To Be, Or Not To Be! - Page 5

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Gman thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#41

Originally posted by: JZephyr


And I'm still in awe of GK today. They are powerful and overwhelming when they are hurling themselves (not physically, always) at each other - but aren't they such a heart warming treat when they are just them? Two kids inside two grown ups, who's love from a decade ago has only grown - whether or not they understand or not.

JZee 😳



They are mirror to each other. Two kids inside two grown ups, well said JZEE. Loved your analysis.

-Fivr- thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#42
Lol, I'm clearly late to the party and most of the stuff I may say has probably already been mentioned here.. But I'm hoping it won't be too redundant.. 😳😆

I really wasn't sure what to expect after yesterday's developments but I knew that no matter what the case, it would help in pushing the story forward.. And while it isn't as clear and obvious right now, maybe the current developments are setting some sort of stage for the future progress - even though they seem too deja-vu-esque at the moment..

That being said, I really do think that if we had to pick the single most important scene in today's episode, it would have to be the one in the first four and a half minutes of the show.. It really does outline and direct the kind of relationship that they'd have for the next three months.. But the thing is, I don't think it was a deliberate decision, but rather one that was aided by opportunity. I mean, from the moment Kesar rushes into his room and locks the door, he's clearly overwhelmed by a mix of emotions.. I saw angst of knowing that he'd have to loose Gulaal eventually, coupled with the helplessness of the knowledge that there isn't ANY other option because anything else would just end up hurting her more which isn't something that HE'D want.. And while he's already so over come by his emotions, pain and sadness alike, Gulaal walks in.. At this point though, you can clearly see the apprehension on her face, which I think was due to the fact that she didn't know what to expect or how to behave. Should she pretend none of this ever happened (which would be ideal for her)? Or would Kesar instead be asking her brutally honestly questions (like the ones he did the night before) and if so, how should she prepare for it? I think she really was coming in expecting the worst i.e. expecting Kesar to be the man with mirror that he'd recently been.. one she clearly does like or feels comfortable around. But instead, Kesar overwhelmed by his own wave of emotion rushes out with an apology.. And apology for hurting her, for causing her pain.. Because really, he NEVER wanted that and to clarify THIS was a major priority for him.. Because he needed Gulaal to know that it was not his intention at all.. And I think THIS is when I notice Gulaal "see" the opportunity to regress into her "mahaan Gulaal" mode.. I think she saw Kesar's apology as an apology for ANYTHING he may have done during his deeyarvatu-exercising days.. And she takes this apology as his acceptance of being WRONG for asking/expecting a validated deeyarvatu.. for professing his love to her.. and for demanding of her and expecting her to change.. I really think she took the apology AT THAT MOMENT as an all encompassing "I was always wrong for EVERYTHING" sort of deal from Kesar. At which point you really do see her relieved because now she doesn't have to DEAL with any of it - just like she prefers.. Just what she's comfortable with..

And so she goes ahead and rests her hands on Kesar's (obviously gaining his attention in the process) and utters those oh-so-mahaan words about all his SINS being washed away by his actions in panchayat today. And you can really, truly see Kesar's confusion in that moment as he's trying to understand what Gulaal means and what that implies.. And as she continues on about her finally being free and being able to breathe again, you notice that he's started to realize just what she's doing.. That she's retreating into her shell - into that empty existence of her and that realization is replaced by a little bit of baffled annoyance.. I mean, the look on his face at that moment really does seem like he's thinking "Really Gulaal?! Really?! This is what you're going to do? After all we've been through? THIS is what you're going to choose to do?!".. But then she says the magic word - "khushi".. And that was it for Kesar.. She was finally happy and HE had given her that happiness.. And I think THAT was when Kesar decided to go along with this.. He let out that defeated sign - silent but so poignant.. And then he just offers to be friends, because hey, can't they act like mature adults for three months and just be friends? And THAT throws off Gulaal again.. The mentions of "three months", and the reference to the deeyarvatu that is still in place and would be broken with time.. And with that the reminder that he did indeed love her.. And you see her eyes turn hard for a bit before she mulls over her decision and finally decides (after Kesar's soft-spoken "Won't you be my friend?") that this is nothing more than a return to the pre-confession relationship dynamic (in her mind), where Kesar is her "friend" when she needs him to be but he is also a child to be indulged and pampered and sometimes disciplined.. should he ask for somethings he shouldn't.. I mean you SEE the hesitation in her eyes, before she decides on an ACCEPTABLE "explanation" for this friendship (by her standards) in her own mind.. And then you see her accept that explanation and finally be "friends" with him.

