Gul Khan, what are you playing at? - Page 10

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mehvy12 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#91

Originally posted by: Sanaa629



You're right. And you make a valid point that there's a vast audience. But bearing that there are people who can be influenced.. don't you think the show and their makers should exercise some caution over what they show? Since when did 'twisting arms behind the back and pulling you closer' become 'HOT'?? If someone did that to me, 1) I'd be hurt and 2) Even if I like him I'd want to use my other arm to slap him in his face because he's hurting me.

Remember when Asad slapped her.. some people on this forum actually romanticized that idea??!!! 😲 ..I mean.. 'it was a HOT slap .. you could see the love'...WHAT?? WHERE?? HOW?? Seriously?


I agree with you. It was definitely not romantic or hot the way he slapped her or the way he twisted her arm. I guess what I mean is that yes the show should take caution in what they show, but I feel there is only so much that can be limited. I feel that's where parents need to step in, because I'm sure many families watch this together. I watch this show with my dad and grandma, and they always say that she should not marry him and leave him because he's not treating her right. Since I'm not one to read too much into fictional shows, it doesn't have much of an impact on me. But this is not the case for everybody. In public health we are big on primary intervention, and in this case primary intervention I feel should be parents explaining what is shown on tv, or censoring what kids watch.

But I do agree with you that the show needs to take caution in what they show and dial down on the abuse, which is unfortunately being passed off as romance and what not.
Storybrooke thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#92
Which is why Zoya will have to be separated from Asad. He's proved time and time again that he does not respect her and does not trust her. So what if he loves her, if he can't give her his confidence in her then she should not be with him. Zoya has forgiven him time and time again, but it will reach a point where she no longer won't.

I sense a separation track in the future (heck they probably aren't even going to be married).
Edited by Storybrooke - 12 years ago
Shaktipreeth thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#93

Originally posted by: Sanaa629



With all due respect, this post isn't about concentrating on what Asad did. This post is about Gul portraying women as weak and irrational. This portrayal of women will get to the real women's minds. Why do you think Women still live with alcoholics and abusers? You said it, because they have the hope that the guy will change. Sorry, but where do many of them get their hope from? Especially in India? TV series! So they see the girl in the dramas being mistreated by the guy and the girl putting up with it. They'll think 'if she can do it so can I'.. but once they see the girl stand up for herself, and show the women that this is actually not right, they think 'this is wrong!' clearly, they'll apply it to their own lives and realize they're living a lie. The guy probably will never change and it's high time she should leave him (providing she can).

You basically countered your own argument here.


Hey do you really think that women will tolerate abuse just because a girl in a show does it. Sorry. I come from a family where my father ill treated my mom, neither did he watch a serial nor did my mom. She had 2 daughters to take care and nowhere to go. And my mother took the abuse not because she was weak but because she was strong. And she was just 21 when this started. Isn't the average age of a serial watcher that much? People are who they are irrespective of what they watch. I am sorry I don't agree with you. Yes one can imitate dressing sense, hairstyle but can a reserved person become talkative like zoya overnight. Nope sorry. We have innate behaviours that we re born with and then we have environment that we grow up with. I think this 6 months of serial watching cannot change who we are. If that is the case IPKKD should have increased the cases of abuse and door mats. I think people who should watch the serial should be 18 so that they understand the difference between fiction and reality. Yes Gil is showing azad being rude and stuff, but zoya is not weak, when ever she has been accused of something zoya has stood up for herself and proved azad wrong. Gil is showing how dilshad all alone has taken care of her 2 kids in spite of rashid leaving her. She did not become a chronic depressed psycho. Badi bi is showing strength of character too. In our world as well as fiction we will find different people some outwardly strong some inner strength. I think you should tell your cousin to just watch children's shows till she is mature enough to understand between fact and fiction!
IntrovertedDame thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#94
At the end of the day, all we are suggesting is this-

1, FICTION AND REALITY

By no means do we expect ideal situations and characters to be portrayed on this show. When in real life, people have plenty of flaws, why shouldn't fictional ones?

The real cause for concern for all of us is how the situations as a whole in this show gets repetitive. When you show the male lead systematically showing a pattern of behaviour, it is indeed troubling.

