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NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#21

Originally posted by: .Vrish.



Actually, it was Bhima who made the vow that Arjun would kill Karna and Sahadev would kill Shakuni. Therefore, they had to fulfill it, since he was their elder. While Karna may have been unmatched by the other Pandavas (aside from Bhima), Shakuni could have been slain by any of Draupadi's kids as well: it didn't have to be Sahadev.


Yeah, Bhima made that oath, but anyone could have killed the Dhartarashtras. For instance, Dhrishtadymna, who lost every one of his battles against Drona, Kripa, Ashwatthama and Karna, easily defeated Duryodhan on day 18 and forced him to flee from the battlefield. If he could do that, he could have killed any number of Kauravas.


On the Chakravyuha penetration, it required a skill that only 4 warriors had - Arjun, Krishna, Pradhyumna and Abhimanyu. But just b'cos Arjun had a certain skill that Bhima didn't didn't make him an all-round superior to Bhima. Also, Jayadrath had a specific boon from Shiva that he'd defeat 4 of the Pandavas on a given day, but not Arjun. That wasn't due to Arjun's superiority: it's b'cos Shiva had already given Arjun the Pasupathastra, so he couldn't bless someone else that Arjun would be defeated.


Remember, on day 14, Arjun lost a lot of time fighting Drona, and ultimately, Krishna persuaded him to just bypass him w/o necessarily subduing him. Yudhisthir later sent Satyaki, and then Bhima to find out whether Arjun was safe. When Bhima fought Drona, he broke 100 of his chariots before passing him, which Arjun either couldn't or didn't.

I know Bhima made that vow that's why he killed 100 Kauravas, does this mean none of the brothers or warriors in Pandava's side were able to kill even 1 Kauravas? I think they left them for Bhima to fulfill his vow


Skills people acquire by hard work makes them superior, Arjun worked hard to get weapons and train himself, Arjun's absence from Kurukshetra had landed them on back foot, Duryodhana would have won on that day itself, if not for Arjun's son


Shiva gave Arjun the boon, If you know this then don't you know how Arjun acquired it? He defeated and satisfied Lord Shiva 🙃


Didn't Arjun vow to kill Jayadratha before sunset or he will kill himself? On 14th day, there was a 3 layered formation to stop Arjun from reaching Jayadratha, There was 48 miles long Vyuh with 20 Mile diameter chakravyuh of Kaurava warriors for Arjun, which was led by Dronacharya, Everyone in Kaurava army was protecting Jayadratha to make sure Arjun kills himself, I don't understand why would they focus on an inconsequential part of Pandavas. Jayadratha wasn't in this Chakravyuh, he was being protected by Karna and Aawatthama along with more than 100k knights, 60k chariots, 14k elephant warriors, 20k foot soldiers, Arjun broke all layers efficiently to reach Jayadratha


The aim was to kill Jayadratha before Sunset, Arjun and Drona were in a never ending battle which would have led to sunset and Arjun killing himself, Therefore Krushna advised him to not waste time here and look for Jayadratha. Both Drona and Arjun killed thousands of men in chariot, elephants etc, Arjun would have been killed by Drona, if he didn't take down his support army on chariots, elephants, He was able to move ahead by destroying the layers of Vyuh only, But, Arjun couldn't kill Drona as long as he had a weapon in his hands.


In fact, Drona was so rattled he started killing normal soldiers with celestial weapons, which as against rule of war and they decided to kill Drona on Day 15


Arjun alone killed 7 Akshauhini force of Kauravas on 14th day


One more thing, Arjun had left Yudhishtira with Satyaki that day saying Satyaki has to protect Yudhishtira so he can fight battle without having to worry about protecting their King, There was a time when Dronacharya had almost captured Yudhishtira but Sahdev took him away, that's what happens in Arjun's absence.


