Swara bhaskar abuses (mods move it to debate mansion)

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riti4u

@riti4u

Stunner

+ 7

Posted: 9 years ago

#91

Originally posted by: Vedika211

No we should not treat them separately. We should counter arguments with arguments, not with threats of arrest and mob violence. If you dislike what Umar Khalid says, answer him. Argue with him. Write articles that show that his thinking is wrong and twisted.

I am also a historian. I am also writing about the history of India, independence history to be precise. And I would want people to counter my arguments with arguments, not with a rally outside my door.

See its good to have arguments, we have all kind of people in our society and vibrant democracy involves different viewpoints but what these people said were hate speeches as i mentioned earlier. Whether it was youthful error or josh or some preplanned agenda against country we dont know . But the fact is that he and his mates did break law that night and police took action. I dont support those over excited bunch of "patriots" who beat kanhaiya in court too but i also dont agree with those who protect these students in name of freedom of speech.. especially when we have something like Kashmir issue

Edited by riti4u - 9 years ago

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853244

Suspended

Posted: 9 years ago

#92

Originally posted by: Vedika211

No we should not treat them separately. We should counter arguments with arguments, not with threats of arrest and mob violence. If you dislike what Umar Khalid says, answer him. Argue with him. Write articles that show that his thinking is wrong and twisted.
I am also a historian. I am also writing about the history of India, independence history to be precise. And I would want people to counter my arguments with arguments, not with a rally outside my door.

Rational discourse is quite different from rabble rousing, no one has a problem if you engage in discourse, but to start calling for the destruction of the nation. shouting pro-pakistan slogans, wanting to fulfill the dreams of a dead terrorist, are not "arguments", they are incendiary and inflammatory outbursts to provoke.

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Vedika211

@Vedika211

Inactive

Posted: 9 years ago

#93

Originally posted by: gatheringstorm

Yes but then who called out a rally first?? Why did they have to resort to sloganeering rather than presenting their viewpoint in a manner more befitting their stature as students of a prestigious university??

If they have a right to rally support for what they think is wrong how can we question the right of those rallying in opposition to them??

They did not call a rally. They had organised an evening of poetry, an art exhibition and a discussion. In JNU there are these sorts of events organised by all sorts of political parties. At this particular event, the ABVP people came and broke up the event. When I studied in DU, all sorts of events took place - from the most conservative ones championing building a temple at Ayodhya to the most liberal ones asking for the removal of AFSPA from Assam and Kashmir - and everyone thought that those who did not agree with them were useless, but no event was disrupted. It was a matter of pride for everyone that you could discuss all sorts of views. Every since Modi came to power, the ABVP has been systematically disrupting all events that criticise any right-wing ideology. At JNU too they stopped the event. And so there were two groups of students who left the venue immediately - the people who had organised the meeting and those who had disrupted it. Both groups were shouting slogans. In fact, there are some people who claim that it was the ABVP students who shouted the slogans because they were the ones recording it. That is something of which I have never seen any proof, so I don't believe it blindly. Anyway, the situation was that both groups were getting aggressive so Kanhaiya was called to calm it down. He came, gave a speech where he categorically did not raise any slogans. The situation diffused and people dispersed. The next day a small group of students had a protest to say that the ABVP should not disrupt events, that events should be allowed to go on. That evening Kanhaiya was arrested.

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Vedika211

@Vedika211

Inactive

Posted: 9 years ago

#94

Originally posted by: gatheringstorm

So then why are we not letting the courts decide here too...if they feel it challenges the sovereignty and integrity of the nation, they will be punished. Why are we playing judge and jury, why is their arrest being seen as illegal??

Because the people arrested are not the people who were shouting slogans. That is the main reason why their arrest is being called illegal.

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angrybread

@angrybread

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 9 years ago

#95

Originally posted by: riti4u

@angrybird- Where did i question whole university 😳 , I am only talking of those students and their supporters.

