Please try to answer - Page 5

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

Accha what do you think about Indonesian Mahabharat? How much can be true? so that's why I am asking, what's your opinion?

actually I am writing everything in a separate post as it will become veryyyyyy big.

I haven't read the Indonesian one. I mean there's some truth in all of them, now how many percent, that a matter of serious research.

The answers that you quoted are really well-written actually, sums up the political situation pretty aptly, I don't think I can personally add anything to it.

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

@wayward

Hey I am sorry to ask so many questions, Actually now I realized that I am taking out questions out of your replies but what to do, I wanted to ask so many things, even yesterday I asked at least 4-5 questions and that too itne bade bade posts karke but now you are the only one who is replying so asking.

Have you watched BR Mahabharat? I think almost everyone has watched, so which one did you like, I mean BR was more authentic so facts ke according toh yes BR has + points, but what all things you did not like in BR and what all things you liked. Same with starplus wala MB, what all things you did not like and what all things you liked

Not at all man, actually I am really enjoying a proper back-and-forth discussion after so long! I really, really love MB, and talking about it finally feels like a damned boulder off my brain. Please feel free to continue to discussion.

BR Chopra's full I haven't watched, but I've seen most of the highlights. The things I liked were the attention to detail in all the scenes, the beautiful songs and an honest effort highlight Vyasa's magnum opus. One thing I expressly dislike, is that it brought the andhe-ka-putra andha scene into mainstream from that darned play. That bought Draupadi a lot of phaltu ka backlash. Also, the semi-deification of Karna...full BRC ka personal bias seeping into the story...he altered a lot of scenes to mold them in favour of Karna, that was unfair in my opinion.

Star plus ka toh if you saw the old forum you must've seen, we all kinda refused to acknowledge it as a proper MB version, and just called it StartBharat or ArjunBharat! They recreated the freaking 3 Idiots wala Raju-Pia ka bhagne ka scene with Arjun-Rukmini, and played volleyball in Varnavart with Kunti as the ball! I used to have an ongoing bet with my friends back then, you give me literally any episode and I'll give you at least 10 inaccuracies, even in the fillers!

But one thing I must say, the star cast was STELLAR. They could've made a series rivaling the likes of Game of Thrones or something if they'd just paid a LITTLE more attention to the story they were portraying.

Originally posted by: wayward

I don't know why, but at this hour I am watching Radha Krishn serial where Krishna leaves the Earth

before this I have seen only few episode, like I just watched 20-30 episodes or 40 episodes from here and there and that too for time pass, I don't know what made me watch this right now, I will come back after watching

Wait, why they have played Bhagwat Geeta related song here "vyarth chinta hai jeevan ki vyarth hai mrityu kaa bhay"

and he has been shot here, I don't know how Krishn vani started here, but I have fast forwarded that, sorry no disrespect but I wanted to watch the main thing, I am sorry but this is what I don't like, I mean he is remembering Radha only here also, the BGM tum bina mai kuch nahi Radhika prya.

but my question is they were always together in this serial so why so emotional now. In this serial it felt as if his wives have been cursed for separation and not Radha, leave 100 years, they were not separated for more than a month in this serial.

wait wait wait, he is apologizing ki mata Gandhari mujhe kshama kar dijiye, aaj mujhe uss asehniya peeda kaa anubhav ho raha hai jo aapko kurukshetra ke yudh ke baad hua hoga, OK I get that as well.

But as far as I have read from the written updates of this serial that he was waiting for everything to get over as soon as possible and now he is crying here. But whatever we say, the scene is very emotional.

Who was that little girl who was saying Radhe Radhe after which even Krishn said Radhe Radhe.

accha why did they not show Parth coming to take the people and Krishna's earthly body.

There Gods are waiting for his welcome and here they are planning to do Ras, bhai pehle swaagat karva lijiye naa, they are waiting for you, Radha Krishn have changed some kind of dhara (prem dhara) and they have started Ras and still Gods are waiting

OK the producer says that they got the chance to show the story of this unique and divine pare and they were thinking that whether they will able to give justice to them or not and they glad that they could show this, Here MR. Siddharth Tuary and both the actors come together and say Radhe Radhe

and the series ends.

Bhai RadhaKrishna maine 4-5 hi epis dekhi thi...baki na mujhe dekhna hai na janna hai, but sunke jo expected tha wahi laga.

Originally posted by: wayward

OK so I liked star MB kaa cast, their BGM and their way of showing the chemistry of people, actually to be very honest if they would have been authentic with their script then it would have been awesome, actually thodi bohot creative liberty is OK but they just took so much liberty.

Actually I think they tried to refer to different versions of MB and they ended up making khichdi, if we go by Indonesian version then actually Karn and Arjun huggd each other and they had respect for each other, in fact in that version they did not wanted to fight with each other but then decided to follow their path and duty. Then in South Indian version I think there is an entire chapter on Subhadra and Arjun love story.

then that Arjun helping Rukmini and Krishna comes from the story of Kalindi I guess, instead of Kalindi they showed Rukmini and added their own twist. In fact in the Indonesian version both Krishna and Arjun were present in Rukmini swayamber and they both fought with each other then I don't remember who stopped their fight (actually I have heard the Indonesian version from someone but not read myself).

So according to me they took different things from different versions, added their own twist and ended up making a tasteless khichdi because vo kuch bhi nahi ban paya and authentic toh bilkul bhi nahi.

OK so I thought to start with Arjun Krishn relation in BR MB, but then I thought to start with the dialogue delivery.

If we talk about their dialogue delivery, then I don't know why but for me it felt as if books and pages are talking to each other, just watch any episode after reading this comment, you will find them talking something like

Bhishm: "phir bhi agar Yudhishthir vah dao jeet jata toh Hastinapur ke sar se shakuni kaa shraap sada sada keliye hat jata" then again he stresses on the last few words "sada sada keliye hat jata" I mean ek baar theek hai, why to say same thing two two times, ek baar sun kar dekhna, it looks extremely bookish.