But ever since then, every time the deeyarvatu or Kesar's love is brought up i.e. when Gulaal's father gives them BOTH his blessings together as her leaves OR when Kesar suggests that he's used to her presence alongside him (in the room when they're discussing about going to Mota-bha) and thus implying that he's used to her being his PARTNER, his equal, his companion.. In all those moments where his feelings and the "deeyarvatu situation" is brought up, you see Gulaal's walls go up. It happens instantaneously and involuntarily.. She really does NOT want to hear about or be told of the TRUTH. She is perfectly happy being allowed (by Kesar) to regress into her "The Mahaan Widow" mode.. And any suggestion otherwise is just NOT welcome at the moment - probably because (like I'd mentioned Anu in the morning) she's stayed out side of her comfort zone and into the "real world" long enough for one stretch.. And though earlier Kesar hadn't given her the leniency to regress back into her make-believe world.. the fact that he HAS chosen to ignore and allow her regression now means that there is NO reason for her to stop and no one to stop her..

And I really did notice that self-induced obliviousness even more in the kitchen scene when she brings him the milk and asks him to drink it.. And he very simply tells her that he doesn't drink milk in the mornings anymore but has tea instead.. I mean, does anyone else notice the way she goes "But you SHOULD drink milk Kesar! I didn't say anything earlier because you were upset, but now you really should listen to me and drink this because we're 'friends'!".. THAT comment right there was DRIPPING with her patronizing tone - with her "Kesar doesn't know what he wants and is throwing another tantrum but I'll manao-fy him" tone! The one I use with my younger sister or someone clearly more "na-samajh" than me.. And I'll be lying if I said that I didn't go "Are you serious Gulaal?!" at the screen when I saw this.. Or another time when it was evident (to me) was when Baap-ji mentions how he's sure k Kesar will now make sure k Gulaal is going to be taken care of - the look on her face really suggests to me that she was looking at this as "nasamjh Kesar" now doing everything she'd like or not troubling her anymore and thus insuring her "happiness".. She is REALLY going to go ahead and pretend everything is "back to normal". She's going to choose to ignore every comment made by him and dismiss all his claims.. Which I guess is OKAY if this is just a TRANSITION into the ACTUAL realization that Gulaal will take away from the events of the past two weeks.. I can accept it and watch through it if this will now LEAD to her realization and her apology and her repentence.. But if this is IT - if this is the "end game" of the whole deeyarvatu/forced relationship situation, if this is ALL the "lesson" we're going to see Gulaal take away from what happened in the past weeks, then really.. I'm disappointed..

Coming to the other small bits in the show - I loved how Mota-bha did not let Kesar OR Gulaal off the hook for their impulsive/whimsical handling of this situation.. The way these two have been so pigheaded about what they want and so "irrational quick" about making life altering decision (not just ones that alter their lives, but everyone else's too!), I really felt they DESERVED every word out of Mota-bha's mouth! I absolutely cheered when he didn't let Kesar off the hook by his "App ki tabiyat kharab thie comment" or when he didn't let Gulaal off with her "You mean the world to us" speech! Actions speak louder than words my dear.. And this time around BOTH of you guys' actions did tell a whole other story - where all your decisions were made keeping each other in mind (in a positive OR negative context).. This time around, your actions totally did paint a different picture.. *smirks*

Err.. and about Taali.. Umm.. I don't know.. I feel she's to numb for comfort these days.. I can't read her - I don't know what's going through her head.. She does seem genuine towards Kesar and Gulaal's happiness.. But then there are moments where she has these expressions that I can't read - like I'm not sure what she's thinking.. If she's happy, sad, defeated or just HOPING.. *shrugs* I don't know.. But I'm going to hope that she doesn't make the SAME mistake twice.. 😕

*phew* Alright then.. I guess that's my solitary rant for the day.. Until tomorrow! 😆
Blueberry_07 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#43

Ooh excellent post, JZee!