And when you show that his high-handedness is a positive, appealing attribute for women- it forces one to question: what the hell do the makers think of women? Leave alone this show, the USP of this particular production company for all its shows is the formula of an angry young man and a bubbly heroine who is alternatively attracted to and is reduced to tears at the drop of a hat by the hero's antics.

Someone here said that soaps are by definition frothy and are not meant to be taken seriously. But even in the police procedural series (which can be claimed to be more 'serious' than a soap) ,that is produced by the same production company shows the same kind of relationship- earlier with the first female lead who died, and now replicating it with the new lead!

Coming to QH...let's say, Asad was initially a man who was rigid, stuck to his principles, disliked forward thinking women. And it is these attributes which led to his conflict with Zoya. Both real life and fiction is ridden with conflicts!

I would have liked it if the makers had shown his character gradually evolving. But NO.

Not only does the character persist in his behaviour, it is also troubling how the makers seek to reinforce some convoluted idea of love and romance through his overpowering nature.

When you try to show and enforce standards and ideals of romantic love, telling female viewers to be silent if the man abuses you, he loves you passionately anyway- it is a cause for concern. And that is just a slap on the faces of so many women who have left behind their insecure, alcoholic, physically or verbally abusive husbands than suffer in silence. (And to be clear, I am not implying that silent women victims deserve less empathy.)

2. INDIVIDUAL AND MEDIA RESPONSIBILITY

I completely agree that at the end of the day, it lies in the individual's hands as to what he/she takes from a soap, a movie or a video game. It is a product, meant to be sold. Responsibility doesn't lie with the producers alone, but also the consumers.

There are many people who have the detachment and awareness to exercise this responsibility. But to expect this on a large scale, I think, is a tad idealistic, and if I may add- impossible. Today's soaps and movies have so much of adult content in them- sex and violence are the two winning models, that there is only a certain amount of control that parents may exert on their children. The message doesn't even have to be explicit. Even a frickin male perfume ad has the woman lustfully sniffing the man as the guy smirks. The subconscious message is clear: women are objects of pleasure to be won over by materialistic things like perfumes and cars.

But the producers' side cannot be dismissed entirely as well. We are certainly not suggesting that the media alone is responsible for certain societal attitudes and behaviours, but it is undeniable that it has a major role to play, and that there is a definite correlation between the two, if not causation. For instance, studies show how children playing video games over a period of time have been found to display increased levels of aggression.

There are even games which encourage players to 'rape' a virtual woman character to proceed to the next level! How about that! The subliminal message received is clear! If that is entertainment, sorry, I just don't see the point of why we shouldn't protest against it.

3. THE NEED OF THE HOUR

In such a situation, all I am saying is- can we afford to turn a blind eye, be content and complacent that I am a person who watches a show or a movie with discretion, will tell my kids what to watch and not to watch, others can go hang? In the US, for example, they take this very seriously- there is a committee of TV viewers who annually vote against shows and movies undesirable for certain age groups because of the sheer amount of sex, violence and crudity in their content.

Freedom of expression may be very good, but every freedom, every right is earned, isn't it? Each comes with its share of responsibilities and pitfalls? Even on IF, an online forum to discuss TV shows, we have moderators in place to make sure things aren't getting out of hand.

Media producers, individual viewers, parents, the government, advertisers- all have a collaborative role to play in such a scenario. It is impossible to monitor every show and every movie, but let there be a way through which one can be entertained by ,laugh and cry with, and love the characters without being entirely led away.

The need of the hour is for all of us to collectively develop a critical outlook which will enable us to distinguish between healthy entertainment and cheap tricks which only perpetuate gender/racial stereotypes to gain viewership. And to know that some things just aren't acceptable as 'entertainment'.

P.S. This is only my POV, No offense intended to anyone.

Edited by Amri174 - 12 years ago
Sanaa629 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#95

Originally posted by: RandomSquared


Absolutely!!!
Where do you draw the line when you start censoring and compromising with what the media can and can not show? What's the difference between this and people who say item songs are to blame for rape?

If anything, this show should push us to have conversations with the youth who we are so afraid will be influenced badly. Talk to them and explain to them how THIS is not reality. Why should the media have to do the job which is initially assigned to parents and guardians? Yes indeed they have a social responsibility but they have a greater responsibility to their channel, their job is to entertain and tell the story they want to tell.