You didn't question the whole university but that's all over media , these people are after whole university and want it shut down because it raises students to question everything ( so called left) trending shut down JNU , it has been called marxist/naxalists and what not . before doing this did they think about other students too , there was this girl student who on TV said that when she asked auto rickshaw to take her to JNU driver said shall i take you to pakistan , can you believe the heartache she and many other facing because of the whole episode .

As for me , i am always taking about university as a whole those who shouted anti-national slogan don't warrant my time on them .

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Vedika211

@Vedika211

Inactive

Posted: 9 years ago

#96

Originally posted by: Heisenberg.

Rational discourse is quite different from rabble rousing, no one has a problem if you engage in discourse, but to start calling for the destruction of the nation. shouting pro-pakistan slogans, wanting to fulfill the dreams of a dead terrorist, are not "arguments", they are incendiary and inflammatory outbursts to provoke.

They did not start with a rally. Umar usually makes his arguments in seminars, conferences and so on. There was an event organised that evening, with songs, art exhibitions and debate. The slogans came when the event was disrupted and both groups of students - the organisers and the disrupters - moved out. There were both shouting loudly by that time.

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angrybread

@angrybread

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 9 years ago

#97

Originally posted by: riti4u

So if some morons were making fun there ,does that mean all indians who want action against JNU students fall in same category? On one end you say that whole JNU university should not be branded and on the other hand you are targetting moral conscience of everyone who is against JNU students like Khalid ?

I am talking about social media as poster talked about social media and yes many of them making fun of her are the same people who are after JNU university .

Edited by angrybread - 9 years ago

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Eggon_Snow

@Eggon_Snow

Sparkler

+ 6

Posted: 9 years ago

#98

Originally posted by: angrybread

Didn't read the whole para but BJP are getting a taste of their own medicine , they questioned and mocked congress of doing the same things with regards to pakistan, kashmir so how come now its alright for them . They said something else before coming to power and doing something else after coming to power . Their party members can only question indian nationals and that's about it . The fact that they name called, insulted and mocked manmohan singh all the time for being quiet while can't tolerate any criticism on their part while or PM is still silent .
You didn't like me equating Jat protest as anti national activity but alright with a whole university being targeted as anti -national 😕 and no i am not a congressi or naxalite or from samajwadi party, aap party or lalu/nitish's party nor do i belong to left .

Maybe you should read what I wrote before preaching cause I haven't written a word about whether what the Jats did is anti-national or not. 😕

Anyways your hatred towards the BJP is quite blinding so an attempt at a rational conversation with you on this issue is impossible.

Edited by gatheringstorm - 9 years ago

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Vedika211

@Vedika211

Inactive

Posted: 9 years ago

#99

When Afzal Guru was hung, the judgement said that the court was not fully convinced if he was guilty or innocent, but because the incident had left a deep mark on the nation, he was sentenced to death. At that time, there were a lot of commentators and thinkers who challenged the judgement and wrote long articles about how it was unjust. You may disagree with Umar Khalid, but he is working within a scholarly position that already exists.

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853244

Suspended

Posted: 9 years ago

#100

Originally posted by: Vedika211

See, that is not how it works.
He should be first investigated, then arrested only if he is a viable threat. That is what the Intelligence Bureau does. Do you know how many people make threats? Lots of them. The Bureau also takes them seriously. Those that are deemed serious are followed up. That is why it keeps a list of individuals, including students, who have the potential to be involved in terrorist activities. The police are supposed to work in tandem with them. Here the police took a fake Twitter account and a doctored video for proof. The Intelligence Bureau said that it did not perceive these people as threats. Even then, they are being beaten up inside the prison and the students and teachers who turn up at court to show their support are also beaten up.

You can be charged and sentenced for making bomb threats even if you don't carry it out, it's a serious threat not to be taken lightly or as a joke. I agree that they should not have been beaten them up, but I do think that they should be investigated and let the courts decide.

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