Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan - Page 106

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

I still don't get it how they were able to tear Sita Devi from Ram even within their minds . . .

I agree that this in no way justifies them accusing Maharani Sita.

In Duryodhan's Army???😡

Why not make them Lavanasur's breakfast? 😈😈😈

Given Vishnu's sense of humor, he probably promised them that they'd be his Shamshaptakas in the Dwapar yuga - the army of fanatical fighters that Krishna had. And when it actually came to using them, Krishna gave them to Duryodhan, and they found themselves on the opposite side of him and Arjun. Am sure they appreciated the fact that all their Narayan bhakt resulted in them serving evil.😈

P.S. Glad Flock worked out for you & Ananya. Do you use their other included links, like Tinypic?

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

Reading the posts of Mandodari ji, Chandra Bhaiya and Lalitha Janaki, a doubt sprung up to my mind. Something that I was contemplating long back . . .

I am sure that Bharat would have know what happened to Ram, Sita and Lakshman. Atleast he would have known the fact that Sita was taken away and Ram was searching for her. My reason for believing this - A part of the vanaras were sent to the North as well in their quest for Sita. Surely Bharat would have come to know of what happened. Ayodhya had spies and definitely they would have informed Bharat and Shathrugan about it. If that was the case, what steps did Bharat and Shathrugan take to help Ram. I read in a book that Bharat and the King of Kasi tried to send their armies to Lanka but either they couldn't or before they could start Hanuman came with the news Ram was back. I too think they would not have reached on time to participate in the war.

In Valmiki, Bharat has no clue about the situation Rama is in, until after the war. Hanuman meeting him is only there in RamCharitManas, not in Valmiki. So there is no meeting between them, and Bharat doesn't know all this until the return.

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

Did the common people know of the quest of the vanaras. If so the news would have pread along with the insertions and additions by those who pass it on. They would have had enough time to discuss it all and then if they still doubted Sita's chastity, they wouldn't have been so joyous in her welcome. I think that the Washerman threw out his thoughts he had kept within himself or that he himself had thought about it at the time of sending away his wife and that started the people thinking along those lines.

What are your opinions on this, friends?

I have already exhausted my time here. It took some time to read through all the posts.

Would be back tonight 😉

Note that after Rama was crowned, the vanaras and Vibhishan spent a few months with him during which he heard the story of Ravan, Vali and others from a number of major rishis who visited him. That would probably have been the time that everyone in Ayodhya got familiar with what actually happened during their exile.

If the Ayodhya people got to know all this during this timeframe, that would answer Lalitha's doubt - they wouldn't have gotten to know about Sita's exile before Rama & Sita were crowned. It may even be that they didn't care about all this until this dhobi incident happened, when they started wondering what if their womenfolk use Sita as the precedent for staying away from home. But even that was inexcusable - had any woman actually done that, the counter argument should have been that Sita was forcibly separated from Rama, whereas the question of whether normal women had similar compelling circumstances would have to be determined on a case by case basis.

Originally posted by: coolpurvi

cant Ram the husband lament in his own chamber. Is he shedding tears in public? I m glad they showing his pain. Ram led a life of sanyasi he slept on floor etc after her sent her to ashram. Sagars shud show both things how he discharged all the duties of a kings. he tried to give his praja all happines while for hismself he choose the biggest sorrow .but they shud show the pain of Ram which he hided from all others. Its in no way affecting the story

Purvi

There is nothing in Valmiki that suggests that Rama led the life of a Sanyasi, slept on the floor, etc. If so, which verse is it? If not, where did you get it? Please don't say Ramanand Sagar, or cite any movie or serial. After Lakshman returned to Ayodhya, he told Rama (7:52), "According to your orders, I have left Jaanakee on the bank of Gangaa, near Vaalmeeki Muni's beautiful Aashram, and I am coming back just now. Hey Raam, Don't be so sad. Kaal's Gati is like that. People like you should not worry too much. Treasures get empty, progress changes into fall, people meet to separate and the end of life is death. Therefore one should not have too much attachment to sons, friends wealth etc, because they are made for separation. You are able to teach to all Lok, then why you yourself are so unstable? Ideal people like you do not feel attachment on such occasions. When you can console other people then it is not a big thing for you to control yourself. therefore you be patient and feel strong."

Hearing such words from Lakshman, Raam said - "Lakshman, You are right. I should keep myself busy now in royal official affairs. You have opened my eyes, now I am in myself and I feel detached."