Am very confused abt the episode. All i would say is, many things were going on simultaneously ... 😆
I just caught up with the 4th July epi as well. So will mention afew from there. That first scene of Talli with Kesar made it seem that all along the writers were trying to show Kesar in the wrong hence him apologising to Gulaal was ONLY what we were gonna get and not vice versa. The intentions of the writers were never to show Gulaal in an apologetic mode (which i wish were the case as well coz so far whatever Kesar did was the cause of Gulaal's actions so technically she is also in the wrong) but rather to show her accepting Kesar's mistakes. The word "zabardasti" is the key point here. The fact that he "forced" Gulaal automatically puts him in the wrong. 😳 I feel, that is. I could be wrong as well.
The "Aurat" scene in the room between them. LOVED IT! How he took control there and kept her quiet. She knows he's right but she's never gonna accept it, that's for sure. And by Kesar apologising to her the next day (yst's epi) it was just a way for her to avoid (i feel so tempted to say dodge😆) all the facts he's said abt her. She's being ignorant by choice here. And Kesar, well he's too happy that she's gone back to old times with him that i doubt he's ever gonna bring it up again ... I hope he does though. The look on Gulaal face when he said all that .. MAN i was like "Yeaaa finally someone's putting you in your spot! How does it feel like huh? Having no control?" 🤣
Anyway coming back to the yst's episode. Just to clear my thoughts, i'll lay it out in point form. Ya'll must have already gone through them but i just need to put it out still to feel less confused ... 😆
Gulaal/Kesar scenes : First scene was nice. Who would have thought that that's ALL that was needed to tone Gulaal down. 😆 I thought she'll still be rough with him but seeing her all "appreciative" of his actions were so hard to believe. I wished she had apologise for her actions as well .. but as we all know, Gulaal never thinks she's in the wrong. Though that Motabha scene shd have made her realise her mistake ...oh well!
Similarity in Gulaal/Kesar first scene and Kesar/Talli last scene : SO TRUE! I was so put off by Talli standing in the kitchen to even realise the similarity in both the scenes but just role reversal for Kesar. In that case, i would say it's really pathetic of Talli to be habouring any hopes on her and Kesar STILL by saying the line "Agar woh tumhari hai toh woh zaroor wapas aayegi (in her mind AayegA going on 🤣)" It's a lil' to freaky, to be honest, on Talli's part gaining assurance that way 😆😆😆
Motabha dialogue: That last line of his on how their actions will come back to haunt them one day ... Yikess! That did seem like a hint that maybe, just maybe Gulaal might fall in love with Kesar. Then followed by refrences being made by Raman and Talli .. Hmm ..
I woudn't call Kesar a bachcha no more. Ever since that whole "Freaked out pep talk" given by Talli (🤣) the realisation just hit him hard! That scene with Poonam and then the one with Talli on how he broke the deeyarvattu off not with the intention that she'll love him in mind, but rather for her happiness just goes to show his maturity level. He now knows how to control his emotions. Only Gulaal has to see this matured side to him and that is where the problem is. She's never gonna see him that way OR more like she doesn't want to. She overheard him talking to Poonam but she brushes it off in split seconds. It's her part of not wanting to see this matured side to Kesar.
That milk scene and also how she assured him abt Motabha just felt so much like Gulaal treating him like a kid, back in the old days. As much as i want to believe it's friendship kinda bond like Kesar and Talli has, it did felt more like the Gulaal and young Kesar bond instead. She thinking that she has a right over him. So agreeing with Anu here.
BUT a significant moment, as u've mentioned out JZee. The scene where Kesar says he's gotta to learn how to adapt without Gulaal after 3 mths ... there was a different expression coming from Gulaal. The way her eyes, from looking off the ground, slowly met his. I don't know, there was deffo something in that scene. I just can't find the right words now.. 😆 I wanted to say a moment of "shyness" but it just felt too weird saying that 🤣 I felt like she was happy hearing him say that. 😆 Just like how he's wondering what it'll be like w/o Gulaal 3 mths later, Gulaal too is feeling the same. Subconsciously that is. Maybe she too can't live w/o him but she doesn't quite know it yet.
Talli spoilt that whole morning scene by standing there and watching. WHYYY did she have to turn up man??!! I was expecting a cute scene where Kesar makes chai but getting it all wrong and eventually Gulaal helping him ... but duh, Talli just had to stalk them, like she always does. Am with ya on getting Dushyant and Talli hitched! 🤣 Talli can totally help him out in the panchayat business... seeing how she's giving free advices nowadays 🤣
Precap - As much as i love how Gulaal gives back to Jamna kaki ... i hope she doesn't make use of the r/s she has with Kesar along the way. How she specifically said "mein Kesar ki saath" with the classic Gulaal *eyebrow movement* (🤣) hmm i didn't quite like that. Just like how she used to push Talli to Kesar then to make things easier for her.. she's somewhat doing the same by telling Jamnu kaki off through Kesar ... 😕 ...
Edited by Blueberry_07 - 14 years ago
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Posted: 14 years ago
#44
Can I begin by saying you've summed up everyone's comments here and added your own (and better) sense to it wonderfully? 👏 Has to be one of best comprehensives of yesterday's episode. I'm adding my remarks back to your observations below.