You don't draw the line.. but you COULD be cautious. Think of the message being sent out to everyone. YES it's just plain entertainment. But entertainment imprint itself in impressionable minds. Media shouldn't have to do the job parents and guardians should.. but shouldn't they exercise a BIT of caution?
Sanaa629 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#96

Originally posted by: Amri174

At the end of the day, all we are suggesting is this-


1, FICTION AND REALITY

By no means do we expect ideal situations and characters to be portrayed on this show. When in real life, people have plenty of flaws, why shouldn't fictional ones?

The real cause for concern for all of us is how the situations as a whole in this show gets repetitive. When you show the male lead systematically showing a pattern of behaviour, it is indeed troubling.

And when you show that his high-handedness is a positive, appealing attribute for women- it forces one to question: what the hell do the makers think of the female gender? Leave alone this show, the USP of this particular production company for all its shows is the formula of an angry young man and a bubbly heroine who is alternatively attracted to and is reduced to tears at the drop of a hat by the hero's antics.

Let's say, Asad was initially a man who was rigid, stuck to his principles, disliked forward thinking women. And it is these attributes which led to his conflict with Zoya. Both real life and fiction is ridden with conflicts!

I would have liked it if the makers had shown his character gradually evolving. But NO.

Not only does the character persist in his behaviour, it is also troubling how the makers seek to reinforce some convoluted idea of love and romance through his overpowering nature.

When you try to show and enforce standards and ideals of romantic love, telling female viewers that be silent if the man abuses you, he loves you passionately anyway- it is a cause for concern. And that is just a slap in the face of so many women who have left behind their insecure, alcoholic, physically or verbally abusive husbands than suffer in silence.

2. INDIVIDUAL AND MEDIA RESPONSIBILITY

I completely agree that at the end of the day, it lies in the individual's hands as to what he/she takes from a soap, a movie or a video game. Responsibility doesn't lie with the producers alone, but also the consumers.

There are many people who have the detachment and awareness to exercise this responsibility. But to expect this on a large scale, I think, is a tad idealistic, and if I may add- impossible. Today's soaps and movies have so much of adult content in them- sex and violence are the two winning models, that there is only a certain amount of control that parents may exert on their children. The message doesn't even have to be explicit. Even a frickin male perfume ad has the woman lustfully sniffing the man as the guy smirks. The subconscious message is clear: women are objects of pleasure to be won over by materialistic things like perfumes and cars.

But the producers' side cannot be dismissed entirely as well. We are certainly not suggesting that the media alone is responsible for certain societal attitudes and behaviours, but it is undeniable that it has a major role to play, and that there is a definite correlation between the two, if not causation. Children playing video games over hours have been found to display increased levels of aggression.

There are even games which encourage players to 'rape' a virtual woman character to proceed to the next level! How about that! The subliminal message received is clear! If that is entertainment, sorry, I just don't see the point of why we shouldn't protest against it.

3. THE NEED OF THE HOUR

In such a situation, all I am saying is- can we afford to turn a blind eye, be content and complacent that I am a person who watches a show or a movie with discretion, will tell my kids what to watch and not to watch, others can go hang? In the US, for example, they take this very seriously- there is a committee of TV viewers who annually vote against shows and movies undesirable for certain age groups because of the sheer amount of sex, violence and crudity in their content.

Freedom of expression may be very good, but every freedom, every right is earned, isn't it? And it comes with its share of responsibilities and pitfalls?

Media producers, individual viewers, parents, the government, advertisers- all have a collaborative role to play in such a scenario. It is impossible to monitor every show and every movie, but let there be a way through which one can be entertained,laugh and cry with, and love the characters without being entirely led away.

The need of the hour is for all of us to collectively develop a critical outlook which will enable us to distinguish between healthy entertainment and cheap tricks which only perpetuate gender/racial stereotypes and use nudity to gain viewership. And to know that certain things just aren't acceptable as 'entertainment'.

P.S. This is only my POV, No offense intended to anyone.



Thank you SOOO much!! Maybe I wasn't clear enough hence I felt myself repeating all this while replying to everyone.

To everyone else - I KNOW parents have a major role in the upbringing of their child. But doesn't media and 'entertainment' industry have a BIT of responsibility to what it's showing? Towards the public? Even though we deny it, there are impressionable minds in this world, especially during their teens. By romanticizing a dark, brooding, troubled guy, and having a girl put up him with and shed silent tears, then forgive him every single time what are the makers portraying women as exactly?