Its like "mai ye kaise kar sakta hoon, kaise kar sakta hoon" "mera hridya toot raha hai, hriday toot raha hai"

sometimes it looks OK but when you see same thing happening again and again then it looks very boring.

now talking about authenticity

I agree that BR kaa most part was authentic but according to me they had their own biases but they very smartly presented that unlike current shows where you can at least clearly identify/recognize that where they are wrong, this karn thing and "andhe kaa puttra andha" is so deeply stuck in people's mind specially our older generations mind that it is difficult to even explain them, at least this generation ko you can try to explain but the generation above still thinks those to be true, specially those who just saw everything on TV.

in fact they have shown that Karn defeated Arjun on 16th day or something like that I don't remember clearly but we all know that its not true, that Gandharva war where Karn left Duryodhan and ran away there they have shown that he was drunk and there are so many things which are not true there as well.

Originally posted by: wayward

Now if we talk about BR MB then I actually want to say something, I don't know what people think but according to me the Krishna in Br Chopra Mahabharat was exceedingly preachy towards Arjun, like ek toh I have not watched all the episodes but which ever episodes I have seen in that it never felt as if they both are friends. Whenever he got the opportunity he started preaching Arjun, they hardly talked like humans, even they showed Krishna scolding Arjun for calling Karn a Suta Putra, I don't remember when Arjun said this and when he got scolded for saying this, First off all, Arjun was NOT an abuser, I mean even if we ignore the fact that whether he said this or not but if same thing we say in English ki "son of charioteer" then its fine, but how sut puttra is bad then and sut was not even a lower cast. It was a normal thing to call Karn as son of Sut, even Duryodhan did it, even Dhritrashtra did it. It was NOT a slang. They (Krishna and Arjun) used to have great time together. It was not always the teacher student equation. Again, STAR MAHABHARAT did this far better. They were the best friends. If we remember then Krishna entrusted his entire family on Arjun when he left the Earth and when everything was getting destroyed.

Wait let me tell this with an example, so it goes like this:

Arjun was grieving in vanvas after Vastraharan, here comes Madhav who is known to be Parth's beeeeeeeeeest friend.

Arjun: Vasudev (point to be noted that the man just said 1 word, Vasudev and here Vasudev gets started)

Krishn: itna dukh karne kaa koi karan nahi hai Parth, Draupadi vastra haran sabhyata kaa vastra haran tha, sanskriti kaa vast haran tha, maryada kaa vastra haran tha, isiliye ye dukh keval tumhara yaa keval tum 5 pandav bhaiyon kaa hi nahi hai, ye dukh toh hai bhoot, vartmaan aur bhavishya kaa, sari manav jati kaa, manav jati ke iss samuddra mei keval tum toh ek boond ho Parth, keval ek boond, aur keval ek boond sagar ke daitvon kaa bojh nahi utha sakti, vo chahe dukh ho yaa sukh, apne bhaag se adhik nahi lena chahiye Parth.

Translated in English

Parth, there is no reason to grieve so much. Draupadi's disrobing was not just a violation of modesty, it was a violation of civilization, a violation of culture, a violation of decency. That's why this sorrow is not only yours or just the sorrow of the five Pandava brothers; it is the sorrow of the past, the present, and the future. It is the sorrow of all of humanity. In the vast ocean of humanity, Parth, you are just a drop, merely a drop. And a single drop cannot bear the burden of the entire ocean, whether it be sorrow or happiness. One should not take more than one's share, Parth.

Tell me, the man was grieving and who gives sooooo lamba gyaan to a person who was already grieving, even in MB texts he does not give so much gyaan to Arjun before Bhagwat Geeta jitna isme diya hai unhone, even when he came to see them in vanvas then also he told about what all happened and how he was fighting, he consoled Draupadi and told Arjun that who is your dushman is mera bhi dushman and who is your friend is mera bhi friend, but no gyaan ws given.

I don't know why but acting wise yes Nitish Bhardwaj sir was good but the script was like that or what I don't know, it felt as if koi toh hai Arjun jisko help chahiye type bond.

accha can you tell any episode where Krishn and Arjun actually spent time like friends in BR Chopra's Mahabharat, actually I could not find any so I am asking you, I will definitely ask if I get.

I will be back with Yudi thing after some time, abhi bohot lamba post kar diya so........

Originally posted by: wayward

I haven't read the Indonesian one. I mean there's some truth in all of them, now how many percent, that a matter of serious research.

So I saw someone telling about the Indonesian version in the different versions MB thread of MB forum. Let me copy paste it here.

Its very biiiig, but I think you should read vastra haran and dushi killing, its very dangerous.

btw thanks for tolerating my huge replies which are almost like an essay.

In the Indonesian version...

Satyavati and Parashara is a happily married couple, whereas in the Indian version it is just a one-day' affair. Here Satyabati is a member of the royal palace, whereas in the Indian version she is brought up by a fisherman.

Kresna Dwaipayana is the actual King of Hastinapura after the death of Bhisma's brothers. He rules the country wisely. The life in his kingdom is just and prosperous. Later he steps down as king and carries on a life as a hermit. He changes his name to Begaban Abiyoso(Vyasa). There is no niyoga here; Vyasa actually marries the Princesses of Kasi Kingdom, Ambika and Ambalika, after the death of his half-brothers.

King Sentanu (Shantanu) and the queen of Hastinapura Satyawati or Durgandini sends Bhisma to join the contest in Kasi to win the three princesses Amba, Ambika and Ambalika for his two younger brothers, Citragada and Citrasena (Chitrangada and Bichitrabirya). Shantanu is alive when Bhisma goes to the Swamvara. In the Indian version Shantanu and Chitrangada are already dead.

Amba falls in love with Bhisma and wants to marry him. Bhisma tries hard to convince her of the impossibility of the union. He asks Amba to marry with her lover, Salwa, the King of Soba Kingdom. But she has already admitted Bhisma as her husband. 😕Bhisma desperately tries to scare her with his arrow.😆 Amba says she would rather die than live in shame. Unintentionally the arrow gets shot, and Amba is killed. Amba's spirit curses Bhisma that in Baratayuda she would pick-up his soul through a lady-warrior expert in archery. Bhisma deeply regrets the accident because he has also started loving Amba. After his death in Baratayuda, his soul and Amba's, live together happily in eternal life in heaven.😳There is no Bhisma-Parashuram duel here or Amba's reincarnation. Bhisma is more humane here with a vibrating heart beneath his ascetic mask.