It's interesting that when she'd first entered and Kesar had turned upon her with the mujhe maaf karde Gulaal - it was my last moment of logic in the episode. Just that second I did think how could apologize like that, because it was putting the most crucial bedroom conversation to redundancy; and I did realize Gulaal had walked in not knowing for one second what she should expect - thereon, I suppose, even more than Kesar (while watching) I was sucked in by Gulaal's mahaan words 😆 No seriously, I think I'd been too deprived of Gulaal ever give Kesar even the mere can civilly co-exist status, and I just ceased to think this was going back to square one. Interestingly, like you say, Kesar's expressions do seem like he wasn't duped as fast as me - well he wasn't duped at all, he only chose to let it go, given his let Gulaal go move had been bigger than this. Anyway - at that point I was comprehending Kesar's not immediate flood of happiness at Gulaal forgiving him as being shallowed by his realization that Gulaal is expressing so much 'freedom' and 'happiness' in being freed from his shackles - and I thought that at least part of that irony had hit him bad. Even as he was ready to push all of 'himself' as secondary to Gulaal (who btw has been professed the epitome of sacrifice in this show) it did kill him - the fact that she should be so happy about their end. I still think a part of his expressions was that; but the majority factor has to be what you point out, his awareness of her relieved regression. He can see she's back to square one - what's worse, when she uses the word khushi, you can see he knows this time he wont be standing in the way of regression and her. [although, I like to think, at this point, that while his current plan may be to let Gulaal be, just so they can have this happy delusional state - he's going to snap eventually. Kesar may have been previously impulsive and immature - but he was never the one pulling off an ostrich act.] When he tells her this is all going to end in 3 months, her face clouds again, because her antenna has detected foreboding of Kesar the man mode - but more than her, noticing him is proof that he's very broken and resigned. It's not simply from letting her go - it's from accepting defeat to reforming her self destructive means. It's resigning from making her see light of the day - he's just tired. And when he tells her to be friends, and she looks indecisive, he adds itna to hum kar hi sakte hain It is every sense of a pun. As if of asking her if this doesn't invade her boundaries of 'purity' and become paap - being friends - like he's just indicating warily there there is no preach speech she can give against this... at least this! And you can see Gulaal gives in because because she can see there's no choice - but she comes around to spin off the friendship to a patronizing role anyway.