Originally posted by: Khalrika

Chandra it does. I think the Avadhis😡😡😡 go to Santaanika world. If I am wrong correct me. Sugriva also goes with Ram after crowing Angad. It is Vibishna and Hanuman and a few others who are told to stay on in the world.

What happens to Vibishan after that? Does anyone know?

Here is what 7:108-111 have to say on this:

Sarg 108 - Shatrughn Comes to Raam

Messengers arrived in Mathuraa Puree soon and told Shatrughn about all - leaving Lakshman, Raam's going to Swarg, Raam's sons Abhishek, going of public with Raam; and in the end asked him to come soon. Hearing this terrible story of destruction of family, Shatrughn called Kaanchan named Purohit and told everything to him. He told him about the leaving of his own body too. Then Shatrughn performed Abhishek of Subaahu for Mathuraa and Shatrughaatee for Vaidish; and divided the wealth and army between them. He came to Ayodhyaa with the same messengers.

When he came to Ayodhyaa, he saw Raam sitting wearing only minimum silken clothes. He said to Raam - "I have come here after performing the Abhishek of my sons and making up my mind to go with you. Please do not order me to do anything else, because I do not want to disobey you in any way." Seeing Shatrughn's firm intention and decision, Raam said - "All right, You also come with me." Then all Vaanar, bears, Raakshas came to see Raam - "We will also go with you otherwise we will be like dead here." Sugreev said - "Hey Raam, I have done Angad's Abhishek and I am also ready to go."

Raam accepted their offer and said to Vibheeshan - "Hey Mitra, You will live and rule Lankaa till this public, Prithvi and my stories will stay. You always worship Jagannaath Jee, Devtaa of Ikshwaaku Kul." Then He said to Hanumaan - "Hey Pavan-Putra, You may wander in this world obeying me till my stories are alive in this world." Then Raam said to Jaambvaan, Maind and Dwivid - "You should be alive till Kali comes." Then He said to others - "As you have said, you may come with me."

Sarg 109 - Everybody Goes With Raam

Next day morning Raam said to Vashishth Jee - "Three fires of my Agnihotra should go in front with Braahman, materials and Vaajpeya Chhatra (umbrella) . Then Purohit Vashishth Jee completed all rites of Raam'a Mahaa Prasthaan, then Raam started for the bank of the Sarayoo carrying Kush in hand, reading Ved. On His right side was Padm (lotus flower) and Shree (Lakshmee), on His left side was Prithvi, various arrows, bows, other weapons in human form. Ved Gaayatree, Omkaar, Yashtrakaar followed Raam in Braahman form. Animals, birds, children, old people, servants, women of palace, Bharat, Shatrughn, ministers, public, employees, Agnihotra also followed Raam. Everybody was happy, nobody was sad. Whoever came to see this procession, they also started following Him. Thus all followed Raam and nobody was seen in Ayodhyaa.

Sarg 110 - All Arrive in Their Respective Lok

When Raam arrived on the banks of westward Sarayoo, then Brahmaa Jee came with millions of Vimaan. Dev Gan started showering flowers. As Raam entered Sarayoo, Brahmaa Jee said from the sky - "Hey Vishnu, Please come to Dev Lok along with you brothers. You may enter in whichever form you prefer - Vaishnav, idol, or sky. You are immortal, nobody can know your Maayaa." Hearing these words of Brahmaa Jee Raam entered Vaishnav Lok with His brothers with their mortal body.

Rishi, Gandharv, Daitya, Daanav all prayed Vishnu-like Raam. Indra said - "We are blessed by your coming here." Then Vishnu said to Brahmaa Jee - "Please give them some living place to all of them who have come with me. They are all my Bhakt. They have come with me leaving their interest in their own lives because of their love to me."

Brahmaa Jee said - "Whoever living beings are born in Tiryak Yoni and meditate you, they go to Sanaatan Lok, thus they all will go to Sanaatan Lok. Vaanar and bear may take their Devtaa form, Sugreev will enter Soorya Mandal." Hearing Brahmaa Jee, the people who were standing on the Goprataar Ghaat of Sarayoo River, sat in the waters with tears flowing, left their bodies and boarded their Vimaan. All kinds of living being left their bodies in Sarayoo waters and went to Dev Lok. Brahmaa Jee went to HisLlok after sending all to Swarg Lok.

