Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan - Page 108

Originally posted by: chen2chic

I happened to watch yday's episode just this morning, and this is exactly how I feel too. They say that Ram does not share his sorrow with anyone and locks it up within himself, but as Lalitha says, It is coming in the way of him acting as the ideal king.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Given Vishnu's sense of humor, he probably promised them that they'd be his Shamshaptakas in the Dwapar yuga - the army of fanatical fighters that Krishna had. And when it actually came to using them, Krishna gave them to Duryodhan, and they found themselves on the opposite side of him and Arjun. Am sure they appreciated the fact that all their Narayan bhakt resulted in them serving evil.😈

P.S. Glad Flock worked out for you & Ananya. Do you use their other included links, like Tinypic?

Well, we're still watching the current serial, so we're stuck with that while it lasts. But you're right - once it's over, we should move on.

Actually, while warriors do get to heaven, imagine if this bunch had been reborn as the Shamshaptakas, made to believe by Krishna that they were his, and ended up fighting a war opposite him. In other words, they'd have to spend every bit of their power fighting everything they held sacred. That would be a dilemma similar to what they put Rama thru.

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Mandodari, Chandra, Lalitha & Vibs - thanks for all those points on the legal standards prevalent in the Treta Yug.

I too agree with Lalitha that the situation was "Guilty until proven innocent" and the narrow mindedness of the village people. Their discussions were based on the ends and not the means.

Vibs - Good analysis of why Ram took his own decision. Also, no one would ever blame him for doing this, bcoz by taking his own decision, he did not get an aota of benefit from it except that it increased his popularity, respect and ideals.

Purvi - Awesome! Couldn't get a better word at this time.👏

And as for the Vaikunt journey of the Avadhis, I would agree little bit atleast if they had repented wholeheartedly for their sin of baseless accusation of Ma Sita, but not if they had not. 😡

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Well, we're still watching the current serial, so we're stuck with that while it lasts. But you're right - once it's over, we should move on.

Actually, while warriors do get to heaven, imagine if this bunch had been reborn as the Shamshaptakas, made to believe by Krishna that they were his, and ended up fighting a war opposite him. In other words, they'd have to spend every bit of their power fighting everything they held sacred. That would be a dilemma similar to what they put Rama thru.

Originally posted by: _LalithaJanaki_

By the way, the explanations given by Vibhishna and Purvi are excellent.👏 Vibhishna made a really convincing argument that Ram did not have any other option than to exile Mata Sita and Purvi made a really good point about why Ram's decision to forgive the Ayodhyavasis is justified. Thanks for your input guys, it really helped.⭐️

Originally posted by: coolpurvi

As perVamiki Ramwas well versed in science of good administration. After he rule for sometime he wanted to know people opinion so he employed spies n the then he came to know abt people view abt Sita


Regarding whether the avadhis shud have gone with Ram or not my view that Lord Ram had done right by forgiving them . In those days ther were no newspapers tv radio or IT nor copies of
valmiki Ramayn were available for all in the bookstalls of Ayodhya. People didnt knew how things actually happened nor they knew abt Ravan that he was not that cheap person. He has his own ideals which he followed. Tehy had no idea of lanka palace ashok vatika etc etc. they knew the half news. Its a old saying "Ignorace is cause of the evil' n same happende with avadhis. If we were at Ram's place we wud not have forgiven them reason we r mere mortal beings not
God. But He is God. He created everything our action its fruits all belongs to Him so He can forgive avadhis

Originally posted by: loveanime

You are correct. But it is just not that he is sad, he is not able to make up his mind and he keeps going back and forth which is showing deep confusion on his part. I don't perceive Ram is supposed to be confused for such a long period of time and unable to take a decision. That is all I feel. But it is still entertaining to watch, though I do feel all these tears do make it very sad.

I have seen the original Valmiki version in Tamil. Where Ram sends Sita away that was probably the coldest Ram I ever saw. LOL. They showed it took him less than five minutes to make up his mind about Sita. I was very young I must confess it left a bad taste though I loved the character of Ram, I felt really bad for poor Sita when she tried to commit suicide and was stopped. So for a long time I didnt like the original version because of the way they showed Ram in Tamil more unfeeling and all about being King, but I think now everyone has a point the original is better in its own way because that is the real ramayan.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

In Valmiki, Bharat has no clue about the situation Rama is in, until after the war. Hanuman meeting him is only there in RamCharitManas, not in Valmiki. So there is no meeting between them, and Bharat doesn't know all this until the return.

There is nothing mentioned in till Ram's return but I read in a book (I think Ramesh Menon's) that Ram thanked the King of Kasi for attending his coronation and tells him that though he wants him to stay longer, he cannot deprive his subjects (the King of Kasi's) of their King. He also says that he knows that he tried, along with Bharat to send an army to aid him in his battle with Ravan and he is so much grateful for that.

This is what prompted me to think that Bharat knew about Sita Devi's kidnapping and Ram's plight and tried to do something about it. The only possible way to know this was the result of the quest of vanaras or that his Guru Vasishta must have informed him. The latter I think is quite not possible - not because Guru Vashishta was not capable of it but because a sage will not disclose anything unless he has a reason to do so. I think Maharishi Vashishta, even if he knew what was going on, would have kept silent for he must have know what will happen in the future as well.

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

Did the common people know of the quest of the vanaras. If so the news would have pread along with the insertions and additions by those who pass it on. They would have had enough time to discuss it all and then if they still doubted Sita's chastity, they wouldn't have been so joyous in her welcome. I think that the Washerman threw out his thoughts he had kept within himself or that he himself had thought about it at the time of sending away his wife and that started the people thinking along those lines.

What are your opinions on this, friends?

I have already exhausted my time here. It took some time to read through all the posts.

Would be back tonight 😉

Note that after Rama was crowned, the vanaras and Vibhishan spent a few months with him during which he heard the story of Ravan, Vali and others from a number of major rishis who visited him. That would probably have been the time that everyone in Ayodhya got familiar with what actually happened during their exile.

If the Ayodhya people got to know all this during this timeframe, that would answer Lalitha's doubt - they wouldn't have gotten to know about Sita's exile before Rama & Sita were crowned. It may even be that they didn't care about all this until this dhobi incident happened, when they started wondering what if their womenfolk use Sita as the precedent for staying away from home. But even that was inexcusable - had any woman actually done that, the counter argument should have been that Sita was forcibly separated from Rama, whereas the question of whether normal women had similar compelling circumstances would have to be determined on a case by case basis.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Purvi

There is nothing in Valmiki that suggests that Rama led the life of a Sanyasi, slept on the floor, etc. If so, which verse is it? If not, where did you get it? Please don't say Ramanand Sagar, or cite any movie or serial. After Lakshman returned to Ayodhya, he told Rama (7:52), "According to your orders, I have left Jaanakee on the bank of Gangaa, near Vaalmeeki Muni's beautiful Aashram, and I am coming back just now. Hey Raam, Don't be so sad. Kaal's Gati is like that. People like you should not worry too much. Treasures get empty, progress changes into fall, people meet to separate and the end of life is death. Therefore one should not have too much attachment to sons, friends wealth etc, because they are made for separation. You are able to teach to all Lok, then why you yourself are so unstable? Ideal people like you do not feel attachment on such occasions. When you can console other people then it is not a big thing for you to control yourself. therefore you be patient and feel strong."

Hearing such words from Lakshman, Raam said - "Lakshman, You are right. I should keep myself busy now in royal official affairs. You have opened my eyes, now I am in myself and I feel detached."