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cts22

@cts22

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+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#111

Kunti was far more shrewd, politically astute and cunning than Draupadi,

Draupadi though extremely intelligent was more straightforward.

Draupadi was the queen while Kunti was more like today's generation of kingmaker

Kunti also had more influence over the pandavas than Draupadi.

Hi Captain spark(sorry don't know your name)

you are right Kunti never asked Karna to spare her sons lives, it was Karna who promised her that he will not kill them.

Going to Karna before the war was a brilliant political move, she knew that the Kauravas would not be able to kill the pandavas,

Bhishma would'nt and nor would Drona.

In fact the The only person capable of killing the Pandavas was Karna who would not have any qualms on killing them as he hated the Pandavas.

What better way to stop Karna than to tell him the truth, that way knowing that the pandavas were his brothers Karna would not be able to kill them.

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Brishti Sarkar

@CaptainSpark

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 10 years ago

#112

Agree with you! I am Brishti. 😃

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Nandita

@Nandita_Siddian

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#113

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Lovely post 👏👏👏

Kunti is my favourite character after Arjuna. Agree with whatever you just said. But I think she did love Karna. And if we see the citation of Karna Kunti meeting properly, Kunti NEVER asked Karna to give the life of her five sons. I don't know why people call her a beggar. She was the strongest woman of the epic IMHO. It is Karna who said she has five sons, she will have five after war too. (We all know what he meant.) Kunti wanted Karna in her side, Kunti never asked Karna to spare his five sons. And most importantly, Karna DID NOT spare Arjuna either. So anyway, Kunti had to see one of her sons dying.

We all focus on Karna's greatness and his so called sad life. Never do we turn to see Kunti's side. This is so unfair. I mean Kunti had the worst life among all in the epic. She had no choice other than letting Karna in the water because otherwise she would be making situations worse for Karna. And it is very difficult when you just cannot say the truth when you know very well who Karna is. But if she would have said that to him or anyone before, would that not be unfair for Yudhishthir, for all her sons? She had NOTHING in her life. Is it very wrong to ask for her own sons to rule and wanting that and taking certain steps? Also, it wasn't that Karna was still floating in water. Karna had a much better life than he would have with Kunti. He had support of the Kurus, he was King of Anga, he had loving foster parents, he had everything!! So should Kunti not focus on her three other sons? And as you said, she got no love from anyone else. Atleast she wanted her sons to be with her! Also, Kunti could turn situation in her favour, control her sons etc. Karna was not in this cage of hers. Wasn't that good? Kunti is one phenomenal woman, and deserves much more respect than she gets IMHO.

well ..i am extremely sorry but i feel its an biased post...i can understand you are a kunti fan but being a fan of someone means not that become just blind to her each and every act...

when a man deny his responsibility the he is an villian..but when a woman deny her responsibility then she is a victim?????is their any logic in that type of comment????someone arise here the issue of feminism...but sorry, for me feminism is equal to mannerism...and its not for only the claim but for action...when a bachelor mother under his full consent doing sex with someone then she is can not be termed as raped one...kunti very well knew that what she was doing...but she was just did not wanted to take any responsibility of her own deed...it was nothing but cowardliness...

Now come to your point...karna had a good life...yes i admit that karna had a good life at least better than Pandavas and kunti...but is there any credit of kunti in that ????

1. Karna had an awesome foster parents...infact after lord krishna it was only karna who was blessed by that type of awesome foster parents in whole indian mythology...but is there any credit of kunti as a mother?????when she abandon him , was she knew that he would got so loving foster parents in his life?????answer is no...she abandon him just without thinking anything on him ...it was Adhirath and Radha who were so high souled person that they accept an unknown child and loved him more than their own bio child...i really admire veda vayas here who was so strong writer who could show the truth that humble ppl were actually golden hearted than the royal ppl...royal ppl only think about their own selfish reason ..where as common ppl are much better than them in the case of humanity...😊

2. karna got the best teacher in his life ...yes i personally believe that he was blessed with best teacher of aryavat...if he was with pandavas he definitely will go to a teacher who actually did business in the term on education...but it was karna's fate who saved him from that cunning teacher ...but here also we know that how he got that best teacher in his life and what he paid for it..under the circumstance he lied to his teacher whom he loved and respected most ...in the rest part of the epic no where is written that he ever lied to anyone...so its not very tough to understand that his lie was how much tough for him ...and at the last he got curse from his teacher for his misdeed...when he did misdeed then he got curse...but when the society did misdeed towards him then no one was there to save him...kunti was very interested on the education on his rest of five sons...but she never ever think for karn's education!!!!!! was not it a selfish being of a mother????