Gendari (Gandhari) plants hatred in the mind of her sons against Pendawa(Pandavas) because her love to Pandu is rejected. 😲That is why the Korawa(Kauravas) always hate the Pendawa since their childhood. Gandhari is portrayed as an evil character.Kantakari (Gandhari) wishes to see the children of Kuncutevi (Kunti) dead. She tries to kill them. In the seventh month of Kuncutevi's pregnancy, Kantakari tries to poison Kuncutevi. Once, seeing blood coming out through the drain of a room where the Pandavas are sleeping, Kantakari, assuming that the Pandavas are killed, rejoices and bathes in the blood.She is depicted as a blood-thirsty woman.

King Pandu appoints Sangkuni (Shakuni) as his chief minister, after Gandamana quits. In the Indian version Shakuni gains prominence only after Dhritarashtra ascends throne.

Sursena's cousin Sang Kuntiboja raises Kunti and ratu pedanda siwa budha' (high priest) performs upacara meningkat dewasa', her puberty ceremony.The Indonesian version tallies with the Indian in that Kunti menstruates when Durvasa/Brahmana stays as a guest in Kuntibhoja's house. Here is something new that Kunti is Ratu Begawan Duwasena's' (Durvasa) disciple. The rest of the story is similar.

One night, attracted by Kunti's mantra, Betara Surya(Sun-God) arrives. The young Kunti is trapped by god Surya and becomes pregnant. His father is very angry. Thus, here Kuntibhoja knows Kunti's childbirth. Betara Surya admits his responsibility. The Indian Surya slipped away! With Surya's magical strength, Kunti delivers a son through her ear and remains a virgin. As the son is born through ear, his name is Karna, or Suryaputra or Suryaatmaja. In Javanese traditional teachings, ears are the gate of amorous desire.

According to one version of Wayang, Sang Prabhu Pandu is alive when his sons become disciples of Risi Krepa and Rsi Drona. The Indian version has Pandu long been dead.Here Puntadewo (Yudistira), Bratasena (Bima) and Permadi (Arjuna) all three are Pandu's biological sons. The Gods are the Pandavas' spiritual fathers.

Widura (Vidura) marries Padmarini, the daughter of King Dipakendra of Pangombakan. He gets a son, Sanjaya and two daughters, Padmasari and Padmawati. Here, Sanjaya is Vidura's son. Vidura is also the father-in-law of Nakula and Sahadeva.

The lac house is set at Balai Sigala-gala, a retreat palace of Bharata family. The conspiring Kauravas are present with the Pandavas. It is Narada who comes and reveals to the Pandavas about the conspiracy. When the fire begins to burn the palace, they follow a Garangan (white squirrel) and escape through an underground tunnel. Narada vanishes. In the Indian version, Dhritarashtra sends the Pandavas to Varnabarta. Vidura realises the conspiracy and appoints a Khanaka (tunnel-digger). The presence of at least some of the Kauravas has a parallel in the Keralian Bharatam Pattu, where Karna and Shakuni surround the lac house and set fire to it.

Kresna calls Yuddhishtir Samiaji. His other name is Guna Talikrama. His childhood name is Puntodewa . He has a holy heirloom Jamus Kalimasada, for protection, truth and mastering the true knowledge of life (Ilmu Sejati). When he sees a terrible injustice, he becomes angry and automatically transforms (Triwikrama) into a huge white giant.👏Yudhishthira cannot reject the gambling proposal by Korawa and Sengkuni because he is seduced by forbidden Mo Limo .Yudhishthira takes active part in cleansing the jungle of Wanamarta. This episode is known as Babat Wanamarta. He has to face a spirit-giant in a duel. The giant has an heirloom in the form of a set of earrings. He challenges Yudhishthira to wear his earrings. If he is strong enough to wear the earrings, then the spirit-giant would surrender. Yudhishthira proves to be strong to wear them and the giant accepts his defeat. He wishes to serve Yudhishthira forever, In Baratayuda, the giant does nothing when Yudhishthira fights against King Salya.After the Baratayuda, he rules Hastinapura again with his new name, Prabu Kalimataya.

Bima or Werkudara's other names are Bayu Tanaya, Dandum Wacana, Kusuma Waligita, Bondan Paksajandu and Satria Jodipati. His name as a child was Arya Bratasena. Once he becomes a king of Gilingwesi by the name of Prabu Tungguwasesa .Besides a well known warrior, Bhima is a spiritual person in pursuit of the knowledge of truth (Ilmu Sejati). In search of Holy Water- Perwitasari, the essence of life he becomes omniscient. He becomes a fighter of truth, a Satrio Pinandito, who has mastered the knowledge of truth - Ilmu sejati,. He has a separate palace named Jodypati. To everybody, even to Dewas (gods) he speaks in Ngoko language (lower level language). Only to Dewa Ruci (a God resembling him) he speaks in Kromo Inggil language (high level language). This shows he never thinks of himself as elite, but is a very down-to-earth person.👏

Arjuna's name as a boy is Permadi.He is a religious-minded adventurer who never keeps himself confined within the Karaton (Kuru) wall. Sometimes, he lives as an ascetic, sometimes he goes to remote places to learn from a guru or sometimes he meditates alone.Arjuna is also incarnation of Wisnu (Vishnu). In the episode of Kresna's (Krishna) marriage with Rukmini, both of them appear as Wisnu, fighting each other.😲😆 It is stopped immediately by Barata Guru.Dewi Rukmini, the daughter of Prabu Bismaka. Once, she dreams of making love with Kresna in his Triwikrama (a giant) state. A giant son is born - Saronodewo.😳

In the Indonesian version Arjuna and Karna have identical looks!😊In her swamvara Draupadi looks at Karna with desire, because she confuses Karna for Arjuna.In Draupadi's swamvara, one by one archers including king Shalya and Duryodhana fails. When Karna's term comes, many people believe that he should be the winner, after seeing him raise the bow. But he misses the target and fails.