I think what really did go down well with me all through the episode - and still sits as a satisfied duck - is Kesar calling a spade a spade. He's given up on the aggression to make his point, but at no moment in the episode does he lie to her or himself, or anyone. When he's apologizing it's not to simply win back her good side and certainly not to offer her the half way grounds to make peace - but truly in repentance of his old unknowing tactics. When she accepts his apology and hand of friendship - he knows exactly what he's stepping into, but he does it because 'Gulaal's happiness is primary'. He realizes this is not the real happiness he wants to give her, but he's also come to realize this is the only way he can take a shot at its inception. When he tells Gulaal it maybe 3 months for him to get over being used to her, or more, or (never) - he's candid as hell. No doubt he can see the closing walls in her face - but he doesn't lie. He's stopped screaming his lungs off it - and he's not rubbing the 'love' in her face - but he's not masking himself as another person like she is either.

I thought the kitchen scene in the start was particularly double edged. She tells him that he must still believe that if MB is upset with them , it hasn't affected his love for them - and it's almost like she's speaking her mind - and even though she may not know or realize, Kesar does. When he asks her, hum mana lenge na... - It's almost in double meaning, like MB is not the only person he talks of. Interestingly, Gulaal's approach to MB's topic is exactly reflective of her nature - of how she truly does care for people in her life, but how innate it is within her, this sense of I can convince anyone to finally fall in line with me. In some ways she's like a young teen - who cannot comprehend or appreciate the fact that she can be wrong ... because she's always been taken as more mature of teens, and because conveniently within her own own head she has translated that to imply she is know it all and know it best and that no one understands everything like she does. Point being, Kesar knows exactly what he's doing and what he's letting happen. It is therein I rest my faith that he will snap to Gulaal's illusions at some critical point - perhaps he's then, gong to be the one to serve her the pointer, as Talli served him one. We've all surprised and shocked ourselves with Talli's genius, but thing is, she always did understand Gulaal on this front and could hence explain it to Kesar. However, to imagine she has become wise or smart - er, no. She still has no idea how Kesar's mind works - she is not one second closer to getting inside his head and that is what... sort of pokes my ease about TK in one frame.

Anyway - thanks for the comment Fivr - like I said, very well analyzed.


Yash141 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#45
I'm still hopeful...bt yet a bit worried of why they aren't changing the montage of Gul-Kes-Talli... That means they are still on that track... It's so frustrating to see that for 3 times a day yaar...
surithy thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#46

Jzee,nureat01 and fivr-amazing analysis-I did have the same feelings about Gulaal on the first instinct. You guys left me nothing to say on my part except to agree with you. Amazing analysis.

I did have the same feelings for Thalli as you guys, I don't know why but I doubt if she is really genuine, I could be wrong, but a girl who could give this sort of hope to Kesar, wouldn't she be having the same hope? But I loved that Kesar made his stance and said I didn't do it in any hope for me but for Gulaal, which indirectly or simultaneously indicating don't have the same hope on me sort of thing.

Jzee-you are right Kesar was not lying to him or to anyone else and I also think he will do something to trigger her again in future. You are bang on about his mind and Thalli. Love your post, gives lots of space for discussion. Well done!

Fivr-don't think you spoiled any of our happiness by having this discussion, I bet like you there are many of us who had the same feelings. It is always nice to see disagreement and discussion. Thank you for bringing it on.

AreYaar thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago
#47
Today's epi was much better than yesterday's IMO...today Gulaal wasn't able to act AS patronizing towards Kesar 😛😆

Will look forward to your analysis today, Jzee!
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Posted: 14 years ago
#48
Heavy duty episode - if you ask me too much second guessing (I'm not saying it in a bad way though) ... today will take another round of watching, if I have my way... be back shortly!
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Posted: 14 years ago
#49
Why is your curious version 'evil' with horns, Reemz? 🤔 Don't try to scare me! I is brave 🤓
AreYaar thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago
#50

Originally posted by: JZephyr

Heavy duty episode - if you ask me too much second guessing (I'm not saying it in a bad way though) ... today will take another round of watching, if I have my way... be back shortly!



You found TODAY heavy duty?? Arey heavy duty was yesterday when I didn't know what to think😆...honestly today toh things started to seem clearer to me.

In general, all Gulaal epis need two rounds of watching to get a better sense😆

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