Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan - Page 92

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S_rocha thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: _LalithaJanaki_

S_rocha, I suggest you read the real Valmiki Ramayan before making these kinds of posts again. If you read the real Valmiki Ramayan, your "so called doubt" would be erased.


Excuse me madam. how you jump to this conclusion that i haven't read Valmiki Ramayan. I have read Valmiki Ramayan and Know every part of it and my so called doubt are genuine okay.

Originally posted by: _LalithaJanaki_


In the very same Valmiki Ramayan you claim to read, Shri Ram tells Sita after her Agni Pariksha that he never doubted her, and his love for her is even greater than her love for him. Sita was a daughter-in-law of the Raghukul, the wife of Rama, the daughter in law of King Dasharath and the daughter of King Janaka. There is no doubt of her chastity and virtue.


I never doubted sita for her chastity did I😲, stop blaming me further. I only criticize Ram for being so cruel to sita. If his rejection of sita is according to Raj Dharma as his subjects were against her then she besides being his wife was her subject too and to satsfy the wrong jugement of other subject if injustice is done then its dharma??? No obiously not. If Ram has tested her and satisfied by her agnipariksha and if its already been proven she is pure then why he banished her after listining to gossips of few illiterate ind ignorent people. There is other options too which he never took but did injustice to her only. I will write more rite now too busy in other shedule.




Edited by S_rocha - 16 years ago
chen2chic thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
Firstly thanks Vibs for posting Bhavabhuti's URC. I got to read it thro' your post.
Going thro urs & Chandra's points, I have a bi.......g doubt🤔 Was it not Shatrughan & Pushkal (Bharat's son) who accompany the horse? Sorry I have not read the original Valmiki version of the uttarkhand and may be wrong too....
And I think Bharat establishes the kingdoms for his sons after the AY. And so does Lakshman for his sons. I think throughout except Shatrughan, the other three brothers are together. And Ram sent for Shatrughan from Mathura when he decided to merge in the Sarayu, meaning B&L were with him. Correct me if I am wrong.
And Vibs - does the KR have Uttar kand as well or is it only till the Pattabhishekam?
And truly the cartoon Sita does not merge with the character of real Sita. But then, even if the praja had sought an apology from Sita without her going thro any ordeal, I doubt if she would have accepted to be their queen. The main reason for the praja was that they did not accept the result when the test was not conducted in front of their eyes. If she had gone thro another agnipariksha in front of avadh praja, maybe they would accept her. But again, if Ayodhya accepts, there maybe rumours elsewhere. How many times would she have to prove herself? People did not realise that a proof is a proof, be it once or many times. But Sita had realised this, and the moment she was asked to prove the second time, she PROVED it...period!
chen2chic thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: S_rocha

I never doubted sita for her chastity did I😲, stop blaming me further. I only criticize Ram for being so cruel to sita. If his rejection of sita is according to Raj Dharma as his subjects were against her then she besides being his wife was her subject too and to satsfy the wrong jugement of other subject if injustice is done then its dharma??? No obiously not. If Ram has tested her and satisfied by her agnipariksha and if its already been proven she is pure then why he banished her after listining to gossips of few illiterate ind ignorent people. There is other options too which he never took but did injustice to her only. I will write more rite now too busy in other shedule.

Ok rocha............I did not want to pay heed to your posts, but then was amused that you did not understand Ram&Sita's respective roles.
Firstly, please realise that as husband & wife, they never separated. They were very much with each other in every walk of their lives. As a husband, it was Ram's duty to rescue Sita which he did and accepted her as a husband. But now that he is a king, King takes priority over all other roles. As a king, he was not expected to have such a queen who is talked of in this way.
He is the example and role model of every citizen of the state. "Yathaa raajaa thathaa prajaa" (As a king, so the subjects...)
And also, he knew that people spoke ill of Sita alone and not him, which pained him even more. And hence he took the decision. Sita too, acted as a queen was expected to do, realising that she would be taken as an example in every household. Now, when you say Sita was also his subject...true..but Sita did not counter argue bcoz she realised the dilemma between a husband & a king. Though she could have encountered the king, she realised the state in which her husband was and as an understanding wife, she accepted the judgement.
Had Ram really rejected Sita, as per your words, he would have not not installed her golden statue for the yagna, rather would have had another living wife sitting beside him for the yagna.....
Hope you understand it atleast now................
Khalrika thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Firstly thanks Vibs for posting Bhavabhuti's URC. I got to read it thro' your post.