Kangsa (our very familiar Kamsha-mama) organizes a "cock fight" to eliminate Krishna-Balaram.🤣Suratrimantra is his cock-fighter. He is sure, Kakrasana(Balaram) and Narayana should appear to see the fight. Then they would be killed. But in the thrilling fight the robust giant Suratrimantra is killed by Bratasena (young Bima). Kangsa is caught and assassinated by Permadi (Arjuna).🤔This is indeed a great twist that Kansha is killed by Arjuna.

Nakula's name as a child was Pinten. Nakula-Sahadeva has never seen their father as when they were born Pandu had died. Soon their mother died too, at young age. Only with their help, King Salya - the chief-warrior of Hastinapura could be quickly eliminated. After the Baratayuda, honouring King Salya's wish, they become rulers of Mandaraka (Madra).Nakula's court domain is Sawojajar. He is an expert in agriculture.Sahadeva's childhood name was Tangsen. He is an expert in animal husbandry. Sadewa has a padepokan/spiritual retreat-Bumi Retawu . As a result of his solemn spiritual deeds he becomes a Satrio Pinandito (Kshatriya Pandit). With his powerful spiritual strength, he is able to release Betari Durga from her punishment. Sadewa helps her to gain back her true consciousness; she becomes again Dewi Uma, the wife of Betara Guru.

One Javanese Wayang sub-variation of Draupadi's swamvara is however different. Here there is no archery competition.The winner of the contest is to be the one, who can defeat, Patih Gandamana, uncle of Draupadi, in a duel battle. It is as per the wish of king Drupada. Meanwhile Kunti and Pandavas decide to join the contest, with the purpose to get a wife for Yudhishthira. As Bima is already a married man, he represents Yudhidhthira, defeats Gandamana and wins her for his elder brother. Gandamana knows of his imminent death and gives his strength to Bhima before his death.It is Bhima and not Arjuna who wins Draupadi.😛Bhima shoots and hits the rau bird in swamvara, which is the target in this case.

When Dursasana tries to undress Draupadi in front of the public, she is saved by Batara Darma, the god of justice. She vows that she would never wear a breast-cloth if not made from Dursasana skin!!Hearing that Dussasana has fallen, Draupadi goes to the battlefield and puts her foot on his chest. Bhima tears Dussasana's body into pieces and Drinks his blood. Draupadi wears the liver as a garland, collects the teeth of Dussasana and laughs.

Kencaka (Kichaka) has uncontrollable desire towards women. Kencaka is at first lustful to her and tries to possess her by temptation, but gradually his lust turns to love.😳 He proposes her to be his official wife by the consent of the queen. With only two weeks time left for the end of the incognito exile, the situation poses a threat to the Pandavas. One night, Bima kills Kichaka. The Indonesian version gives Kichaka a human face as his lust turns to love. After the news of the death of Kencaka reaches the intelligent force of Korawa, they analyse, the killer has to be Bima and decides to attack Virata.

Dewi Wara Sembadra is the twin sister of Narajana/Kresna. She is a charming, black-sweet' lady Dewi Roro Ireng. She is also very wise as an incarnation of Wisnu. Here, Basudewa and Pandu decide her marriage. Arjuna marries Subhadra with all pomp in a rather social' way. There is no Subhadra-harana by Arjuna. Even Pandu is alive at the time of the marriage. There is however Subhadra-harana by Bhurishrava (or by a giant according to another sub-variation) and Arjuna is the rescuer (Ghatothkacha in another variation).

The Indonesian version gives important place to the Pandava servants (the Ponokawans). Everywhere Arjuna goes, he is always escorted by his loyal servant, Semar, accompanied by his sons Gareng, Petruk, Bagong. They are inseparable. Semar is actually God Ismaya and it is his duty to always protect Arjuna. Semar is never tired to give wise advice to Arjuna.It is a unique master-servant relation!

Drona as a youngster his name was Bambang Kumbayana. Durna's father is a Brahmana (Hindu priest). Here there is no mention of his father or birth from his father's ejaculated semen.Gandamana from Cempala or Panchala kingdom is his ex-rival. Gandamana is Patih of Hastinapura. This is a remarkable departure from the Indian narrative that a man from Panchala is chief minister of Hastinapur. In the Indian version Kuru-Panchala are arch rivals with the rivalry spanning over generations. Durna has to involve in a face to face battle with Gandamana. Durna is totally defeated and one of his hands is fractured badly for life. His nose is broken, so he has a twisted nose forever.

Duryudana is not the legitimate heir of Hastinapura!!The Indonesian Mahabharata takes a clear stand on the question of legitimacy. The wayang puppeteers call him Prabu Kurupati.Gendari strongly influences Destarata and Sengkuni to coronate Duryodhana as king of Hastinapura. Despite their hatred for the Pandavas, Duryudana and his sister and brothers always ask help from the Pandavas in difficult time.Duryudana's misbehaviour against the Pandavas is encouraged by Sengkuni, Karna and Burisrawa and other ruling elite of Hastinapura. He has a special hatred for Arjuna because he knows that his wife, Banowati (Bhanumati, the daughter of Shalya) secretly loves Arjuna.There is no unfair warfare on Bima's part in his climactic battle with Duryodhana. Bhima challenges him in duel with bludgeon. The fight is terrific but within a short time Duryudana is in trouble. Without shame, he runs away and tries to hide somewhere to save his life. At last, he is assassinated by Bima.Dursasana too seeks help from Arjuna to marry princess Sartini from Srawantipura.

Resi Stunakarna helps Srikandi become a man. Her name changes to Bambang Kandihawa . As a man, he marries princess Durniti, the daughter of a giant king, Prabu Dike from the kingdom of Manimantaka. From this marriage, a son is born, by the name of Nirbita, who later-on, succeeds his grand-father as a king of Manimantaka. Nirbita's grandfather is none other than Prabu Niwatakawaca.She as a woman falls madly in love with Arjuna.😆Draupadi does not approve this. Shikhandi makes strategies which work. Once the Garden of Maerakaca , the palace garden in Pancala is badly damaged. Arjuna restores the garden, and is entitled to marry Srikandi.