Arjun had killed many key players on day 14, Arjun had defeated Duryodhana breaking his chariot and weapons, but Arjun didn't kill him, he could have easily done it but Bheema had vowed to kill Duryodhana. Similarly, Bheema did not kill Karn because it was Arjun's vow to kill him

One could imagine, how many warriors would be there to protect their King because Duryodhana's death means losing the war, Arjun had killed and evaded all the warriors who were defending Duryodhana.

Arjun was battling Karna, Salya, Vrihasena alone at one point Duryodhana had made sure none of the Pandavas reach Arjuna but Bheema and Satyaki get there, In the end defeating everyone in their purpose Arjun killed Jayadratha.


14th day of war shows how important Arjun was In the war of Kurukshetra, They couldn't defeat him so they did everything in their power to hide a man to make sure Arjun kills himself. Drona realizes this and he was focused on capturing Yudhishtira in Arjun's absence.


If one side in the war thinks that one person's absence can make the difference in result of the battle, tells to story of importance of that person. One side put all of their to make sure they hide one warrior so Arjun kills himself, You see all of the attacked him together, it wasn't to kill him, they didn't think killing him in battlefield was a possibility, that's how important was Arjun in war of Kurukshetra

Edited by NoraSM - 5 years ago
NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#22

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

Bheem ofcourse.

Bheen has always been his family s defender whether its kauravas , hidimba , Bakasur or keechak. Who killed all of them bheem did


Who understood that war means either to kill or get killed - bhim arjuna on the other always needed krishna to keep telling him to fight and fight. Plus onl warrior he killed in the war was karna

Shinkandin gets more credit for bhism

And drona s death was combined effort of krishna yudhishtra drishtdyum and ofcourse bheem.

And then the main one the crown prince whose death sealed the fate of the war - duryodhan. had duryodhan picked arjuna over bheema for mace fight pandavas would have never won. Arjuna would have been long dead. Ofcourse duryodhan was a better mace fighter than bheema and it took treachery on bheema s part to give him the final blow but still if any of the pandava had it in them to challenge duryodhan it was bheem.


The war would have been impossible had not been for bheem.


Other people who i would say are not much appreciated are drishtdyum not much of a warrior but he did helped pandavas side a lot with his new strategies he did held his ground against different commanders of kaurvakas army,. Krishna, shinkandin , abhimanyu ,satyaki

@BOLD - 🙃

The war wasn't between 20 odd men, Millions of warriors participated in it and Arjun killed 7 Akshauhini in one day


Akshauhini - An akshauhini is described in the Mahabharata as a battle formation consisting of 21,870 chariots; 21,870 elephants; 65,610 horses and 109,350 infantry as per the Mahabharata. Thus one akshauhini consisted of 218,700 warriors.


218700 X 7 = 1,530, 900


Arjun killed one and half million Kaurava warriors in one day

Edited by NoraSM - 5 years ago
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago
#23

Originally posted by: NoraSM

@BOLD - 🙃

The war wasn't between 20 odd men, Millions of warriors participated in it and Arjun killed 7 Akshauhini in one day


Akshauhini - An akshauhini is described in the Mahabharata as a battle formation consisting of 21,870 chariots; 21,870 elephants; 65,610 horses and 109,350 infantry as per the Mahabharata. Thus one akshauhini consisted of 218,700 warriors.


218700 X 7 = 1,530, 900


Arjun killed one and half million Kaurava warriors in one day


Current Indian popln - 1.35 billion

Army size - 2 million

A kingdom the size of Hastinapuri, even in TODAY'S time, could simply not have millions of soldiers.


Moreover, Kurukshetra size - 591 mi². It simply couldn't hold 3-4 million soldiers plus other equipment and animals (horses and elephants)


Another point: there are 86,400 seconds in a day. Even if Arjuna were to somehow take an arrow from his quiver, load it up, aim, and shoot in under a second, the max he could've done is 86,400 in 24 hours unless he set fire to the enemy. Setting fire from a chariot would be nearly an impossible task because it would burn HIM down.


Those numbers which add up to 1.5 million are clear hyperbole.

NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#24

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


Current Indian popln - 1.35 billion

Army size - 2 million

A kingdom the size of Hastinapuri, even in TODAY'S time, could simply not have millions of soldiers.


