Imlie Chat Club # 11, DT Reminder Note pg 55 - Page 101

Originally posted by: nasima1234

I know a lot of ppl compare maan to aryan

But the point for me is , maan never grew as a character , just how was introduced in the first scene , he remained the same through out -he fell in love - he got married

People compare Aryan and arnav cause , the more screen space aryan got - the more we got to his character- layers - trauma - total softie inside

This i agree with...

There was no character graph with maan except falling in love phase...

He was mostly the knight in shining armour for the damsel in distress...

It was through and through geet's story

Originally posted by: ramusk

I meant comparison part of msk n now asr.....

Msk never made me feel toxic atleast till where I saw n know

Yes exactly he was never toxic...

And not is Aryan that's why the comparison...

The point of difference however is msk was too white except anger issues maybe and a failed relationship family problems didn't bother him much even if he had them...

Aryan is more intense, all his emotions are extreme and more importantly he's in the greyer side than maan atleast

Originally posted by: _AmyChoco_

Just a brief shift to the CC..

I hated the Jhulan Goswami trailer. The fact that they had to actually darken Anu...and it doesn't stop there, she even got the accent all wrong. I was under the impression that she did a shoddy job at the Gujju accent but then got to know she was attempting Bengali 😆. I do not claim to know what's rhe real Gujju/ Bengali accents..but I know she went horribly wrong with it. Plus why did she look stiff..I mean her facial expressions were bland. In the Bollywood forum, many speculated that it could be from the excessive fillers. How she performs in the movie remains to be seen! But I won't be watching it.

She is receiving more flak than needed. Their careers are exclusive..and yet both of them enjoy benefits. Why was she selected and not someone better? Dunno..Is she the producer? Maybe as you suggested, since it is cricket, she got interested. Virat can/will help her out for the training. But acting..she is alone 😆I wish she really had not taken this up..

This is Netflix we are talking about..so the reason that she was selected for star power doesn't make sense..

As a Bengali I visibly cringed when I heard the accent and saw the skin tone, pointing to what Deltablues said as well -

[why the need for brownfacing? And even if we excuse that, why the lack of homework?

Women atheletes get paid peanuts compared to male players. Especially in cricket. It just feels to cheap to make money off of one of the greatest bowlers in the world who happens to be dark-skinned and hails from an underprivileged background without doing due diligence.

I mean Sushant did not darken his skin to enact Dhoni.]

I don't get it. Even with Ranveer Singh and Kapil Dev - they focused way too much in makeup and hair that I feared if I touched his hand a cake of bronzer would land on it.

But yeah, especially for female biopics I'm seeing this trend of forcing an actor into the look of character that ends up in unsatisfactory product. The best sports biopic for my was Bhaag Milkha Bhaag.

I wish they took pages from that. And seriously, there are more than a handful capable Bengali actors in the Hindi and Bengali film and tv industry alone who could've played the great JG *shrug*

Netflix clearly has the money and attraction to pull people in a film even without star power.

Originally posted by: IPodcastKKND

As a Bengali I visibly cringed when I heard the accent and saw the skin tone, pointing to what Deltablues said as well -

[why the need for brownfacing? And even if we excuse that, why the lack of homework?

Women atheletes get paid peanuts compared to male players. Especially in cricket. It just feels to cheap to make money off of one of the greatest bowlers in the world who happens to be dark-skinned and hails from an underprivileged background without doing due diligence.

I mean Sushant did not darken his skin to enact Dhoni.]

I don't get it. Even with Ranveer Singh and Kapil Dev - they focused way too much in makeup and hair that I feared if I touched his hand a cake of bronzer would land on it.

But yeah, especially for female biopics I'm seeing this trend of forcing an actor into the look of character that ends up in unsatisfactory product. The best sports biopic for my was Bhaag Milkha Bhaag.

I wish they took pages from that. And seriously, there are more than a handful capable Bengali actors in the Hindi and Bengali film and tv industry alone who could've played the great JG *shrug*

Netflix clearly has the money and attraction to pull people in a film even without star power.