I'm not really going into the direction of domestic abuse, because it's a wide known fact it's wrong. And even series show it. But emotional and mental is more subtle. Just because it's not physical or measured, doesn't mean it's not there. it's the whole idea of insulting someone in front of everyone, humiliating them (time and time again) and then giving them a gift to make up for it and brush it under the carpet as though it didn't happen! It's how Asad doesn't think twice before giving her a piece of his mind, but then when she was trying to give him hers, he kept the gift on the bedside table and ran away! It's how he keeps berating her over and over again without another thought, but has to have a third person intervene and knock sense in him to apologize! But it's her forgiving him continuously, and him repeating the same mistake. It's all then forgotten about because he 'LOVES' her.. and awwhh.. look he's taken her on a date.. what sort of effect is that having on these impressionable minds?
Edited by Sanaa629 - 12 years ago
IntrovertedDame thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#97
^ Exactly!

Parents are the primary influences, of course, but one cannot absolve the media of all responsibility.

Thanks for making this post, BTW...it has led to a flurry of discussion, and it is delightful to read several responses and viewpoints!!!
LivingInPajamas thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#98
Brilliant post! Am not a regular QH viewer but having been a part of the fandom of Gul's previous "baby", I certainly know what you are talking about! I am sixteen and I am glad I never set my eyes on either Twilight or Fifty shades of grey. I never was interested to be honest and the bits and pieces I heard from my friends put me off.
Coming to television, its no news that Gul loves to make her male leads the personification of torture-emotional and physical. I will not lie, I love the romance she shows between emotionally challenged male leads and chirpy female ones. But I think that is the only extent my enjoyment goes to. An year and a half ago I would have told you the same thing your cousin did. But I remember reading posts on IF which emphasised the very things your post did. And those changed my opinions. I realised what was horribly wrong in the way they portray things in the name of fiction and then try taking it back with a simple "sorry". And somehow, viewers actually take these things so lightly. My friends blamed me for being "too much of a feminist". All I was saying was that the male lead had no right to torture someone over days and say a simple sorry and get away with it.

To each her own I guess. I watch, I move on.
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Posted: 12 years ago
#99

Originally posted by: Sanaa629



You don't draw the line.. but you COULD be cautious. Think of the message being sent out to everyone. YES it's just plain entertainment. But entertainment imprint itself in impressionable minds. Media shouldn't have to do the job parents and guardians should.. but shouldn't they exercise a BIT of caution?


You put a lid on one thing thing then it's a domino effect.

As an audience we have full rights to criticise but it's Gul's predicament to acknowledge it.
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Sanaa629



You don't draw the line.. but you COULD be cautious. Think of the message being sent out to everyone. YES it's just plain entertainment. But entertainment imprint itself in impressionable minds. Media shouldn't have to do the job parents and guardians should.. but shouldn't they exercise a BIT of caution?



I also completely believe in the freedom of expression, but with freedom comes responsibilities. It's not only the children who are affected by such messages! On a subtle level we all are... it's a collective reaction (like someone mentioned before). It may not affect you or me or anyone else individually but on the whole it definitely does. It is not uncommon to see things that are shown on tv, happening in the neighborhood. And although we may think it's wrong, we still accept it because its on tv. There are so many dowry cases, so many domestic violence cases, so so many... be it the east or the west, it's everywhere. every. where.

And when it does come to kids, you may wish to control them... but the more they feel controlled, the more they rebel. If you don't allow them to do things in front of you, they do it behind your back. Most parents never wish ill for their kids, but even then some kids go on to doing things like drugs etc. How are the parents to be blamed then? And after all, these kids have the freedom of expression too... by using and doing all that they may. And some day, these kids will be adults who are responsible for their own decisions - are you still going to be able to control them? Like I said, the message effects everyone receiving it - in a good or bad way.

And I don't advocate any actions like drugs or etc... just like I won't advocate what Gul shows in her shows. Every single person has a moral responsibility whether they like it or not. And my only problem with Gul is that... She has such a beautiful story line, with so much potential, so much following, and such wonderful actors... and she is so influential, then why isn't she using her power to bring about a change, for the better? Why not support a progressive thinking society? And with all the stuff they are showing now, it doesn't only demean women but also ruins the story line which has a really good potential.

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