Gatotkaca's other names are Jabang Tetuko, Purbaya and Satria Pringgadani.When Gatotkaca is born, his navel can not be cut with any knife. Upon advice from a wise man, the navel is cut by the casing of Kunto arrow, the heirloom Arjuna gets from Batara Guru. But the Kunto's casing goes inside the baby's navel permanently. The fate predicts that when the arrow Kunto returns to its casing then Gatotkaca should die.Gatotkaca becomes the new king of Pringgadani with full support of all his giant-uncles. Brajadenta and Brajamusti are his chief-warriors. Brajamusti is very loyal and caring to Gatotkaca. The youngest Uncle Kala Bendana is very kind-hearted and truthful.

Karna wants to learn Brahmasirah mantra from Drona, but Drona refuses out of affection for Arjuna and also realising Karna's foul intentions saying, only holy, renounced yogis may know this mantra'. Many years later, Karna hearing a rumour about the death of the Pandavas, throws a big party and promises the people to give anything they want. Then leaving his wife Sutikanti and their seven sons under the care of her father (Shalya), he travels to Mt. Mnidyuti, to Bagawan Pongkatiksna's holy dwelling. Once there, he meets his father, sang hyang Surya', who bestows him with Bajra Wijayacopa, a powerful energy weapon. He then travels to Mt. Mahendra to study with Begawan Ramaparasu, who because of Karna's obedience and skill teaches him all he knows, including Brahmasirah mantra. Parashurama's subsequent curse is similar to the Indian version.

Karna & Arjuna meet in the eve of Karna's first day as the Kaurava army's commander in chief. Arjuna secretly visits him. He has the most difficult moment in his life. Arjuna suddenly stands in front of him, kneels and greets him respectfully and says clearly, Please accept my sincere respects and Pandava's respect to you.'Karna is deeply moved. His eyes are filled with tears. Arjuna proposes to make him the emperor of Hastinapura and hopes that he will join them. They speak emotionally with each other and express love for each other.👏 Finally they decide to adhere by their Kshatriya duties and fight in next day's battle. Then they embrace each other again without a word and Arjuna leaves with Karna's permission.Next day after Karna kills Ghatothkacha with his Kunto-arrow; Karna's carriage is torn to pieces, hit by Ghatothkacha's body falling from the sky. He is thrown away. With no carriage he meets Arjuna directly. He is aware that Arjuna has several heirlooms, which should kill him. But he would be happy to be killed by a mighty, powerful brother. He is happy that his brothers would be glorious rulers in Hastinapur. Finally Arjuna releases his Pasupati arrow piercing Karna through the neck. In the Indian version Karna is beheaded. Karna's death is mourned deeply by both sides. The Pandava family performs Karna's funeral rites with full honour. In the Indian version this happens at the end of the war after Kunti reveals Karnas' identity to the Pandavas.

Krishna's name as a boy is Raden Narayana. He is the son of Basudewa with Dewi Badraini. He is the twin brother of Sembadra (Subhadra). Both of them have smooth black/dark colour of skin. He is tall with slender body and a good-looking face, brilliant and wise.😳After defeating King Yudakala Kresna of Dwarawati, Narayana becomes the king of the kingdom of Dwarawati and takes his official name - Prabu Kresna. He is the king of Dwarawati, the wisest man in the world. He is the incarnation of Wisnu.After killing Kangsha, they assume the sovereignty of Asitajana. From there they set out to conquer the whole of Jambudpa, starting with Ayojjh (whose king, Klasena, they take prisoner) and Dvravat, which they capture with the help of Kanhadpayana.They make Dvravat their capital and divide their kingdom into ten shares.

Balarama or Baladewa is the king of Madura. He is assisted by two loyal persons:Patih Pragota. His father is also a Patih (first minister of king Basudewa). He is big, tall, talks rudely, but is nice and loyal.Prabawa. He is Pragota's younger brother. He is assigned to handle the safety and security of the country.Baladewa has two powerful heirlooms - Nenggala, received during his meditation as a young hermit and Alugara, received from Batara Guru as a wedding present.His wife is Erawati, daughter of Shalya. Arjuna helps Balaram to get Erawati.😆 The name obviously is akin to Revati of the Indian version. It is one of the reasons why he loves Arjuna very much. He is a kind-hearted man, but is too temperamental. When he gets angry, only Arjuna can easily cool him down.😳 From Erawati, he has two adopted sons - Wisata (Nishadha) and Wimuka(Ulmuka). When he gets married, many gods escort him friendly (Bala). That is the origin of the name Baladewa. His name as a boy was Raden Kakrasana. He is tall with athletically body, his skin was light yellow.As a youth he lived with strong self-denial in the village of Widarakandang, so he is called Wasi Jaladara. He is called Basukiyana for being incarnation of god Basuki; Kusumawalikita (named by gods), Balarama (named by gods), and Alayuda, a name given by Narada.Baladewa does not involve in Baratayuda. Kresna asks him to meditate in the cave of Grojogan Sewu (one thousand waterfalls) before the war starts. Kresna presumes that Baladewa is too strong for Pendawa. When Baladawa completes his meditation, Baratayuda is already over.Until the end of his long life on earth, he becomes a protector of Parikesit, the new king of Hastinapura. Unlike Indian version Balarama does not die in Yadava civil war.That Balaram and Duryodhana are brothers-in-law having married each a daughter of Shalya may be one explanation of Balaram's special favouring for Duryodhana.

Shakuni is known as Sengkuni or Harya Sakuni. His name as a youth is Harya Suman. As a youth he attempts a Kunti-harana from the hands of Pandu. A fight breaks, but Shakuni loses to Pandu. As a punishment, Pandu buries his body, only his head appears above the land. Shakuni is frightened to die, and cries for forgiveness. He says that if he is freed from the punishment, he would give his sister to Pandu and he would serve him. Pandu agrees but he gives Gendari to his elder blind brother Destarata.Gendari feels insulted but cannot do anything. She feels jilted.Sengkuni follows his sister and lives in Hastinapura. Since the first day in Hastinapura, he eyes the position of Patih/Prime Minister. He is very jealous of Gandamana, the Patih to Hastinapura. He tries to find a way to oust Gandamana. Cunningly, he traps Gandamana to be ambushed by many giants. Gandamana falls down into a deep hole. Instead of helping Gandamana, Sengkuni buries him alive in the hole, Then Sengkuni reports hastily to king Pandu that Gandamana is killed by an army of giants.Gandamana, using his supernatural power, Bandung Bondowoso, comes out safely. He knows who has done it to him. Gandamana beats Shakuni severely until he loses his charm permanently. As a gentleman, Gandamana reports the case to king Pandu and admits his mistake for the merciless beating of Shakuni. King Pandu releases Gandamana from his position as Patih and he goes back to his country. Thus Shakuni succeeds in ousting him. After Pandu makes him Patih, he serves him, until Pandu's death.