Going thro urs & Chandra's points, I have a bi.......g doubt🤔 Was it not Shatrughan & Pushkal (Bharat's son) who accompany the horse? Sorry I have not read the original Valmiki version of the uttarkhand and may be wrong too....
And I think Bharat establishes the kingdoms for his sons after the AY. And so does Lakshman for his sons. I think throughout except Shatrughan, the other three brothers are together. And Ram sent for Shatrughan from Mathura when he decided to merge in the Sarayu, meaning B&L were with him. Correct me if I am wrong.
And Vibs - does the KR have Uttar kand as well or is it only till the Pattabhishekam?
And truly the cartoon Sita does not merge with the character of real Sita. But then, even if the praja had sought an apology from Sita without her going thro any ordeal, I doubt if she would have accepted to be their queen. The main reason for the praja was that they did not accept the result when the test was not conducted in front of their eyes. If she had gone thro another agnipariksha in front of avadh praja, maybe they would accept her. But again, if Ayodhya accepts, there maybe rumours elsewhere. How many times would she have to prove herself? People did not realise that a proof is a proof, be it once or many times. But Sita had realised this, and the moment she was asked to prove the second time, she PROVED it...period!



Deepa, there is no following the horse in Valmiki. Read my posts in Uttarkhand stories. I've posted the synopsis after reading the relevant chapters of Valmiki's Uttarkhand. I ignored the stories of Yayati and such because it is not relevant to the main story line. The whole aswamedha story as shown by most movies and serials never happened in Valmiki. Can someone please tell me in which version of the Ramayan do we have the brothers following the horse and meeting Lav and Kush?
Khalrika thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Ok rocha............I did not want to pay heed to your posts, but then was amused that you did not understand Ram&Sita's respective roles.
Firstly, please realise that as husband & wife, they never separated. They were very much with each other in every walk of their lives. As a husband, it was Ram's duty to rescue Sita which he did and accepted her as a husband. But now that he is a king, King takes priority over all other roles. As a king, he was not expected to have such a queen who is talked of in this way.
He is the example and role model of every citizen of the state. "Yathaa raajaa thathaa prajaa" (As a king, so the subjects...)
And also, he knew that people spoke ill of Sita alone and not him, which pained him even more. And hence he took the decision. Sita too, acted as a queen was expected to do, realising that she would be taken as an example in every household. Now, when you say Sita was also his subject...true..but Sita did not counter argue bcoz she realised the dilemma between a husband & a king. Though she could have encountered the king, she realised the state in which her husband was and as an understanding wife, she accepted the judgement.
Had Ram really rejected Sita, as per your words, he would have not not installed her golden statue for the yagna, rather would have had another living wife sitting beside him for the yagna.....
Hope you understand it atleast now................



It is not gonna happen Deepa. 😕 Ignore the posts. 👍🏼
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Ok rocha............I did not want to pay heed to your posts, but then was amused that you did not understand Ram&Sita's respective roles.
Firstly, please realise that as husband & wife, they never separated. They were very much with each other in every walk of their lives. As a husband, it was Ram's duty to rescue Sita which he did and accepted her as a husband. But now that he is a king, King takes priority over all other roles. As a king, he was not expected to have such a queen who is talked of in this way.
He is the example and role model of every citizen of the state. "Yathaa raajaa thathaa prajaa" (As a king, so the subjects...)
And also, he knew that people spoke ill of Sita alone and not him, which pained him even more. And hence he took the decision. Sita too, acted as a queen was expected to do, realising that she would be taken as an example in every household. Now, when you say Sita was also his subject...true..but Sita did not counter argue bcoz she realised the dilemma between a husband & a king. Though she could have encountered the king, she realised the state in which her husband was and as an understanding wife, she accepted the judgement.
Had Ram really rejected Sita, as per your words, he would have not not installed her golden statue for the yagna, rather would have had another living wife sitting beside him for the yagna.....
Hope you understand it atleast now................


Great reply chen2chic!👏
Yes S Rocha, why did Ram install a golden statue of Sita if he did not care for her and doubted her? Why did he live like a sanyasin even in a palace, sleeping on the floor, eating simple food, enjoying no royal luxuries? If he did not care for Sita, why did he not remarry?
You refuse to look at the truth, but I hope you will realize that the truth is behind every act of Ramji. And you should also remember that Shri Ram is an avatar of Lord Vishnu, so before you criticize him in the harsh manner in which you are doing, remember that you are criticizing God. Are you so well learned that you consider yourself right to condemn God?😲 It is not wrong to doubt some actions of Gods, and to discuss them in an open manner, but you are not simply doubting, you are condemning Shri Ram, which is not acceptable. You are calling him harsh and unloving. How can you do that? How can your conscience be at peace after you do that?
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: S_rocha


Excuse me madam. how you jump to this conclusion that i haven't read Valmiki Ramayan. I have read Valmiki Ramayan and Know every part of it and my so called doubt are genuine okay.