Sarg 111 - Importance of This Epic

This is Vaalmeeki written Raamaayan with Uttar Kaand. Brahmaa has also admired it. It describes only that Vishnu's character and life story who is Omnipresent, who has gone to Swarg Lok from Mrityu Lok. The great Rishi, Devtaa, Maharshi get peace after hearing or reading it. This epic increases age span, destroys sins, gets sons, get wealth. And whoever reads it daily he gets sons and grandsons in this Lok and goes to Swarg Lok after death. Whoever reads even one Shlok of this epic, he is freed from all kinds of sins. Whosoever reads it any time of the day - morning, afternoon, he does not fall ill. After Raam Ayodhyaa will be without human beings for many years. Then later Rishabh Naabh will habitat Ayodhyaa in his times.

Iti Uttar Kaand

So as you can see, Rama and his family returned to Vaikuntha in their mortal bodies (too sad Lakshman and SUMS didn't have that privilege😭), while the subjects were taken to Sanaatan Lok, which is a different place.

As for where Vibhishan is today, I think Vibs is right, and that he's in the same place as Prahlad and Bali.

Originally posted by: coolpurvi

Today Sita is worshipped for her purity n benevolence n forbearance. Uttarkand made it possible

No, the agnipariksha was more than adequate. Note that not all people buy the part of the Ramayan about Sita's exile, but they still worship her no less. It's her ability to withstand Ravan that has made her so immortal in people's minds, not her subsequent suffering in the Uttarkand.

Originally posted by: coolpurvi

Regarding whether the avadhis shud have gone with Ram or not my view that Lord Ram had done right by forgiving them . In those days ther were no newspapers tv radio or IT nor copies of
valmiki Ramayn were available for all in the bookstalls of Ayodhya. People didnt knew how things actually happened nor they knew abt Ravan that he was not that cheap person. He has his own ideals which he followed. Tehy had no idea of lanka palace ashok vatika etc etc. they knew the half news. Its a old saying "Ignorace is cause of the evil' n same happende with avadhis. If we were at Ram's place we wud not have forgiven them reason we r mere mortal beings not
God. But He is God. He created everything our action its fruits all belongs to Him so He can forgive avadhis

You're welcome to that view. Where I was coming from was that the people of Ayodhya had a choice - they could have been generous and assumed the best of Sita, or they could have been vicious and assumed the worst of her. The latter is what they did. The question is not of who'd forgive them, but whether they deserved to be forgiven or not in the first place. Forgiveness is something that has to be earned, and is only attained after one has paid the price for ones sins, which the people of Ayodhya never did.

Rama may indeed have forgiven them. But equally possible is that he didn't want his sons burdened by them the way he was, which is why he took them with him.

P.S. No, I don't have any legal background, and nor have I studied law in any detail. I just mentioned what I did about conflict of interest since it's evident to even very casual observers.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

No, the agnipariksha was more than adequate. Note that not all people buy the part of the Ramayan about Sita's exile, but they still worship her no less. It's her ability to withstand Ravan that has made her so immortal in people's minds, not her subsequent suffering in the Uttarkand.

Originally posted by: bharat9

A question from the 19th of March Episode (last Thursday):

Hanumanji mentions Lord Ganesha to Shri Ram. But at that time, in Tretya-yug, were Lord Shiva and Ma Parvati married? From the stories heard before, like how Ma Sati goes to meet Ramji while Ramji were searching for Mata Sita during their exile period, it was thought that at that time Shivaji was married to Sati. So how come Ganesha ji is mentioned here?
Cud someone pls clarify this matter. Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Purvi

There is nothing in Valmiki that suggests that Rama led the life of a Sanyasi, slept on the floor, etc. If so, which verse is it? If not, where did you get it? Please don't say Ramanand Sagar, or cite any movie or serial. After Lakshman returned to Ayodhya, he told Rama (7:52), "According to your orders, I have left Jaanakee on the bank of Gangaa, near Vaalmeeki Muni's beautiful Aashram, and I am coming back just now. Hey Raam, Don't be so sad. Kaal's Gati is like that. People like you should not worry too much. Treasures get empty, progress changes into fall, people meet to separate and the end of life is death. Therefore one should not have too much attachment to sons, friends wealth etc, because they are made for separation. You are able to teach to all Lok, then why you yourself are so unstable? Ideal people like you do not feel attachment on such occasions. When you can console other people then it is not a big thing for you to control yourself. therefore you be patient and feel strong."

Hearing such words from Lakshman, Raam said - "Lakshman, You are right. I should keep myself busy now in royal official affairs. You have opened my eyes, now I am in myself and I feel detached."