By chance, Sengkuni has also invulnerability to sharp weapons. One day Sang Hyang Tunggal, the father of Betara Guru sends Lenga Tawa, oil with supernatural power to King Pandu. By rubbing the oil the body, the parts of the body should be invulnerable to sharp weapons. Pandu's death occurs at this time.

After King Pandu passes away Begawan Abiyasa (Vyasa), decides to the use the oil for his grand-children, witnessed by Hastinapura dignitaries, such as Kunti, Destarata and wife, Bisma, Sengkuni etc. Korawa, the elder grand children, gets their first turn. They make a queue starting from Duryudana and so on. But they can not put in order. They push one another. Some of the oil of Tawa, held by Abiyasa, spills out to the floor. Sengkuni quickly rolls his body on the floor. Kunti who is standing nearby Vyasa, falls down to the floor. Shakuni does not miss the chance to touch Kunti.😡Immediately, pretending to help Kunti, he grabs her breast. Kunti is shocked and ashamed.She vows that she would never wear breast-cloth, if not made from Shakuni' skin! That Shakuni molests Kunti is unique in Indonesian Mahabharata. Kunti's vow to avenge is akin to Draupadi's.

In Baratayuda, Sengkuni is executed by Bima. Bima knows very well, the weakest parts of Sengkuni's body are his mouth and his anus. Bima stabs deeply those parts with his kuku Pancanaka (long finger nails in his thumbs of both hands). He tears Sengkuni's mouth to pieces and then peels his skin fulfilling Kunti's wish. Sengkuni dies in agony.

Shalya

Indonesian version breathes more life to the character of Shalya. Shalya is portrayed as a great lover. He marries Bagaspati's (Brihaspati) daughter Devi Pujawati against his father's wishes. Wonder of wonder this man is monogamous. Salya makes a vow to Setyawati never to take another wife. This does not prevent him, however, to go to Draupadi's swamvara. He kills his own father-in-law. Since Brihaspati is the symbol of Vedic wisdom, Shalya's killing Brihaspati may actually mean his deviation from the brand of Vedic Brahmanism as prevalent in Kuru-Panchala. In this light we may understand the significance of Karna-Shalya dialogue in the Indian version in which Karna makes harsh derogatory remarks against the Madrakas.

Shalya has 5 children:

1) Dewi Erawati. She marries Baladewa, the king of Mandura.

2) Dewi Surtikanti, marries with Karna. They have two children: Warsakusuma and Warsasena. Surtikanti's love to Arjuna is turned down. She marries Karna, the half brother of Arjuna, because Karna looks like Arjuna.😕

3) Dewi Banowati, marries king Duryudana. They have two children: Leksmana Mandrakumara and Leksmanawati. The attractive princess Banowati is in fact deeply in love with Arjuna. Duryudana is mad in love with Banowati. Banowati always chases Arjuna to make a backstreet love. Arjuna asks Banowati if she really loves him, she has to marry Duryudana. The two re-unite after Duryodhana's death.

4) Raden Rukmarata. He is killed by Seta in Bharatayuddha.

5) Raden Burisrawa. He is an impolite and arrogant giant. Since Salya hated his own father-in-law, Burisrawa is born to him as punishment. In Bharatayuddha, he is killed by his arch-rival Setyaki. In the Indian version Bhurishrava is Somdatta's son and Bahlika's grandson, and consequently a Puru-vamshi. Burisrawa is madly in love with Subadra, the wife of Arjuna. Once, he abducts Subhadra from Madukara, Arjuna's palace. Luckily Antareja and Gatotkaca, the sons of Bima save her.

The kings of Mandura Kingdom (Where Balaram becomes king) are descendants of the king of Ayoddha. Prabu Basuketi was the son of Prabu Rama Batlawa, a king of Ayoddha, the son of Rama and Sinta.

The Indonesian version in fact, abounds in knotty relations which give us insight into the motives of different characters. They are often unthought-of love-desire affairs like - Amba loves Bhisma, Bhisma loves Amba, Gandhari loves Pandu, Shakuni loves Kunti, Bhanumati loves Arjuna, Surtikanti loves Arjuna, Bhurishrava loves Subhadra, Arjuna loves Anggraini, and Kichaka loves Draupadi. All these love-desires remain unfulfilled.

In the Indonesian version of the Rajasuya Yajna there is a pre-requisite that it must be attended at least by one hundred kings'. When Yudhishthira decides to perform one, Jarasandha too contemplates the same. He decides to celebrate it by force. He captures around seventy kings from these neighboring countries, and imprisons them. Now comes the twist! The Pandava army attack Magadha, kill Jarasandha and liberate the seventy kings. Thus the Indonesian version totally rules out a Bhima-Arjuna-Krishna adventure and Bhima-Jarasandha duel. On that victorious day, Amarta kingdom celebrates Rajasuya. Sisupala starts to insult Krishna. Krishna has promised Sishupala's mother that he would not hurt Sishupala till he insults Krishna in front of one hundred persons.😕😆Now that Sishupala does so, Krishna slays him in a duel. In the Indian version, Krishna simply beheads Sishupala with his Chakra, though there is one reference of an actual battle in Dhritarshtra's speech.

Some other interesting variations are that though the dice game is there, and also revocation of Yudhishthira's losses by Dhritarashtra, there is no second dice game. The Pandavas have to go to exile as an alternative. Aswatama and Kartamarma are killed shortly after Baratayuda.

You can find the complete article here - http://sobokartti.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/variations-in-indonesian-mahabharata/

Originally posted by: wayward

Hey, looooong post, it took approx 1 hour for me to write this answer as I don't know much about him, that's why maine socha ki iss reply ko sabse last mei post karungi.