3. karna got anga...but is there any credit of kunti????i think it was a sole decision of duryadhan which was supported by Dhritrastra ..kunti had no influence there...

4. karna got good life partner ...but they were also adhirath and radha's selection ..there was no credit of kunti..

so as a mother what was exactly her role in Karna's good life?????he was not floating on the water and that credit was not at all goes to kunti..all the credit goes to he himself and his foster parents , his wife/wives and duryadhan only...

now come to my point ...if kunti was not at all interested on karn...if kunti never helped him in any way...then how she went to mess up his life ??????she knew that he was the leader of the enemies...she knew that he had a too much bitterness towards her sons...for her he was an wicked soul...then how as a woman she went to meet with him?????it was a height of shameless ness...it was an utterly inhuman ,shrewd cunning tricks by her to demoralize him ..nothing elas...and she had no right to do that...and it was karna's greatness that he acknowledge that cunning mother and spared the life of her 4 sons..

i have no problem if anybody love kunti or admire kunti...admiration depends on someone's own POV...but i have problem if someone down the greatness of my fav karn to show the greatness and helplessness of kunti..

and one more thing how the truth of karna could became unfair to yudi or arjun or bheem?????i could not get your point here!!!!!.it was very clearly writen in the epic that karna was always very affectionate towards his relatives and friends...then how can you say that he would not become equal or even more affectionate towards pandavas?????they lost their father at a young age...was not they need a support of a strong man like karna who was their elder bro?????many ppl said that duryadhan initially did his friendship with karna for his selfish intention...but it was loyalty and affection of karna which made him a true friend of karna...was not that affection was actually the right of pandavas.???????.i am extremely sorry but i must say ..for me it was duryadhan who hijacked the affection of karna towards him which was actually the right of pandavas..and its all thank to mata kunti...😊

i can totally justify the anger and frustration of yudi towards kunti after that the revelation of karna's birth secrete ...she not only ditched karna ...but also cheated pandavas too only to cover up her own misdeed...it was only kunti mata for whom the actual right of pandavas were gone to duryadhan...who knows that may be the revelation at the right time would saved them from the greatest misery of their life????

Edited by Nandita_Siddian - 10 years ago

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 10 years ago

#114

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark
Kunti is my favourite character after Arjuna. Agree with whatever you just said. But I think she did love Karna. And if we see the citation of Karna Kunti meeting properly, Kunti NEVER asked Karna to give the life of her five sons. I don't know why people call her a beggar. She was the strongest woman of the epic IMHO. It is Karna who said she has five sons, she will have five after war too. (We all know what he meant.) Kunti wanted Karna in her side, Kunti never asked Karna to spare his five sons. And most importantly, Karna DID NOT spare Arjuna either. So anyway, Kunti had to see one of her sons dying.

We all focus on Karna's greatness and his so called sad life. Never do we turn to see Kunti's side. This is so unfair. I mean Kunti had the worst life among all in the epic. She had no choice other than letting Karna in the water because otherwise she would be making situations worse for Karna. And it is very difficult when you just cannot say the truth when you know very well who Karna is. But if she would have said that to him or anyone before, would that not be unfair for Yudhishthir, for all her sons? She had NOTHING in her life. Is it very wrong to ask for her own sons to rule and wanting that and taking certain steps? Also, it wasn't that Karna was still floating in water. Karna had a much better life than he would have with Kunti. He had support of the Kurus, he was King of Anga, he had loving foster parents, he had everything!! So should Kunti not focus on her three other sons? And as you said, she got no love from anyone else. Atleast she wanted her sons to be with her! Also, Kunti could turn situation in her favour, control her sons etc. Karna was not in this cage of hers. Wasn't that good? Kunti is one phenomenal woman, and deserves much more respect than she gets IMHO.

I had mentioned this a few times in the ⭐️B thread, so I'll repeat it once here. Yeah, Kunti was helpless at the tournament, but it's not like she never got any private time w/ her sons since then. Why, that very night, she could have summoned her sons, told them who Karna really was, then summoned Karna and disclosed all to him. Karna wouldn't have remained in Dury's debt b'cos the moment Dury would have known that Karna was a Kaunteya, he'd have disowned him instantly and taken back Anga.

It's ridiculous to claim that Karna had a better life w/ Adirath - the best that can be claimed is that he wasn't worse off. In fact, the only advantage Karna had from not being claimed by Kunti was that he didn't have to suffer those 13 years in exile. Also, despite being Dury's friend (or perhaps bcos of it), he never had the support of the Kurus: he was hated by Drona, Kripa, Ashwatthama, Vidura et al. Bheeshma too openly hated him, although he later told Karna that he loved him as much as Dury or Yudhi (I think Bheeshma was lying).