I never doubted sita for her chastity did I😲, stop blaming me further. I only criticize Ram for being so cruel to sita. If his rejection of sita is according to Raj Dharma as his subjects were against her then she besides being his wife was her subject too and to satsfy the wrong jugement of other subject if injustice is done then its dharma??? No obiously not. If Ram has tested her and satisfied by her agnipariksha and if its already been proven she is pure then why he banished her after listining to gossips of few illiterate ind ignorent people. There is other options too which he never took but did injustice to her only. I will write more rite now too busy in other shedule.




First of all, I was not referring to you when I said there was no doubt of Sita's chastity. I was saying it generally, because I wanted to point out that Ramji knew there was no doubt of her chastity, and yet, he made her go through the Agni Pareeksha to show the world how great his wife was. It is written in Ramayana that Sita was the only woman who Ravan kidnapped who did not accept him. There were struggles with other women he abducted yes, but they eventually gave in when they saw that their struggled were useless, or were taken in by the grandeur of Ravan's wealth and his promise to make them his queens. All of them gave in to temptation, except Sita. She did not even have temptation, that's how chaste she was. She was disgusted with Ravan's acts, and his wealth and palace did not for one moment appeal to her. She professed that no matter if her husband was a homeless hermit or a royal king, she would always be his wife. Separating Ram and Sita is as impossible as counting the stars in the sky, or the particles of sand. Mere physical happenings do not separate them, because they are always together in their hearts.
Who would not be proud of a wife like Sita? The Agni Pareeksha conveyed to the whole world the extent of Sita Mata's greatness. It was not an act of cruelty on the part of Ramji.
So don't you dare ever say Ramji was cruel!😡 He is Maryada Purushotham, and great sages even do not condemn him. Why do you, a mere mortal on Earth?😲😡 So control your mouth.
Vibhishna thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: S_rocha


Excuse me madam. how you jump to this conclusion that i haven't read Valmiki Ramayan. I have read Valmiki Ramayan and Know every part of it and my so called doubt are genuine okay.

I never doubted sita for her chastity did I😲, stop blaming me further. I only criticize Ram for being so cruel to sita. If his rejection of sita is according to Raj Dharma as his subjects were against her then she besides being his wife was her subject too and to satsfy the wrong jugement of other subject if injustice is done then its dharma??? No obiously not. If Ram has tested her and satisfied by her agnipariksha and if its already been proven she is pure then why he banished her after listining to gossips of few illiterate ind ignorent people. There is other options too which he never took but did injustice to her only. I will write more rite now too busy in other shedule.






S_rocha, I don't mind explaining my points and view to people who are genuinely puzzled and would like an explanation and would be receptive enough to listen to all the points and not stay adamant and try to convince others as to what they say is true. - This is my policy and I'm not blaming anyone (including you) by saying this. I don't blame anyone neither support nor go against anyone unless I have a very good reason.

Chen2chic had explained so well already. I am adding some points to that post.

Ram was a king and he had to saitisfy his subjects as it was his duty as a good king. He might have very well continued to do what he wanted ignoring what his subjects said but Ram was not that kind of person.
Ram was considered to be an ideal man by all of the people and not without reason.

First of all, a man (that too a king who was born into the mighty house of the Sun) had a reputation to live up to. His fame and honour being tarnished he'll not only put himself down but also the name of his house that has won praises throughout the ages. A slightest blemish will be blown up to a big issue. Not only that, Ram wished that his fame and the Suryavanshi's must be carried over through the future ages and any honourable man would have wished for the same. Hence, he could not allow even a small blemish on his honour. For that, his people must not find a single fault in him and his rule. Its is definitely not easy.

Secondly, Ram did not test Sita. It was Sita who decided to enter the fire. Ram, when Sita was brought in front of him told her that he had done his duty and that she was free to go anywhere she wanted. Sita on hearing these words chose to enter fire and asked Lakshman to build a pyre and entered it with an oath of chastity saying that if she was entirely pure, Agni Dev should protect her. She came out unscathed and was accepted by Ram. The reason Ram had spoken thus was not because he doubted Sita but as the norms of the society those days were completely against a woman leaving the house especially spending even one night alone in another man's home. Thus he had to uphold his duty or else people would have said that he loved the woman (Sita) so much to accept her again blindly. Ram never doubted Sita. This step also proved to the world that she was the most chaste in all the world.

