must be because Dhristadyumn had a sister and whoever he adopted him from or found (like the case with Sita) had a daughter too so he could not take the son and abandon the daughter maybe.

That's what I am saying, fire scene for Draupadi was to compensate for divinity of other characters

I don't believe any of this was real so it is possible that Vyasa was humoring a child with tales of divinity, like we tell kids bedtime stories. Later interpolation is a possibility too.

I think Draupadi was always Drupad's daughter. Adopting, an adult for war defeats the purpose, warriors are trained from childhood. Draupadi's knowledge shows she was tutored properly, She was old enough to be married, if someone could afford to tutor a woman, back in those days, could take care of her and would not let his son be adopted

I believe Drupad always had kids and the fire theory is obviously an interpolation

Originally posted by: NoraSM

That's what I am saying, fire scene for Draupadi was to compensate for divinity of other characters

I don't believe any of this was real so it is possible that Vyasa was humoring a child with tales of divinity, like we tell kids bedtime stories. Later interpolation is a possibility too.

I think Draupadi was always Drupad's daughter. Adopting, an adult for war defeats the purpose, warriors are trained from childhood. Draupadi's knowledge shows she was tutored properly, She was old enough to be married, if someone could afford to tutor a woman, back in those days, could take care of her and would not let his son be adopted

I believe Drupad always had kids and the fire theory is obviously an interpolation

No, not interpolation, simply metaphor because this is part of the Sanskrit text.

Read my two detailed posts in previous pages. Gave evidence.

1. Vyasa never he is born out of fire, but in the middle of Yagya Vedi.

2. Yagya, Vedi and Agni are metaphors for sexual intercourse, sex and female.

3. Draupadi is mentioned twice in the text to be born in Drupada's clan. You may argue that Drupad performed the yajna hence she is said so.

4. BUT, she in Vana Parva explicitly states of having a normal childhood (of having sat and played in her father Drupad's lap)

Hence, I strongly believe she was just a normally born princess.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Maybe, but Yuyutsu does not have much footage because he didn't do much to get footage. Look at Vidur, he was a dasiputra as well and he has alot of footage! 😆

Also I find it hard to believe that Drupad was ao giving that he would give dasi putra and putri such footage despite having normal children from queens considering he wasn't even Willing to keep his promise to his friend. I mean just analysis of mindset. 😛

Exactly. Dhrishty and Drau bhi did not do anything spectacular till then, and Drupad went quiet for whatever reason.

I believe, he groomed all of his kids (both from queens and other sources) and then handpicked the best of them to represent him. Kind of an opportunist mindset. I'd also read somewhere that he had sent away Shikhandini also till she manged to become a man? (I don't remember where)

I just don't think he loved his wife that much. I think he chose his kids on the basis of how useful were they for him. Dhrishty was known to be Drona's student for sometime, so Drupad realized that only a Drona-shishya could kill Drona. Arjun wouldn't, so Dhristy was his choice, and maybe marriage to Drau would have kept Arjun quiet (that happened, but owing to a vast set of other criteria). Shikhandi was brought up with Bheeshma in mind.

And Draupadi, throughout the epic we've seen her prove her mettle. I don't find it extraordinary that Drupad might have recognized that potential. 😃

Originally posted by: proteeti

Exactly. Dhrishty and Drau bhi did not do anything spectacular till then, and Drupad went quiet for whatever reason.

I believe, he groomed all of his kids (both from queens and other sources) and then handpicked the best of them to represent him. Kind of an opportunist mindset. I'd also read somewhere that he had sent away Shikhandini also till she manged to become a man? (I don't remember where)

I just don't think he loved his wife that much. I think he chose his kids on the basis of how useful were they for him. Dhrishty was known to be Drona's student for sometime, so Drupad realized that only a Drona-shishya could kill Drona. Arjun wouldn't, so Dhristy was his choice, and maybe marriage to Drau would have kept Arjun quiet (that happened, but owing to a vast set of other criteria). Shikhandi was brought up with Bheeshma in mind.

And Draupadi, throughout the epic we've seen her prove her mettle. I don't find it extraordinary that Drupad might have recognized that potential. 😃

Yes well there is no reason to believe Draupadi was born to his wife. The twins could have been born to any of the dasis or his wife/wives.

However, I think it is most probable that she was clearly Drupad's biological child (I provided alot of evidence in earlier threads) 😎

@CS thanks for the article. Gives answer to a lot of thing. Specially to pandava panchali alliance. I always knew it was a mutually beneficial political alliance with key players being drapaud krishna panchali ved vyas pandavas along with kunti. Kind of explain why drapaudi was smiling when arjun hit the target or why was she silent at the potter house because plan was working perfectly 😎

Though this raises another question were Normal peasants were so deep in myths that they believed all this mythical propaganda so easily. ??