Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan - Page 91

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Vibhishna thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
Continued - Uttar Rama Charita from 'Tales from the Hindu Dramatists' by R.N. Dutta (Google Books)

An incident now occurs which leads Rama to revisit the Dandaka forest, the scene of his former exile. The child of a Brahman dies suddenly and unaccountably. His body is laid at Rama's door. Evidently some national sin is the cause of such a calamity, and an aerial voice informs him that an awful crime is being perpetrated; for a Sudra, named Sambuka, is practising religious austerities, instead of confining himself to his proper vocation of waiting on the twice-born castes. Rama instantly starts for the forest, discovers Sambuka in the sacrilegious act and strikes off his head. But death by Rama's hand confers immortality on the Sudra, who appears as a celestial spirit, and thanks his benefactor for the glory and felicity thus obtained.

Before returning to Ayodhya, Rama is induced to visit the hermitage of the sage Agastya in Panchavati. Sita now reappears. She is herself invisible to Rama through the favour of the Bhagirathi but able to thrill with emotions by her touch. Rama is greatly distracted.

He faints with old remembrances but revives on the touch of Sita. He observes, "What does this mean? Heavenly balm seems poured into my heart; a well-known touch changes my insensibility to life. Is it Sita, or am I dreaming?"

He vainly seeks for her possession, but at last goes away on the advice of his companion Visanti.

The sage Valmiki makes great preparations for receiving Vasishtha, Janaka, Kaushalya, the mother of Rama and other eminent guests. The pupils are delighted because the visit of the guests affords hopes of a feast at which flesh meat is to constitute one of the dishes.

As the boys have got a holiday in honour of the guests, they are playing at some distance from a tree outside the hermitage. Among them, Kaushalya notices a boy with the features of her son, who is called in but whom the guests do not yet know to be a son of Rama.

Soon after, the horse of the horse-sacrifice of Rama comes near and he goes out with other boys to see the fun while the elders go to see the host.

The attendant soldiers cry out that Rama is the only hero of the world. Lava--for such is the boy's name,--cannot brook such vaunts and removes the banner. Soldiers crowd upon him and Lava draws his bow. Lakshmana's son Chandraketu--the general of the army--arrives surprised at the slaughter of his army and asks Lava to leave the incapable army and fight with himself. Lava obeys the call and after some conversation in which he ridicules the powers of Rama and infuriates his antagonist, they go out to fight.

The discharge and repulsion of the divine weapons occur.

The approach of Rama puts an end to the contest. Lava's elder brother Kusa has heard of his fight and comes to "eradicate from the world the name of emperor." But Lava has become calm and asks his brother to pay respects to the hero of the Ramayana.

Rama embraces both of them and is moved with their son-like touch. He notices in them the features of his wife He knows that his children alone could possess the divine weapons. He recollects that his wife was left in that part of the forest and instinctively comes to the conclusion that they are his children. He wishes to ask about their birth in a roundabout way, but before proceeding to the end, is asked to see his spiritual preceptor.

The desertion of Sita is acted by nymphs on the banks of the Ganges before Rama and other high guests invited by Valmiki.

Sita, from behind the stage, cries out "the beasts of prey desire [to devour] me in the forest (left) alone and unprotected. I will throw myself into the Bhagirathi." She enters supported by her mother Prithivi, the Earth and Ganga, each carrying a baby in the lap. Ganga tells her of the birth of the twins and consoles her, but Earth is greatly distressed with the conduct of Rama. Ganga replies "who can close the door of Fate?"

But Earth says, "has it been proper for the good Rama? He disregarded the hand he pressed when a boy. He disregarded me and Janaka. He disregarded Fire (who shewed her purity). He disregarded the children she was about to bring forth."

But Ganga pacifies her and they agree to make over the children to Valmiki, when they become a little old. Earth then asks her daughter to come to the nether world, to which she agrees and with their exit closes the play.

At the close of the play, Rama faints. Then the real Sita enters with Arundhuti, the wife of Rama's preceptor and touches and revives her husband. The people are satisfied with her purity and Rama takes her back with the children who are introduced by Valmiki. The husband and wife are thus re-united after twelve years of grievous solitude, and happiness is restored to the whole family. The re-union is witnessed not only by the people of Ayodhya, but by the congregated deities of earth and heaven.

Rama thus describes his love for his wife:-- "Her presence is ambrosia to my sight; her contact, fragrant sandal; her fond arms, twined round my neck; are a far richer clasp than costliest gems, and in my house she reigns the guardian goddess of my fame and fortune. Oh! I could never bear again to lose her."