Wow, Seemanti di would've loved to be part of this convo!

oh yes, I have read her posts, she is so much in love with Yudhishthir that I would have not even asked about Yudi from her, its not because I am scared of debates or something but I don't like to hurt people and I have seen her love for Yudi, on top of that she has so much knowledge about the Mahabharat that someone will start respecting her knowledge automatically, I only like to argue with karn fans and no one else, actually I agree with her in every thing but Yudi is beyond my understanding, its not that I hate him, hate would be a big thing to say, but I don't know why when people say that he was a Dharam raj then I start doubting him, if you call him a human then I can understand, but then Dharam raj ne itne logon ke saath kya kya hone diya and that to his own people suffered so much because of his actions makes me frustrated, there must be a reason for his action and I want to know those reasons only.

given Yudi isn't my expertise.

He isn't my expertise either, Seemanti didi ki language mei bole toh I am a kalyugi and I am unable to understand him hehehehe, I have seen her saying this on Dharamkshetra thread.

Whatever he did, if you go by the law-books only, then Yudi wasn't technically wrong.

See, that's my point, Dharamraj means kya, the one who does justice with everyone and we all know that how and what happened with Draupadi in that dice game, plus which shastra tells that once you loose the game then you have the write to stake someone else? He knew that it is nowhere permitted but still he chose to do this.

Which is also why Draupadi's questions during the dice game were so important.

Same thing was said by draupadi and Same thing Arjun pointed out but he said that as if he was questioning everyone, however, I am not able to find that quote right now. But the point is ki according to me Yudi chose to ignore few things from the Vedas and kept few according to his own wish/choice, In the traditional Vedic wedding ceremony the culmination is the taking of seven steps (sapta-padi) - the seventh step is taken for FRIENDSHIP. (sakhā-sapta-pada bhava!), so can you stake your friend? is your friend your property?

See this is the blessing given to a married women at the time of her marriage

Rise over conflicts and calamities, exceed your husband (if we go by the the Sanskrit text literally - climb on your husband’s head!), and your children in dignity and pride and be you famous. (ApMB. 1.6.5)

Be an empress over your father-in-law, an empress over your mother-in-law, be an empress over your husband's sisters, and an empress over his brothers too. (RV.10.85.46)

So this women is a man's property is definitely a result of a patriarch khurafati head, since Yudi followed Vedas and Shastras and all he must be knowing all this, then what made him believe that Draupadi could be staked? and yes, how can we forget that before this dice game Draupadi was managing the finance and so many things in the kingdom, who would have given her the permission? definitely Yudi because I don't think without his permission anything could have happened, if he gave permission then either Draupadi would have argued or Yudi knew that our Vedas and Shastras give great importance to women, hence he permitted, so how he could simply stake Draupadi? ye paap nahi tha unke according?

If we say that he loved her that's why staked her won't help as loving someone does not fix your autonomy on him/her, if he loved her then why he staked her, just because shakuni said ki you will be freed if you stake Draupadi or said something like that, then he staked Draupadi thinking that he will be freed (it was only his thought naa if I am not wrong?), see duryodhan is considered an evil person, in fact he knew that shakuni will win as Yudi does not know how to play dice, or he knew that shakuni was cheeting, still he did not stake his wife (unlike shown in starplus), then why he did that?

Actually after reading few portions I am really not sure what were his intentions, I think vo pura game mei ghus gae the, I don't know whether Yudi use to drink or not that's why I cannot say anything otherwise my guess would have been that he was probably drunk.

See this, just read the words how he describes her.

king Yudhishtira even described how little hair she had on her body.

‘Yudhishthira replied, “She is neither too short, nor too tall. She is neither too dark, nor toored. Her eyes are red with love and I will play with you for her. Her eyes are like the petals oflotuses in the autumn. Her fragrance is like that of lotuses in the autumn. Her beauty servesthat of lotuses in the autumn. Her beauty is like that of Shri herself. Such is her lack ofcruelty, her wealth of beauty and the goodness of her conduct, that every man desires her fora wife. She retires to bed last and she is the first one to wake up. She looks after the cowherdsand the shepherds. She knows everything about what should be done and what should not bedone. When covered with sweat, her face looks like a lotus or a jasmine. Her waist is shapedlike an altar. Her hair is long. Her eyes are copper-red. She does not have too much of bodyhair. O king! O Soubala! I will make the beautiful Droupadi of Panchala, slender of waist, mystake. Let us play.”’

OK, for a sec we consider the fact that he just wanted to show ki how great she was and how much qualified she was in all the aspects, but utne par hi ruke kyun nahi? I mean was it necessary to describe her small body hairs and her waist? utna deep mei jane ki kya zaroorat thi? On top of that, as we all know that he was a king at that time, it means he that he must be knowing what to say and how much to say, so is it not possible that he was somewhat aware that if he looses Draupadi what would be the probable consequences? Is it not possible that he just was thinking that he would somehow win Draupadi even after loosing everything?

Again, it was despicable, but legal. If you ask why Yudi deserved the throne

Yes, gambling would have been legal I don't know, but was staking one's own wife also legal? Like I am not sure about this that's why I am asking. I am not saying that whether he deserved the thrown or not, of course if you compare between Yudi and duri then definitely Yudi was better, in fact he was the perfect person for the thrown at that time, but my question is that whether he was all perfect and an idol of justice as they say.

Moreover jab ek baar haar gae, jab khud ki wife ke saath itna sab kuch hogaya toh who told him to go back again and play there, OK I understood your point that there was a political pressure, but it could have been justified once, after what happened with panchali even if he would have refused to play no one would have said anything, now it was not just about the game, it was about Panchali who was humiliated, in fact people would have sympathized with them.

Everyone told him to not go, OK I agree that he followed his Dharm and went their, he even played there but there was no political pressure to stake his wife, there was no political pressure to stake his brothers, playing was necessary, but chalo even when he staked his own brother and then lost himself then toh political pressure kaa question hi khatam, he could not stake anything else. I agree that initial intention was not wrong but may be he was addicted for gambling and jo bhi log adicted hote hain if we observe their behavior then even if they have one chance to win then also they don't let go of that chance, that's why when shakuni gave that chance to yudi he could not let go off his addiction, unko laga hoga ki may be iss baar jeet gaya toh accha hoga something like that (again I am not sure, matlab mujhe kaise pata hoga ki vo kya soch rahe honge, I am just guessing)

He learnt to play dice properly.