The beef that one has w/ Kunti isn't merely her floating Karna away: it is coming back to claim him after too much has passed. Kunti could easily have approached Karna long b4 Varnavarta. Karna being king of Anga was there, but he too was subdued by Bhima, and was one of the many rulers who had to accept the suzerainty of Yudhi. If one reads the Vana Parva section in question (don't feel like excavating it now), one will see that Kunti expecting that Karna, on getting to know who he was, would automatically join her sons. Nowhere in her private moments did she state that she'll get for Karna what he deserved. So stating above that Kunti was not a beggar is a blatant lie. Yeah, she didn't go to beg him to spare her sons' lives, she went to beg him to support her sons just b'cos he came out of her birth canal. And her offer to him of the throne was nothing short of a blatant bribe - she really wanted it for Yudhi, not him.

And where did this theory come from that nobody loved her? It's she who shamelessly stayed on at Hastinapur after her sons were exiled, instead of leaving for Dwarka or Kuntibhoj. She had no business remaining in Hastinapur, nor for that matter, leaving w/ Dhritarashtra & Gandhari. What was she - his concubine? She was very much loved both during her marriage (during which she held from her husband a secret that might have made him happy, given his predicament of not being able to procreate) and after marriage, had the full support of the Kuru elders, if not Dhritarashtra or Gandhari.

It's amazing what some people get away with only b'cos of their plumbing, and nothing else. Gandhari is one, and Kunti is another. Like I said once, if only Karna had a womb.

Edited by .Vrish. - 10 years ago

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cts22

@cts22

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+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#115

Hi Brishti,

Vrish and Nandini I am not denying that Kunti wronged Karna but not all misfortunes of Karna were her fault.

I think the biggest mistake of Kunti was that she allowed the pandavas to hate Karna and vice versa

She did not give a chance to the Pandavas to know about Karna and only informed them after his death for which the pandavas had to live with regret for their entire lives.

Sparing the lives of the pandavas was not asked by Kunti but it was Karna who had promised her that because he knew that he would not be able to kill them because they were his brothers.

Karna's revelation changed the relationship between Kunti and Pandavas, where before her every word was respected and adhered to, but after the truth, the pandavas respected her but saw through that she was flawed and human like anyone else and it was not the same relationship as before.

Compared to other mothers in the epic Kunti had the strongest hold of her sons and her word was the law for them, she had a lot of power over them, thats probably the reason she did not reveal Karna's truth to them, it was selfish and stupid but thats what makes her human.

I think it is kind of ironic but, Karna was more like her than any of her other sons.

Edited by cts22 - 10 years ago

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Chiillii

@Chiillii

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+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#116

@ vrish do you really expect a 13 year old to understand the consequence of their action. She was testing the mantra out of curiosity, she was not wanting to have a child. Even now parents put a lot of restrictions on children for precisely the same reason, being 13 year old they never understand the full implications of their actions even if they know the consequences.

Before blaming Kunti who was 13 year old adopted child why doesn't anyone blame surya. What was surya doing. If without telling anyone Parashara can raise vyasa why not surya raise his son. Does any one know drona's mother name.

He was god he had every resource and ability to take the child and give it to any surya worshipping Kshatriya who would have happily adopted the child as surya' blessings if he didn't want to raise Karna himself. Do you think a 13 year old girl will have the option of selecting suitable foster parents for her child.

You are asking what Kunti did or did not do in later life. What did surya do. Ganga managed to convince Parshuram to train Bheeshma. Could surya do that for his son. Given a kavach and kundal and responsibility over. In his whole life he just gave a piece of advice to Karna to not give his KK to Indra and if he must then ask Shakti in return. But he is God so he has no responsibilities

And as soon as Pandavas arrived in HP after Pandu's death, duryodhan openly decried the paternity of her children that Pandavas are not sons of gods. And what would have happened if she said she had a child before marriage. All her 5 children would have been thrown out of HP. Pandu was not alive to defend her. Ambika ambalika niyog happened in the palace under bheeshma's blessing. Whereas Kunti and Madri went through it in a forest. How will citizens of Hastinapur accept . A child who had already fend for himself and had a reasonably good life. Just to give him a Kshatriya status she should jeopardize her other son's life.

He had a happy life, loving parents , wife and children, kingdom wealth and yes he had all got it by himself without any help from Kunti. But he had it. Her other children did not have it yet so she did not.