Ranveer and bronzer is such a traumatizing experience à la Gully Boy. Why the fu-k people like the movie is beyond me.

And, omg, Bhaag Milkha Bhaag was such a pristine film especially for the climate in which it was made. ♥️

I hope Jhulan makes shitloads of money from Netflix because that film will be a guaranteed brain death.

I wonder if you have seen Iqbal with Shreyas Talpade?

Originally posted by: _AmyChoco_

I never even knew of IPKKND.lol.. Just to fine tune my understanding..When you say Arnav was an antihero, it means his actions were lacking in the morality department..and at times, it was deplorable. So, how didn't it receive flak back then? How was it easily acceptable by the audience? I mean..I am looking at the current heroes, the minute they eff up..I mean the moment they don't act according to what's acceptable to us, we are voicing our displeasure. Look at how Aryan is criticized.

Was Khushi & Arnav in a toxic relationship? Did it end well for both of them?

Edited: I get how apparent notions of romance makes many gloss over the obvious flaws. I mean..if you were on TT and looked at the hashtag , you would note many pro-Aryan sympathy posts. The wirdings are problematic..Standing close to each other isn't hot (in all situations)..Many are still focused on the physical aspects instead of the morality.. So I am guessing Barun's good looks & acting made all go gaga?

Hey!

Ok quick IPK rundown -

Arnav is an antihero because he had several traits that define him as an antihero; complex character, cynical, defy laws and standard morals, good intentions, identifiable imperfections, realist, internal struggle.

He's called an antihero because he is the protagonist of a story, but he lacks the virtues and estimable traits of a traditional hero.

Arnav and Khushi meet under horrible circumstances - he thought she was a corporate spy/stalker (because she literally appeared everywhere he was) and she thought he was an immoral atheist who'd go to any extent for his ego.

They were both immediately right and wrong about each other (Arnav is an atheist with a big ego and Khushi did appear everywhere Arnav was) and it's this miscommunication that sets the tone of the relationship and the love the blossoms despite of it.

The reason why IPK was acceptable and not difficult to digest is that they never said it was going to be a perfect love story, there was always an element of tragedy and star crossed love and Arnav's reasonings made sense. Even in the worst scenes you were convinced that that's how Arnav would react. As they say first impression is the last impression - the disastrous first impressions left a lasting impact on what he assumed she was.

Also Arnav has a lot of trauma from his childhood with regards to relationships, commitment, marriage and longevity of relationships. His parents committed double suicide when his mother found out about his father's extra marital affair and Arnav watched them die. His PTSD was handled well - he has nightmares even after Khushi entered his life.

Arnav and Khushi's first marriage was a tragedy - great angst tbh, and yes since then the writing quality saw a sharp drop, so did the plots, and the relationship was rather toxic until the remarriage phase - that was rather sweet. I attribute it to bad writing because a lot of plot points had no payoff and important side characters were written out.

The last two tracks were badly written so I don't consider it canon, lol, but yes they did end up in a happily ever after and for majority of the show - it was a good, angsty drama that was well done :)

-- -- --

Back to Imlie -

Regarding Aryan I am very interested in him and voicing my displeasure about his current actions because I didn't think he was capable of doing something like this. He's rarely compulsive and more in control of his emotions and situations. So it's shocking that this track came in. The forced marriage itself looks a little forced - lol.

Also the stakes on Imlie aren't working. It's her ex husband's career and sanity of her sasuraal and I'm like eeeehhhh...

Overall I feel this track isn't working as well as it should've. I loved Aryan losing his control post hospitalization and beating up Aditya because I did feel Aryan bottled his anger and vengeance against Adi and this is the first time we saw his emotions and motivations on a center stage.

We saw Aryan's flaws and that was great. But all of this leading a religiously valid marriage after he traded with Imlie that it wasn't going to be one isn't adding up at all.

I feel I'm missing something when I see the current track cause I like him otherwise. And to be honest I do feel him not wanting to loose Imlie is more than his altruistic motivation of giving her a better life. I think he believes he can give her best opportunities.