Moreover, Kurukshetra size - 591 mi². It simply couldn't hold 3-4 million soldiers plus other equipment and animals (horses and elephants)


Another point: there are 86,400 seconds in a day. Even if Arjuna were to somehow take an arrow from his quiver, load it up, aim, and shoot in under a second, the max he could've done is 86,400 in 24 hours unless he set fire to the enemy. Setting fire from a chariot would be nearly an impossible task because it would burn HIM down.


Those numbers which add up to 1.5 million are clear hyperbole.


India isn't a nation with mandatory army training, I think people back in those days had to fight for their Kings, I am not sure about it


It is absolutely possibly that the number of soldiers was less still Arjun killed 7 Akshauhini, even if you reduce the number of warriors in it. The ratio is going down with number of warriors in the war, doesn't lessen his impact

Pandavas had 7 Akshauhini and Kauravas had 11

Edited by NoraSM - 5 years ago
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago
#25

Originally posted by: NoraSM


India isn't a nation with mandatory army training, I think people back in those days had to fight for their Kings, I am not sure about it


It is absolutely possibly that the number of soldiers was less still Arjun killed 7 Akshauhini, even if you reduce the number of warriors in it. The ratio is going down with number of warriors in the war, doesn't lessen his impact

Pandavas had 7 Akshauhini and Kauravas had 11


Point I was making was Hastinapuri was only a small nation. Back in the day, the total population of subcontinent was not billion plus like today. There weren't enough people.


The numbers were likely hyperbole to please Janmejaya.

NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#26

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


Point I was making was Hastinapuri was only a small nation. Back in the day, the total population of subcontinent was not billion plus like today. There weren't enough people.


The numbers were likely hyperbole to please Janmejaya.

Oh

I thought Hastinapur was India 🤔 What is Akhand Bharat? I am sorry for swaying from the topic

1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago
#27

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Oh

I thought Hastinapur was India 🤔 What is Akhand Bharat? I am sorry for swaying from the topic


The entire empire didn't go to war against Pandavas. War was allies of Hatsinapuri vs. allies of Pandavas. Not all the kingdoms of the subcontinent participated. There is a list given somewhere at the beginning of the war.


IIRC, the only one to participate south of the Vindhyas was Pandya. I think he functioned mainly in providing food to Pandavas. Not sure about this info though.

NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#28

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


The entire empire didn't go to war against Pandavas. War was allies of Hatsinapuri vs. allies of Pandavas. Not all the kingdoms of the subcontinent participated. There is a list given somewhere at the beginning of the war.


IIRC, the only one to participate south of the Vindhyas was Pandya. I think he functioned mainly in providing food to Pandavas. Not sure about this info though.

It means millions of people didn't participate in the war, the more I get to know about it, the more I come to believe that it was just a property dispute rather than the whole Adharm vs Dharm 😂🤦‍♀️

1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago
#29

Originally posted by: NoraSM

It means millions of people didn't participate in the war, the more I get to know about it, the more I come to believe that it was just a property dispute rather than the whole Adharm vs Dharm 😂🤦‍♀️


There is a beautiful line I read somewhere in an MBH related book


There was a multiplicity of motives battling it out in Kurukshetra. For Pandavas and Kauravas, it was a property dispute. For Panchali, it was the idea of what an ideal ruler should be, a.k.a dharma. She says so a few times. I think the same for Krishna. For Vyasa, it was about a united land.

Edited by HearMeRoar - 5 years ago
NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#30

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


There is a beautiful line I read somewhere in an MBH related book


There was a multiplicity of motives battling it out in Kurukshetra. For Pandavas and Kauravas, it was a property dispute. For Panchali, it was the idea of what an ideal ruler should be, a.k.a dharma. She says so a few times. I think the same for Krishna. For Vyasa, it was about a united land.


That's beautiful

One more question 🙃 Was Vyasa really a powerful man? I don't know much about him, I thought he is just a writer

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