Just for you...MR. AKHL!! - Page 10

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RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#91
Who is Sri Krishna?
Krishna is God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This fact is stated and corroborated in the Vedic scriptures and by various authorities. Lord Brahma in Brahma Samhita says, "Krishna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes" (BS 5.1). In the Bhagavata Purana Krishna becomes the chief object of devotion. After describing various incarnations of the Lord such as Rama, Balarama, Vamana, Nrsimha, and Vishnu, Srila Sukadeva Goswami states, "All of the above mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead" (SB 1.3.28). Lord Shiva in Gita Mahatmya, states that "only one God - Krishna, the son of Devaki" (Verse 7). In the Padma Purana it is stated, "By scrutinizingly reviewing all the revealed scriptures and judging them again and again, it is now concluded that Lord Narayana is the Supreme Absolute Truth, and thus He alone should be worshipped". Similarly it is said in the Skanda Purana, "In the material world, which is full of darkness and dangers, combined with birth and death and full of different
anxieties, the only way to get out of the great entanglement is to accept loving transcendental devotional service to Lord Vasudeva. This is accepted by all classes of philosophers". The position of Krishna as God is confirmed by great personalities like Narada, Asita, Devala, Vyasa, Parasara, Brahma and Shiva. Finally Krishna Himself confirms this fact in the Bhagavad-gita to His friend and devotee, Arjuna. He clearly says that He is "the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods" (BG 5.29), that "there is no truth superior to Me" (BG 7.7) and - "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me" (BG 10.8).
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What is Krishna avatar?
In Chaitanya-charitamrita (2.20.263-264) it is stated that the "avatar, or incarnation of Godhead, descends from the kingdom of God for creating and maintaining the material manifestation. And the particular form of the Personality of Godhead who so descends is called an incarnation, or avatar. Such incarnations are situated in the spiritual world, the kingdom of God. When They descend to the material creation, They assume the name avatar." The Srimad Bhagavatam states that there are countless incarnations just like the waves of the oceans. They fall in various categories like lila (pastime), yuga (period of yuga), manavantara (period of Manu), purusa (Vishnu expansions) and shaktivesa (empowered). These avatars perform various pastimes based on the time, place and circumstances, but their purpose is always the same - "to attract the conditioned souls back to their eternal spiritual abode". The incarnations emanate from Vishnu. Maha-Vishnu is the original cause of all material creation and from Him Garbhodakashai-Vishnu expands and then Ksirodakasayi-Vishnu. Generally all incarnations appearing within the material world are plenary portions of Ksirodakasayi-Vishnu (also known as Hari). However only once in a day of Lord Brahma (which lasts for 4.32 billion of our years), does Krishna descend in His original form, as the avataree, the cause of all avatars. When Krishna appears all the incarnations join with Him. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the complete whole and all the plenary portions and incarnations always live with Him. So when Krishna appeared, Lord Vishnu was always with Him, and while Krishna enjoyed His pastimes in Vrindavan, the killing of the demons was actually carried out by the His Vishnu portion. Since Krishna eternally resides in Vrindavan, when He left Vrindavan at the age of ten, it was His Vasudeva expansion that actually left.
http://www.theholidayspot.com/janmashtami/krishna_the_lord.htm
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#92
I do not see any need of 12 pages for this discussion, as it is clearly written in Shrimad Bhagavatham that Shri Krishna is the 8th incarnation of Lord Vishnu's Dasa Avataras (the 9th being Buddha, but for those who believe Balarama to be an incarnation of Vishnu, Krishna is the 9th).
One of Lord Vishnu's names is Krishna also (without the Krishna Avatar coming into consideration), since he is blue-hued, so yes, if you look at it in that way, Rama is an incarnation of Krishna, because Krishna is another name for Lord Vishnu, but the Krishna of the Dwapar Yug/Mahabharat is an incarnation of Krishna/Lord Vishnu. Lord Vishnu is not an incarnation of Shri Krishna of Dwapara Yug/Mahabharat. That itself does not make any sense, because Shri Krishna was born to Devaki and Vasudev, an avatar of Lord Vishnu, while Lord Vishnu did not have a birth.
And there were 7 or 8 avatars of Lord Vishnu before Shri Krishna (depending on which version you believe), so if Lord Vishnu is an avatar of Shri Krishna, that would make all the previous avatars born after him, which did not happen.
Angelz, I read the sources you gave, and I feel that you interpreted it wrong. The sources said Krishna is supreme God Head, the Supreme Lord, but that is none other than Lord Vishnu, and as i've already explained that Krishna is another name for Lord Vishnu before Krishna Avatar, that would make Shri Krishna of Dwapar Yug an avatar of Shri Krishna/Lord Vishnu, not the other way around.
anku- thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#93
HUH HUH HUH? LOOOL! I interpreted wrong?
Those verses clearly say that Lord Krishna is the cause of generation of Lord Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesha and I interpreted wrong? LOL!!
Just because everyone has heard till now that Lord Krishna is an incarnation of Lord Vishnu doesnt mean that the other way round is not right. I think Lalitha you should read once more all the shloks. Maybe you are interpreting wrong. Thanks!
anku- thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#94
And many shlokas I hve stated also show that Lord Krishna descended on earth as HIMSELF in dwarpar yug. You can read those too. I hve given detailed meaning and written lines same to same as they are written in the scriptures and not written any line on my own here. So there is no question of wrong interpretation.
anku- thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#95

Originally posted by: akhl

It is true that Gita establishes the supremacy of Lord Krishna. But where does it say that Krishna is not same as Vishnu? And like I said where is said in Gita that Lord Krishna is same as Vishnu?