😊 😊 😊 The End 😊 😊 😊


I hope you all liked the story. A different version with a happy ending . . .

😊😊
Edited by Vibhishna - 16 years ago
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
Thanks for the story Vibhishna.😛 It's interesting, but your right, too fantastical to be real.
ananyacool thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
Great job Vibhishna!! 👏 Whenever I read Bhavabhuti ,I am reminded of typical bollywood movies which most of the time have 'happily ever after' themes. Nevertheless its a beautiful drama and a great masterpiece. Big thanks to you for posting it here⭐️⭐️⭐️
Bhavabhuti's U R-C is quite critical of Ramji , isn't it?? He is not very comfortable with the abandonment of Ma Sita and the Shambuka episode.
There is one scene : Its evening and a disciple of Valmiki comes to the royal palace at Ayodhya,he meets Lakshman to convey that Sita had given birth to twin sons the previous night ; Lakshman is very elated and reports it to Ram that he(Lakshman) had been blessed with two beautiful nephews, Ram is so happy but at the same time is sad too because Sita doesn't send this news directly to him. Maybe this was Bhavabhuti's way of expressing his protest against Ramji for abandoning Sita.
Vibhishna thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: ananyacool

Great job Vibhishna!! 👏 Whenever I read Bhavabhuti ,I am reminded of typical bollywood movies which most of the time have 'happily ever after' themes. Nevertheless its a beautiful drama and a great masterpiece. Big thanks to you for posting it here⭐️⭐️⭐️

Bhavabhuti's U R-C is quite critical of Ramji , isn't it?? He is not very comfortable with the abandonment of Ma Sita and the Shambuka episode.
There is one scene : Its evening and a disciple of Valmiki comes to the royal palace at Ayodhya,he meets Lakshman to convey that Sita had given birth to twin sons the previous night ; Lakshman is very elated and reports it to Ram that he(Lakshman) had been blessed with two beautiful nephews, Ram is so happy but at the same time is sad too because Sita doesn't send this news directly to him. Maybe this was Bhavabhuti's way of expressing his protest against Ramji for abandoning Sita.



I read that the reason for changing the ending this way was because Sanskrit Dramas do not allow a sad ending. I am not sure but I read this somewhere.

I had read about the disciple informing Lakshman about the birth of the twins. But I never read the scene in detail.

Many other scenes - the rivers (I think Tamasa) criticizes Ram even Bhuma Devi chides Sita for going back to Ram when he had abandoned her.

Can you suggest any other site for reading this book? Or is it available in bookstores? I would like to read the entire translation.
Savi13 thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: _LalithaJanaki_

Thank you😳.
My mom told me that when a girl is unmarried, Lord Vishnu counts as her husband because every girl is a form of Lakshmi, but when she is married, the girl will have new responsibilities and duties and she should then serve her husband and his family.😳😳


good explanation Lalita di👏 i hope that will clear his doubts if he really want to kill his doubts..
i can make out only one thing from s_rocha post.....
he knows only to criticize some one...
and i think he will never learn to praise some one...
so instead of wasting our time we should rather avoid such post...

woow mandodari di
is that so in uttara kand
i wish i wish sagars have shown this...
by the way...
garden is always been so special for them i wish sagars have shown this...
so that we can escape from this tragic sequence may be for one episode...


Edited by sam1903 - 16 years ago
Savi13 thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Mandodari



So to get Vishnuji in my next birth I have to pray to Gowri ma like Sitaji.
Jagadambe Jag Kalyani
Vaardani Math Bhavani
Chandra has already asked me to aspire to be Jambavati. So, once my duties to my family in this birth is done my tapas to Vishnuji would start via recommendations from Maa Gowri. God, I am aiming too high!!! 😆😆😆
😆
😆


woow di waht a great thought....
no u r not aiming high......
If miraji can get Krishna ji so can u....
well i think she can be inspiration for u

Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: _LalithaJanaki_

Thank you😳.
My mom told me that when a girl is unmarried, Lord Vishnu counts as her husband because every girl is a form of Lakshmi, but when she is married, the girl will have new responsibilities and dutiesand she should then serve her husband and his family.😳😳

Uh, ain't that what got Mirabai into trouble with her actual husband - her mother teaching her, when she was a kid, that Lord Vishnu was her husband?😕😕😕

I don't have a daughter, but if I did, I'd not want to think of anyone - not even Lord Vishnu - as her husband unless and until she actually got married.