Same thing after Rajasuya also. Being a powerful emperor is no protection if question is raised on your paternity. Kansa was also powerful, he had Jarasandha support, but he always let himself known as ugrasen's son, though he was born when a rakshasa raped his mother. Pandavas earned their empire on their own merit but they were known as Pandavas. Pandu's children. Acknowledging Karna would put a question mark on their mother's charachter and therefore on their paternity.

And for this reason she did not tell her own sons, because they would happily throw away their life for their brother. But she did not want her sons to suffer for her mistake. She did not want Karna to die or any of her son's.

I am not being a feminist but this is fact of life. Ram and Sita both lived alone for a year but it was Sita who was asked to prove her chastity. No man has ever been questioned for having multiple wives, but Karna called Draupadi bandhaki for marrying five men.

And has any man ever been asked to prove his virginity. But a woman not virgin before marriage is immediately charachterised as unchaste and Why satyawati could acknowledge vyasa because parashara had not abandoned his son like surya. And Ved vyas had gained the respectability in society to protect his mother's honor. Karna had not earned that respectability for Kunti to acknowledge him openly without any consequences

Edited by Adishakti - 10 years ago

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Diala D

@...Diala...

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#117

Originally posted by: Adishakti

@ vrish do you really expect a 13 year old to understand the consequence of their action. She was testing the mantra out of curiosity, she was not wanting to have a child.

And as soon as Pandavas arrived in HP after Pandu's death, duryodhan openly decried the paternity of her children that Pandavas are not sons of gods.

1. Where does this 13 years old come from? Am not blaming her for what happened.. nor will I blame Surya.. he had a family to answer same way as Kunti had to.. but I cant agree that Kunti was a 'child' after knowing how well she administered the adhoc needs of Durvasa...

2. Nowhere did Duryodhan openly/secretly say anything of that sort.. 😕 as soon as Pandavas arrived at HP? 😲

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01127.htm

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01128.htm

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01129.htm

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 10 years ago

#118

Adishakti

RIF - Reading is Fundamental! Where did I say anything about Kunti invoking the mantra or floating away Karna? Every criticism of Kunti by me was as an adult - the tournament, her approaching Karna to get him to switch sides, and her thought processes b4 she went about it. Like I said, people who give her a pass support her for no other reason other than her being a woman, since women, as per TV serial makers since BRC, can do no wrong.

As per Durvasa's boon, the deva parents of the Pandavas had no responsibilities once Kunti (and Madri) gave birth. What did Yamaraj do for Yudhistir, other than test him? Indra entertained Arjun in Devalok, but that was in return for favors that Arjun and Krishna had done for him earlier. Oh, and he got Karna to part w/ his K-K, something that Surya-dev did warn Karna against. What did Vayu - or Hanuman - ever do for Bhima? What did the Ashwins do for Nakul or Sahadev? Squat.

Here is what the role of the deva fathers were - except for Arjun & Yudhistir, who found refuge w/ Vishnu. After their sons were dead, they brought them back to them for good. Bhima settled permanently w/ Vayu. NS w/ the Ashwins. Karna w/ Surya. That was the role of Surya, as well as the other devas whose sons weren't taken by Vishnu.

However, on bhulok, the responsibilities for the Pandavas rested w/ Kunti/Madri, and while he was alive, Pandu. Since Karna was adopted by Adirath, he was his responsibility, and that was accepted: all of Karna's marriages were arranged by Adirath & Radha. My condemnation of Kunti was re: her approaching him to join her sons after all they had done to him was insult him, and all she had done for him was - NOTHING. I don't hold it against the Pandavas for hating Karna - that blame falls squarely on Kunti's characterless Dhritarashtra/Gandhari-worshipping shoulders.

Edited by .Vrish. - 10 years ago

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hello45

@hello45

Beginner

Posted: 10 years ago

#119

I agree Kunti was not fair to Karn. But she was smart and strong and a good mother to Pandavs. I do not think she thought of Karn as her son. At the time of war she got afraid and went to him thinking he will listen as her other sons did. But she had no rights over him and no right even to tell him.

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cts22

@cts22

Navigator

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#120

Originally posted by: hello45
I agree Kunti was not fair to Karn. But she was smart and strong and a good mother to Pandavs. I do not think she thought of Karn as her son. At the time of war she got afraid and went to him thinking he will listen as her other sons did. But she had no rights over him and no right even to tell him.

Exactly Kunti thought that just like how the pandavas listened to her so would Karna but why would he, when she did not do anything for him.

but she was an awesome mother to the pandavas , I mean in the whole war only most of her sons were alive except Karna