Swara bhaskar abuses (mods move it to debate mansion) - Page 11

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Vedika211 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
If you google the Indian map in India, google maps shows Kashmir as part of India. If you google it in Pakistan, they show it as part of Pakistan. If you google it in a third country like America or Australia, it shows the territory as disputed. How come these nationalists are not at the google office, demanding that they show only one map with Kashmir as part of India? Why do they accept Americans calling the territory occupied (as the UN and the American government does) but not other Indian people who may be speaking within an academic context? Umar Khaled was cut off in the Times Now debate when Arnab started speaking and refused to let him finish. Part of the reason that the media went on a witch hunt behind JNU students is simply TRPs. It is good to manufacture outrage.
853244 thumbnail
Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Vedika211


They did not start with a rally. Umar usually makes his arguments in seminars, conferences and so on. There was an event organised that evening, with songs, art exhibitions and debate. The slogans came when the event was disrupted and both groups of students - the organisers and the disrupters - moved out. There were both shouting loudly by that time.



Sure, but the problem isn't seminars and conferences, the problem people have the antinational sloganeering, which should not be tolerated in university campuses or anywhere for that matter, in a civil society there are certain boundaries.
angrybread thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: gatheringstorm


Maybe you should read what I wrote before replying cause I haven't written a word about whether what the Jats did is anti-national or not. 😕

Anyways your hatred towards the BJP is quite blinding so an attempt at a rational conversation with you on this issue is impossible.


Ofocurse i am a hater because i question them on what they said seena thok thok kar at the time of elections . I am definitely a hater when i voted them , even though i was never a supporter of BJP, because congress and any other parties left me no choice and i though that may be they will do good otherwise they will just keep screaming so they should also get a chance to prove them .

Anyone who questions gets labelled as hater and what not - that's something new which started and god forbid if you say something on social media platform then the amount of abuse you get is unmentionable
Vedika211 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Heisenberg.



You can be charged and sentenced for making bomb threats even if you don't carry it out, it's a serious threat not to be taken lightly or as a joke. I agree that they should not have been beaten them up, but I do think that they should be investigated and let the courts decide.

I agree that a bomb threat is not a joke. But here's the thing: even if there is a bomb threat, the investigation happens before the arrest. No one is saying "don't let the courts decide". But before the courts decide, the police has to find some proof. In this case, the police cited a fake Twitter account and a doctored video as proof. And worst of all, they do even seem to be looking for the actual students who raised those protests.
The reason for this procedure is simple. Every year, there are millions (not thousands) of tip-offs to police and security services. The serious ones are followed up, the random ones are discarded and yes, the joke ones can sometimes be followed up and punished, so that other people don't do it as a joke.
853244 thumbnail
Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Vedika211

If you google the Indian map in India, google maps shows Kashmir as part of India. If you google it in Pakistan, they show it as part of Pakistan. If you google it in a third country like America or Australia, it shows the territory as disputed. How come these nationalists are not at the google office, demanding that they show only one map with Kashmir as part of India? Why do they accept Americans calling the territory occupied (as the UN and the American government does) but not other Indian people who may be speaking within an academic context? Umar Khaled was cut off in the Times Now debate when Arnab started speaking and refused to let him finish. Part of the reason that the media went on a witch hunt behind JNU students is simply TRPs. It is good to manufacture outrage.



Probably because America is not in India?, I guess they would have a problem if Indians started calling it occupied territory, but yeh, not really going to delve into this whole Kashmir mess.
Vedika211 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Heisenberg.



Sure, but the problem isn't seminars and conferences, the problem people have the antinational sloganeering, which should not be tolerated in university campuses or anywhere for that matter, in a civil society there are certain boundaries.

The sloganeering happened in a context when an event which was to be held for discussion was forcibly disrupted. I will say this again. To raise slogans is not the same as hate speech. The world over, a lot of people and movements ask for freedom. The successful ones become freedom struggles while the unsuccessful ones become terrorist movements. Governments have their own ways of dealing with these things - they put down some uprisings violently, they enforce military rule in some places, and they allow some places for people to have rallies and raise slogans. The last named are always seen as peaceful when compared to the others. India too has always had strong secessionist movements, with Khalistan being one example. As time went by, some got diffused and forgotten. That is why I feel that a group of people raising slogans is not a threat, neither to my nationalism nor to my country. But arresting that group and beating them up is a threat - precisely because it actually empowers the true terrorists, because now they can tell people "see peaceful protest is never going to get you anywhere".
Eggon_Snow thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Vedika211

When Afzal Guru was hung, the judgement said that the court was not fully convinced if he was guilty or innocent, but because the incident had left a deep mark on the nation, he was sentenced to death. At that time, there were a lot of commentators and thinkers who challenged the judgement and wrote long articles about how it was unjust. You may disagree with Umar Khalid, but he is working within a scholarly position that already exists.


So why not publish a paper or write an article on it?? Why make distasteful slogans demanding India be broken up.

And what about the families of those security personnel who were martyred in that attack on the Parliament?? Should our empathy not lie with them too?? Its a shame that a time has come when in the name of intellectual pursuit terrorists are being sympathised with on whose guilt a majority judgement was passed by the courts. SMH

As for the verdict, this is what I found

Supreme Court termed Afzal Guru a "menace to the society" while taking away his right to life

In its 271-page judgement delivered on August 4, 2005, a division bench had said there was clinching evidence against Afzal Guru regarding his nexus with the terrorists who carried out the attack on Parliament in 2001.