Edited by Chandraketu - 16 years ago
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

Sorry, friends, for such a delay. As I had said before, I am posting the story of Uttara Rama Charita by Bhavabuti. Most of you might have searched for the story and read it already. But I'm posting it here anyway.

The reason I think of this story as a fairytale is not because I consider it false but because its too fantastical. It reminds me of all the fairy tales like Cinderella or Snow White - it is a beautiful story of lovers reunited after a long separation and how they miss and long for each other when apart.

Vibs

Thanks for posting the Bhavabhuti account - read it a while back on Google books, but didn't get to search for it recently. Normally, I believe in the original Valmiki first and foremost, the way it's actually written, but Bhavabhuti comes second for me. This isn't exactly Cinderella or Snow White - Valmiki too has Sita re-appearing before Rama, only that he makes her take a public oath re: her chastity. This one just skips that part. Only question here would be - do the Avadis now accept Sita as chaste again, and if so, on what basis? Luv's valor? Also, did Kush & Luv sing the Ramayan in this account, and was that what tilted opinion in their favor? Also, if Luv was 12 at the time, wouldn't that be Chandraketu's age as well, in which case, how/why was he given command of the army? Was it b'cos it was known that it was just a formality, and the horse would not be captured by any ruler?

I believe the accounts of Rama asking Lakshman to leave her near the ashram. I do not believe in the accounts where he asks him to leave her in the forest, in the middle of nowhere. If you think Bhavabhuti is unbelievable, the cartoons - there was one I think in 2006 called Luv-Kush - were even worse: there, Rama invites Sita to honorably return to Ayodhya and take back her place on the throne, and she invokes Bhoomi devi instead, stating that she's 'tired and doesn't want to face any more disappointments in life'. After everything we've read and discussed about Sita, does that sound anything like her? The reason she summoned Bhoomi devi was only because she wasn't being given an honorable way out of her predicament in Valmiki. Had she received an unconditional apology from the Avadhis and an honorable reception, from everything we've read, is there any reason to doubt that she'd have happily chosen to live with her family - husband, kids, sisters, devars, bhatijas, et al?

Vibhishna thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Vibs

Thanks for posting the Bhavabhuti account - read it a while back on Google books, but didn't get to search for it recently. Normally, I believe in the original Valmiki first and foremost, the way it's actually written, but Bhavabhuti comes second for me. This isn't exactly Cinderella or Snow White - Valmiki too has Sita re-appearing before Rama, only that he makes her take a public oath re: her chastity. This one just skips that part. Only question here would be - do the Avadis now accept Sita as chaste again, and if so, on what basis? Luv's valor? Also, did Kush & Luv sing the Ramayan in this account, and was that what tilted opinion in their favor? Also, if Luv was 12 at the time, wouldn't that be Chandraketu's age as well, in which case, how/why was he given command of the army? Was it b'cos it was known that it was just a formality, and the horse would not be captured by any ruler?

I believe the accounts of Rama asking Lakshman to leave her near the ashram. I do not believe in the accounts where he asks him to leave her in the forest, in the middle of nowhere. If you think Bhavabhuti is unbelievable, the cartoons - there was one I think in 2006 called Luv-Kush - were even worse: there, Rama invites Sita to honorably return to Ayodhya and take back her place on the throne, and she invokes Bhoomi devi instead, stating that she's 'tired and doesn't want to face any more disappointments in life'. After everything we've read and discussed about Sita, does that sound anything like her? The reason she summoned Bhoomi devi was only because she wasn't being given an honorable way out of her predicament in Valmiki. Had she received an unconditional apology from the Avadhis and an honorable reception, from everything we've read, is there any reason to doubt that she'd have happily chosen to live with her family - husband, kids, sisters, devars, bhatijas, et al?



The reason I took it for a fairy tale was because of all the ethereal and unearthly beings who have a major part in the story.

I think the basis here is the fact that Sita was able to revive her husband with her touch. I am confused myself but its after the people see that Sita revives Ram when he faints at the end of the play the are convinced of her chastity. I haven't read the entire translation but only bits of it and the brief account I had posted before.

I don't think Luv and Kush sing the Ramayan in front of the gathering - not sure about this. They may have taken part in the play. All I know is when Luv asks Sage Valmiki or someone else, he is given the reply that Sage Valmiki wants it to be enacted by the nymphs.