His tough love to help Imlie worked in the earlier part of the relationship, cause there was no trust and they were clashing in ideals and this was the easiest way to get through to Imlie. However, in the current circumstances Imlie was at the point where she'd do anything for Aryan regardless, the trust, compassion and flicker of love (from her side, Aryan toh bohot pehle se out ho gaya tha 🤣) is not the space that justifies this forced marriage.

My high point of the show was Imlie crying in happiness on seeing him recover and then squeeze his cheek and Aryan hiding the payal saying he wears it *lol*

Originally posted by: Deltablues

Ranveer and bronzer is such a traumatizing experience à la Gully Boy. Why the fu-k people like the movie is beyond me.

And, omg, Bhaag Milkha Bhaag was such a pristine film especially for the climate in which it was made. ♥️

I hope Jhulan makes shitloads of money from Netflix because that film will be a guaranteed brain death.

I wonder if you have seen Iqbal with Shreyas Talpade?

Gully Boy was good BUT Muraad and Saqeena were toxic AF. It's the side characters who ran the film I swear, and had a very compelling universe. I don't mind toxic characters and relationships as long as its recognized as that. People not realizing that about the leads had me *cringe* Also the fact that Alia Bhatt got best actress ... Gangubai deserves every award that exists on a planet. Not Gully Boy. I felt they awarded and went ga-ga over a film that wasn't "mainstream" despite having "mainstream" actors and producers? God knows. I'm like itna kya tareef karna?

Chak De, Iqbal, BMB - best sports films in India.

Mary Kom, MSD, Dangal - good sports films that had some problematic linings but you could overcome them because the film had its own stellar moments that conveyed important conversations.

83, Gold - pata nahi. Could've been great if the dramatization was less.

I only hope Jhulan to do well regardless of anything cause I want everyone to know her name. I'll bear that Godforsaken accent only and only for Jhulan's accent to come out. Like you couldn't find anyone who could speak Bangla? *sigh*

You pointing out the climate in BMB *chefs kiss*

Iqbal ne rula diya yaar.

Originally posted by: Deltablues

I think, what people forget is Arnav was always, and I mean always, written to be the antihero. He was never supposed to be an ideal partner. He was supposed to be deplorable and attractive at the same time. He was supposed to eff up our emotions, perceptions, and judgements. And he did that.

The problem with the cult following it triggered was that IPK, in many ways, was the first adult love story on itv and this aspect of the writing got shrouded by the novelty. I think, as someone who started watching ITV as an adult in the pandemic, I effing loved how well-written an antihero is Arnav. Plus, Barun, man!

Now, Aryan was always written as a guardian angel-knight-in-shining-armour hero— he was replacing the milquetoast hero who saw the world in black-and-white, after all— with enough character flaws that you question his intentions every once in a while, as and when the TRP lords demand. To decide who is a better character between the two ASRs is to decide the parameters first. Honestly, Fahmaan, man.

I don't think they are per se undoing Aru's feminist tag atm. I don't think Aru is being written out of character as of yet. It's his unresolved trauma and guilt spilling all over the place. The only toxic trait in Aryan truly is his don't-dwell-on-your-emotions- work- till-you-drop spiel. And that comes back to bite your ass sooner or later. Is Aru failing miserably at being a feminist ally rn? Yes, absolutely. But being a feminist (ally) is not a graduation. It's a lifelong process of learning and unlearning. Aryan falters sometimes as we all do. But Aryan also recognises his regressions and rectifies almost immediately

Aryan would be written out of character, for me, if had no introspection about him effing up or if they go the Arshi way with him making no amends, and Imlie not fighting back.

I think every fandom has two sides. One that critically engages with media and the other that accept the actions of the leads regardless.

The thing that makes Aryan and Arnav interesting is when you critically engage with them, you can understand what their doing and find grounds for what's happening. One does not need the character to be doing the right things to be understood/interesting. Also they're both such finely written characters and also acted by such great actors.

Arnav is the perfect antihero - I always feel writing failed him as a character in the second half of the show. It should've worked further on unraveling the plots that were put out, rather they went with weird comedy and never addressed the elephant in the room. And they wrote Khushi so out of character that it ruined a lot of things.