B.G. shlok 11.15 is relevant here.

arjuna uvcha
pasymi devams tava deva dehe
sarvams tath bhut-vishesha-sanghan
brahmanam isam kamalasena-stham
rishims cha sarvan uragams cha divyan

Meaning:- Arjun said, "
I see, assembeled in your body, all the devatas and other living beings. I see lord Brahma seated on the lotus flower as well as many sages and divine serpents."

It is interesting to note that in this shlok, Arjun does not say that he sees Vishnu inside Krishna's body.

Doesnt devata include Lord Vishnu. I shall elaborate on this further later as I hve not got time today because of my flight tomorrow.
anku- thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#96

@Lalitha:-- This is all from internet...I never use the net as its never completely right or wrong. If I had to use the net, then I can out sooo many links which will state that Lord Krishna is supreme and cause of the generation of Lord Vishnu but I dont. Cause I dont believe in the net use while referring to scriptures

anku- thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#97
@Akhl:-- Pls write from some new place cause you hve written from Bhagvatam and I hve done from there too with more shloks. As for Vedas, I m going to do that on wednesday. I dont see you hve written from anywhere else. I am waiting for something new!
akhl thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#98

Originally posted by: ~angelz16~

Doesnt devata include Lord Vishnu. I shall elaborate on this further later as I hve not got time today because of my flight tomorrow.



One can as well argue that devata includes Lord Brahma too. But if that was the case, then what was the need to mention Lord Brahma in the shloka explicitly? It means that it is not necessary that devata includes Lord Brahma. Similarly it is not necessary that it includes Lord Vishnu.
anku- thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#99

Thats y I said, I will elaborate later as I hve a flight tomorrow and so I hve been busy with things related to that today. And after 8-9, I do not open scriptures.

RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: ~angelz16~

HUH HUH HUH? LOOOL! I interpreted wrong?

Those verses clearly say that Lord Krishna is the cause of generation of Lord Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesha and I interpreted wrong? LOL!! Then that means that Lord Krishna is the not the same Lord Krishna who is an incarnation of Lord Vishnu. Dear, whether you believe it or not, Krishna is the 8th or 9th avatar of Vishnu's Dasa Avataras. And it says in Devi Bhagavatham that Jagadamba: the mother of the world, is the mother of Lord Vishnu, Lord Shiva, and Lord Brahma. Lakshmi, Parvathi, and Saraswati are incarnations of Jagadamba, born to marry the Trimurti. There is none greater than Jagadamba. The Trimurti (Vishnu, Shiva, and Brahma) each have their own avatars, and Shri Krishna is the avatar of Lord Vishnu. In fact, according to Devi Bhagavatham, Shri Krishna is a small part of Jagadamba. We respect your opinion, but you should know, along with everyone else, that there are many many many versions of Hindu scriptures and puranas. You believe in the puranas you've listed, and that is great, but don't force everyone else to follow the scripture you follow, or that your scripture is the only correct one, because eveyone followes different scriptures, and they believe in the scripture they follow in. In Shiva Purana, it says Shiva is the center of the universe while in Vishnu Purana, it says Vishnu is the center of the universe. What if someone who believed in Shiva Purana and another who believed in Vishnu Purana argued with each other to prove which purana is more correct; and whether Shiva or Vishnu is greater? That would not make sense, and it is also foolish, because you can't "proove" which purana is the most correct.
Just because everyone has heard till now that Lord Krishna is an incarnation of Lord Vishnu doesnt mean that the other way round is not right. I think Lalitha you should read once more all the shloks. Maybe you are interpreting wrong. Thanks! For the people who believe Krishna is an incarnation of Vishnu will not believe the other way is correct, and vice versa, because that would contradict their belief. If you believe Vishnu is an incarnation of Krishna, that's great dear, but don't try to force others to follow your belief. I believe that Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma are the divine trinity, and that Shri Rama and Shri Krishna are incarnations of Vishnu, not the other way around. And I have scriptures to back up my opinion, just like you have scriptures to back up your opinion, so don't try to force others to follow your belief. If they want to, that's great, but you won't achieve anything by forcing people, insulting them, and getting into arguments.
And dear, you seem to have a bit of a temper problem. It'd be a good idea to reduce that, sweetheart, okay?😉 Getting irritated in debates is not a good idea.

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