What, I did not know this, btw yes, we can say this as he was kank naa lekin wait kyun kyun kyun, aur dice khelna kyun seekhna tha

Also, they weren't alone there, they had a whole baraat-sized entourage of servants

What, then with all the servants and all what kind of penance he was doing there, sorry but except Draupadi no one present there deserved any servant and all, not even Arjun who is my fav pandav, whether he protested or not is a different question (south Indian version mei toh his eyes were red as fire aur bohot kuch tha and North mei he just questioned) but considering what happened in that hall whether you protested or not is the secondary thing because someone else was able to touch your wife.

Not everyone has to be a big, splashy warrior right

OK I get that as well, but why he just kept on demanding things from his brother even in exile, jaise jaise war kaa time paass aata he demanded weapons, even if we leave that then what was that on 16-17th day? jab khud lad nahi pae toh dusre ko bash karne lage, that's wrong naa?

Arjun is not blameless here though, when the question came, he went basically, "Yudi isn't married so I won't marry also?"

I agree that he is not blameless, but what if he meant that OK we will wait for some time first let's get you married then me and Panchali will marry, again my interpretation, I don't know that he just participated for the contest, I think he participated for marrying, again I am not a ardi fan, but still, I think he knew that what's coming if he wins, but he never expected that his mother will say ki sab baant lo, usne toh mazak kiya tha, jo ki bohot bhari pad gaya.

vaise bhi I think ki agar people would have known ki ye pandav hain toh any girl would have married Yudi.

Another thing that I can think is that who knows that Arjun would have expected that since Bhim was married before Yudi so even he will get permission from Yudi even if he says like this, he would have thought ki since his brother loved him and he was Dharam raj as well, toh uske bhai keliye alag rule aur uske liye alag rule thodi naa hoga, rakshas or non-rakshas, but the fact was that Bhim got married first.

Basically he would have expected a solution from his elder father figure like brother, not that all will marry Arjun's would be wife.

Like its quite natural to think that your brother will provide a solution since he knows everything about Ved and Shastra, so according to Arjun Yudi probably must be knowing ki iss situation mei what can be done and I am sure that sharing your younger brother's betrothed (or non-betrothed women I don't know) women would not have been a first solution written in any Ved or Shastra or Shruti or or in any texts.

and I toh sometimes think ki if someone says something by mistake then taking there words so seriously aaisa bhi kahin nahi likha hoga, I think its all made up by either Yudi and Kunti or only Yudi.

ye toh aaisa hogaya jaise someone goes to the Supreme court and says that what to do as my mom by mistake told my wife to be shared, please judge sahab find a solution, you are waiting for the judgment and all of a sudden the judge says ki, chalo everyone marry her, me included, 5 minutes toh insaan sochta hi rahega ki what this just said.

There could be 3 possibilities

1st: everyone were fine including Draupadi and no one objected as it is said that Draupadi was sleeping aaramse in that hut.

This is believable but two times Arjun hints at his dissatisfaction, in the keechak wala incident when Draupadi said something to Arjun then Arjun said something like "I live with you and you live with us"

and Yudi and Arjun wala argument toh I have quoted above look at the second para.

2nd possibility: jinko initially shaadi karni thi, they were not happy with this sharing thing rest all were happy as they wanted to get marry with the most beautiful women.

3rd possibility: Even after getting married to all 5 Draupadi had something for Arjun, even not love then also may be special bonding or something and Arjun tried to avoid that as much as possible ki kahin koi badi problem naa hojae family mei.

Now why I am saying this, in Swargarohan Parva when Draupadi falls down then Yudi says ki since she loved Arjun the most therefore she fell down. I think he would have noticed something between Draupadi or simply in Draupadi's behavior, so he would have said so, or it is also possible ki he would have just seen one incident and based his entire narrative on that single incident.

Again I am sorry but I think this entire prediction of Yudi ki who is falling why was just his own thinking and not the actual reason, just because you love someone more so you cannot go to heaven, if we look at this way then toh Krishna ko toh heaven ke aas paas bhi nahi hona tha jitna openly he has expressed his love for Arjun and if we believe that it was the love only and not any political benefit then, he toh is a God naa so how can he favor someone more, therefore naa, I cannot believe ki this is possible.

Again I am sorry but if we look at the text then practically he was the only person who saw the hell, all others were already in the heaven right? as Told to Yudi by someone (I don't know who was that), correct me if I am wrong, in fact Arjun toh was with Krishna.

Yeh khali-pili ki heropanti thi bas aur kuch nahi. smiley36

vahi toh mai bol rahi hoon, who told him to go to the battle field and fight with Karn, when people are protecting you so aaram se stay in the protection naa, why to go and cause trouble for yourself and others, even when satyaki was protecting as Arjun told him to do so, then something happened to I don't know Arjun or someone then he sent Satyaki and then Karn or someone attacked on Yudi as he was alone, kya zaroorat thi, jab Arjun akele rehte the tab kaun unko protect karta hoga, bolo ab pad gae naa khud problem mei, I think then Bhim had to go for his protection and then Bhim fought with Karn, jab pata hai ki people are constantly after Bhim and Arjun toh aaram se rahiye, aapko protection ki zyada zaroorat hai as if you will be captured then there is no point of this war for pandavs.

and after doing all that when he lost toh he just started abusing his own brother.

And Arjun+Mace fight not very much.

That's why I am saying, why Yudi told duri ki you can fight with anyone among 5 of us and that too he said ki weapon bhi tumhari choice kaa hoga, obviously he would have chosen mace only and just imagine if he would have chosen any other person like Yudi, Arjun or Nakul and Sahdev then what would have happened?

hello everyone

Shubh VijayaDashami

Happy Dussehra

Again I don't know why I am not able to tag anyone.

@wayward

I think you have read Arunita didi kaa stories, does she still rights?

btw how was your Dussehra?