I sincerely hope with Aryan they show a good payoff to this marriage. It's what his character needs. I don't want the writing to fail him or Imlie. I do think Imlie needs to start growing up - but in a better way - and highlight the trauma she's been facing through multiple events in her life. And I sincerely hope we get to see more of what Aryan's doing. I am hoping he learns and unlearns from this event!

Fahmaan, I swear he's a discovery to me - he has a good long career ahead.

Barun ki ab main kya baat karun? *cue sharmaana break*

Originally posted by: _AmyChoco_

My bad..I was under the impression that an anti hero was a person whose actions are not ethically acceptable. I stand corrected. Shivaay..that scene still haunts me..I loved the cinematography in that scene.. the way he said 'Boom' & then Annika breaking down. His actions made no sense. The second forced marriage in IB2 was more disturbing to watch. Fun fact: Naakul said that the writer was disturbed by how it played out on screen that she couldn't write or couldn't connect with the character for a while.

Nakul and Barun have often commented on their characters being far from ideal. Sanaya literally said that the only thing to love in Arnav was Barun *lol*

Man IB was a rollercoaster. I feel sad for the writers I swear. Sometimes they're pressured by channel or producers to write in certain things and...

I can't watch any of Shivaay's forced marriages - it has an air of sexual assault (the first one) *visible shivers*

Originally posted by: Deltablues

Arnav was amoral many times: I mean, just unleashing all your anger on your contractual wife without any communication is amoral and abusive to me. But, he wasn't exactly a malicious criminal. Shivay could be that if he wanted to.

Anyhow, Nox himself talked about how he couldn't just be okay with many things Shivay did. Which is correct.

Even Barun has talked about Arnav's toxic traits in not so many words.

I think that's a good distinction between Arnav and Shivaay. A lot of Shivaay's hatred for Annika came from internalized patriarchy and elitism. Nothing else. Which was... problematic. And Shivaay did a lot of things untriggered - which points to his maliciousness.

Lol I laughed when Barun went "what's to love in Arnav? It's Khushi - she's nice, happy, jovial."

Originally posted by: IPodcastKKND

Gully Boy was good BUT Muraad and Saqeena were toxic AF. It's the side characters who ran the film I swear, and had a very compelling universe. I don't mind toxic characters and relationships as long as its recognized as that. People not realizing that about the leads had me *cringe* Also the fact that Alia Bhatt got best actress ... Gangubai deserves every award that exists on a planet. Not Gully Boy. I felt they awarded and went ga-ga over a film that wasn't "mainstream" despite having "mainstream" actors and producers? God knows. I'm like itna kya tareef karna?

Chak De, Iqbal, BMB - best sports films in India.

Mary Kom, MSD, Dangal - good sports films that had some problematic linings but you could overcome them because the film had its own stellar moments that conveyed important conversations.

83, Gold - pata nahi. Could've been great if the dramatization was less.

I only hope Jhulan to do well regardless of anything cause I want everyone to know her name. I'll bear that Godforsaken accent only and only for Jhulan's accent to come out. Like you couldn't find anyone who could speak Bangla? *sigh*

You pointing out the climate in BMB *chefs kiss*

Iqbal ne rula diya yaar.

I have general problems with how rap was b-stardized in Gully Boy. How it was turned into a neolibral shtick to get out of the ghettoized space instead of being a genre of protest, which it is.

Like, yes, money and materialism are important motifs in rap because those are the things systematically denied to gentrified and marginalised black communities in the west and minority communities in India. It's not a supposed message to outgrow the ghettoisation but to dismantle the system.

Like, Kalki's character saying that Murad's socioeconomic background doesn't matter because he is an a r t i s t. Behen, artist kya aliens hote hain? You wouldn't fuccck him if he weren't an artist but now his gareebi is cool because he can rap? Wtf does that mean?

Also, like, not a word on the caste-divides within Dharavi. Interesting.

Sorry, I hate that film.

Also like Ranveer Singh rapping about undue wealth accumulation. 😳