Thridly, the reason Ram chose to banish Sita was this. Ram could not answer the rumours - the people had spoken so badly and he had no answer. The people were against Kaikeyi but she had asked for the two boons that was promised to her. I am saying that what she did was correct. She had changed and realised her mistake and had paid dearly for what she did. A king can forgive a person who had realised her mistake and give them a second chance. When this was so with any ordinary person, he cannot be so harsh to his mother. The people have to accept the king and the queen. Sita was Ram's wife and his responsibility. She was Ram's wife whether he banished her or not. But she could never be the queen when the people did not accept her. Ram fulfilling his duty as a husband did not abandon her just anywhere in the forest but near a gret sage's ashram so that she will be cared for and also fulfilling the norms of banishing her to the forest.

The reason I said that Ram could not answer the rumours is this -

The washerman had asked his wife "Do you think I am Ram to accept back a wife who had spent her nights away from home in another man's house?"

When the this issue spread, the rumours (from the men) were - "Now we have to tollereate our wives leaving the homes at night and speaking back that Ram himself accepted Sita back after she stayed at another's home for so long and why shouldn't you?" A king had to be the example to his subjects. When people had asked is it alright for the women folk to spend nights away from home what will Ram answer?
When the people of his country and others say that this is a country ruled by a good king whose queen had spent her days in another man's home what will Lord Ram say? When the people from other countries say that the kingdom might have women who follow their queen, how can Ram answer them and his people.

Of course he can say that she was taken back after a test of fire but they didn't believe that as well. To ask Sita to prover herself again and again would be an ultimate insult to her chastity. When the people did not believe the proof she had already given, they would definitely not believe any words from Ram either.

But posting the doubts of the people, I do not believe these rumours. I am just posting what I have thought about.

Again I say this, I don't mind helping anyone who wants to learn more but I'd consider it a wate of time if the person is not receptive enough. If there are things you don't agree you can give valid reasons as to why you disagree.
Vibhishna thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Mandodari



Deepa, there is no following the horse in Valmiki. Read my posts in Uttarkhand stories. I've posted the synopsis after reading the relevant chapters of Valmiki's Uttarkhand. I ignored the stories of Yayati and such because it is not relevant to the main story line. The whole aswamedha story as shown by most movies and serials never happened in Valmiki. Can someone please tell me in which version of the Ramayan do we have the brothers following the horse and meeting Lav and Kush?



Bharat and Lakshman established kingdoms after the Ashwamedha Yagna. Ram did not send for Shathrugan to come but sent a messages telling him what he and his brothers meant to do.

I am not sure which version has the fight between Ram and his sons. As Mandodari ji said, no horse and a following army is mentioned in the Valmiki Ramayan. The army and the person following the horse did not meet any resistance and the sacrifice was completed.

And Deepa, Kamban ended his Ramayan with Lord Ram's coronation saying that he did not want write what followed. It was another poet named Ottakoothar who wrote the Uttar Kand in Tamil. I have not been able to find that book till now 😭

Ottakoothar considered Kamban his rival. The Chola King expressed his wish that great poets like Kamban and Ottakoothar must write the Valmiki Ramayan in Tamil. Ottakoothar was not happy that the king compared Kamban (who was much younger) with him, a senior and respected poet. They both started writing individually. But when the King asked after some time how the work preogressed, Ottakoothar said that he had been able to completed only a small portion. But Kamban had finished till the crossing of Ganga. Ottakoothar did not believe it and asked Kamban to recite some poems from what he wrote. Kamban said that he would do so with the grace of Mother Saraswathi and recited a bit of what he was composing. The King was lost in its beauty and said that his work was excellent and each verse was a gem. Ottakoothar was upset and he said "Since Kamban had completed so muhc, let him finish it." Kamban agreed saying that Goddess Saraswathi will help him fiinish the work. And so he did finish the Ramayan till Lord Ram's coronation. Ottakoothar later wrote the Uttar Kand in Tamil. I am waiting to get my hands on that book. This book and Ravana Kaaviyam are quite elusive. I am not able to find them 😭
Vibhishna thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
After watching the recent episodes, I have some doubts.

What really happened to the woman? If Ram had met her what justice would he have given her?

My views are this: For a happier thought I'd think that the woman (Usha) had met some sage who gave her shelter and instructs her to spend the rest of her days meditating on the Lord. If not she must have killed herself (this is something I don't want to happen).

If Ram had met her what justice would he have given her? - Of this I am not sure. Since he himself had banished Sita he could not have ordered Sanjeevan to take back his wife. I think Ram would have told Sanjeevan to confirm his wife's guilt before accusing her. But I don't think Sanjeevan would have acepted it whole heartedly. His major problem was that his wife had stayed in another man's house. But telling him to confirm his wife was guilty of the accusations before punishing her thus sounds reasonable to me.

What do you think about this friends?

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