Chandraketu (Lakshman's son) taking command of the army - this was an issue I had pondered as well. He must have been the one who was with Ram at that time seeing that Bharat and Shathrugan had their own kingdoms and families and Lakshman was the one who stayed with Ram. He was attended by other warriors as well. Sumantra was there with him. The reason Luv ends up fighting the army was this. The soldiers proclaimed Lord Ram's supemacy over everyone including Sage Parashuram, a Bhraman. Luv did not agree with this and removed the king's banner saying that a Brahman was the highest in the society and the king is arrogant to have something like this proclaimed. The soldiers fight Luv but are no match for the boy and when Chandraketu sees the army fall back he challenges Luv for a duel which the latter readily agrees to. When Sumantra sees the divine weapons that are discharged he thinks that this boy is not an ordinary one and these weapons (the ones Luv used) had always answered to Ram and no one else. After quite a long fight, the two of them realise each other's skill and valour (but Luv is portrayed to be the better one) and make peace. Luv sees Ram coming towards them and asks Chandraketu who he is and Chandraketu replies that he was his reverred father. Luv asks that he (Chandraketu) refers to 4 people as his father and who among them is the one who comes to them. To this Chandraketu answers "Know him to be the eldest of the four." (Luv and Ram embrace - I don't know what dialogues are exchanged here. Sorry for the incomplete stuff I'm posting here )

I haven't seen the cartoon and it certainly doesn't sound like the strong character of Mata Sita we have been discussing.

I too believe if that she was offered an honourable way to live with her family (like in Bhavabhuti's version) she would have lived happily with her husband and family.

I too believe in the original Valmiki Ramayan first and foremost - its the only version that gives me minimum doubts. The second one I follow is Kamba Ramayan. Its the same as Valmiki Ramayan but written with changes for Tamilian Culture. I do admit that there are many changes from the original in the Kamba Ramayan as well.


Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Vibhishna



The reason I took it for a fairy tale was because of all the ethereal and unearthly beings who have a major part in the story.

I think the basis here is the fact that Sita was able to revive her husband with her touch. I am confused myself but its after the people see that Sita revives Ram when he faints at the end of the play the are convinced of her chastity. I haven't read the entire translation but only bits of it and the brief account I had posted before.


That doesn't sound so outlandish - if Rama can revive Ahalya, why can't Sita revive Rama?

Originally posted by: Vibhishna


Chandraketu (Lakshman's son) taking command of the army - this was an issue I had pondered as well. He must have been the one who was with Ram at that time seeing that Bharat and Shathrugan had their own kingdoms and families and Lakshman was the one who stayed with Ram. He was

Bharat had his own kingdom here? Which was it - Gandhara, Kekaya or some other? And how was that, if he was yuvraj? Or if he did have his own kingdom, then who was the Yuvraj of Ayodhya? Lakshman?

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

attended by other warriors as well. Sumantra was there with him. The reason Luv ends up fighting the army was this. The soldiers proclaimed Lord Ram's supemacy over everyone including Sage Parashuram, a Bhraman. Luv did not agree with this and removed the king's banner saying that a Brahman was the highest in the society and the king is arrogant to have something like

Okay, I agree that this is unreal!

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

this proclaimed. The soldiers fight Luv but are no match for the boy and when Chandraketu sees the army fall back he challenges Luv for a duel which the latter readily agrees to. When Sumantra sees the divine weapons that are discharged he thinks that this boy is not an ordinary one and these weapons (the ones Luv used) had always answered to Ram and no one else. After quite a long fight, the two of them realise each other's skill and valour (but Luv is portrayed to be the better one) and make peace. Luv sees Ram coming towards them and asks Chandraketu who he is and Chandraketu replies that he was his reverred father. Luv asks that he (Chandraketu) refers to 4 people as his father and who among them is the one who comes to them. To this Chandraketu answers "Know him to be the eldest of the four." (Luv and Ram embrace - I don't know what dialogues are exchanged here. Sorry for the incomplete stuff I'm posting here )


Thanks for whatever you did post - this part looks okay to me.

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

I haven't seen the cartoon and it certainly doesn't sound like the strong character of Mata Sita we have been discussing.

I too believe if that she was offered an honourable way to live with her family (like in Bhavabhuti's version) she would have lived happily with her husband and family.

I too believe in the original Valmiki Ramayan first and foremost - its the only version that gives me minimum doubts. The second one I follow is Kamba Ramayan. Its the same as Valmiki Ramayan but written with changes for Tamilian Culture. I do admit that there are many changes from the original in the Kamba Ramayan as well.

I haven't read Kamban. Some time, I hope to read Krittivas, if I can get a hold of it.

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