New Delhi, February 9, 2013 | UPDATED 20:03 IST
A +A -

The Supreme Court had while upholding Afzal Guru 's death sentence had termed the attack on Parliament in 2001 as an unparalelled assault on the supreme seat of democracy.

In its 271-page judgement delivered on August 4, 2005, a division bench of Justice P V Reddi and Justice P P Naolekar had said there was clinching evidence against Gururegarding his nexus with the terrorists who carried out the "terrorist act of most diabolical nature".

There was not even a shred of doubt about his complicity in hatching of the criminal conspiracy to attack Parliament and evidence showed that he had actively participated in its execution, it said.

"All evidences unerringly point to Afzal Guru, a key conspirator, who played an active role", the Bench said observing that by no standards his act could be termed innocuous.

"He is definitely involved in the conspiracy to attack Parliament with the use of explosive substances," Justice Reddi said observing that the attack had no parallel in the history of Indian democracy.

The Delhi High Court had upheld the death penalty to Afzal Guru.



While justifying the imposition of capital punishment on Guru, Justice Reddi had said the attack on Parliament was "a gravest crime of enormous severity" and was a classic case falling under the "rarest of rare" category.


"The collective conscience of the society will be satisfied only if the death penalty is awarded to Afzal Guru," the Bench had said.

While taking away his right to life, the court had said the manner in which he conspired to wage war against the nation and the support he extended for carrying out the criminal conspircay made him a "menace to the society".

The trial Court had awarded death penalty to Shaukat, Guru and Geelani while sentencing Afsan to five years imprisonment for their role in the December 13, 2001 terrorist attack on Parliament which had led to mobilisation of troops on the Indo-Pak border and brought the two countries on the brink of war.

The Delhi High Court had upheld the death penalty to Afzal and Shaukat under Sections 302 (murder), 121 (waging war against the nation) and Sections 3(2) and 4 of POTA but had acquitted both Geelani and Afsan.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/supreme-court-afzal-guru-hanging-parliament-attack-case/1/249630.html

NATIONAL

NEW DELHI, February 10, 2013
Updated: February 10, 2013 02:34 IST

The case against Afzal


Supreme Court noted that terrorists made phone calls to him minutes before Parliament attack

Phone calls made by Fidayeen' terrorists to Afzal Guru minutes before the attack on Parliament coupled with circumstantial evidence proved beyond reasonable doubt that he played an active part in the conspiracy, the Supreme Court had said.

The apex court, in its August 2005 verdict, had noted that just before the attack on Parliament on December 13, 2001, Guru had received calls on his mobile phone from one of the terrorists Mohammed " at 10:43 AM, 11:00 AM and 11:25 AM.

The bench said transcripts of the call details established that Mohammed had told Guru that he and the others were going to execute the plan.

The bench also took into consideration that Guru was instrumental in providing hideout and accommodation to the terrorists at Gandhi Vihar and Indira Vihar in north Delhi, and played a key role in arranging the logistics such as the purchase of chemicals used for preparing the explosives.

Guru had also identified the bodies of five terrorists, Mohammed, Haider, Hamza, Rana and Raja, killed during the gun battle by the security personnel inside Parliament complex.

The court had noted that the evidence had established that Afzal Guru was in contact with the terrorists and three other accused " S. A. R. Geelani, the Delhi University college lecturer, his cousin Shaukat Hussain Guru, and Afsan Guru alias Navjot Sandhu.

"As is the case with most of the conspiracies, there is and could be no direct evidence of the agreement amounting to criminal conspiracy. However, the circumstances cumulatively considered and weighed, would unerringly point to the collaboration of the accused Afzal Guru with the slain Fidayeen' terrorists. The circumstances, if considered together, as it ought to be, establish beyond reasonable doubt that Afzal Guru was a party to the conspiracy and had played an active part in various acts done in furtherance of the conspiracy," a bench comprising Justice P. V. Reddi and Justice P. P. Naolekar had said in the judgement.


http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/the-case-against-afzal/article4397845.ece


P.S. I don't see where the verdict of the Supreme Court hinted at his innocence, the only point of debate was whether he should have been awarded the death sentence because he was a planner and conspirator and not the excecutor of the attack. Also the other debate was on how he was hanged without sufficient intimation to his family. His culpability according to the SC was proven beyond doubt.


Edited by gatheringstorm - 9 years ago
Vedika211 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Heisenberg.



Probably because America is not in India?, I guess they would have a problem if Indians started calling it occupied territory, but yeh, not really going to delve into this whole Kashmir mess.


But there are Indian historians/thinkers/writers/filmmakers too who call it disputed territory. And without going into Kashmir, I will say simply this. It is not only about not going to America. It is also about who is seen as powerful and who isn't. Google has an office in India, but Google is a powerful multinational. Governments the world over want to keep peace with them as much as possible.
angrybread thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
As per recent update: now the video shows people from outside and not JNU students who were shouting kashmir slogans😆- bloody mess .
Now the allegations are why JNU students didn't stop these oeple hence they are anti-nationals 😆
Edited by angrybread - 9 years ago
Eggon_Snow thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: angrybread

As per recent update: now the video shows people from outside and not JNU students who were shouting kashmir slogans😆- bloody mess .

Now the allegations are why JNU students didn't stop these oeple hence they are anti-nationals 😆


Soon those outsiders will be identified as ABVP activists who masterminded the whole plan in the first place, waiting for this to happen😆

Involvement of political parties should be banned in colleges, student unions should be made completely neutral.

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