Debate Championship Rnd 2: Closed!!! - Page 5

[quote]erm..Exactly what confusions have risen since the 5th leap? i feel the stories have been clear and interesting...they have shown characters in a different light which have been crucial to the storylines.[/quote]

There have been so many confusions.During a leap,so many things happen.Especially in a 20 year leap. New characters are added,and there are diffrent stories with diff. characters.And they're not even made clear to us,so we are left guessing.Take KT,seriously..after the leap,everyone was saying that KT is is Karan and Nandani's daughter...it was completly illogical.Especially because so many of them haven't watched Kyunki before the leap. I mean, if there was no leap...people wouldn't be making such judgements.And perhaps even understand it better.But adding a generation leap,just ruins everything and is so not needed!



By the way,you guys- Why would I say that 'Kyunki is better of with leaps', if I am debation contrary to that. I do not have mental problems that I would say something like that!

Originally posted by: -xx-Roohani-xx-

There have been so many confusions.During a leap,so many things happen.Especially in a 20 year leap. New characters are added,and there are diffrent stories with diff. characters.And they're not even made clear to us,so we are left guessing.Take KT,seriously..after the leap,everyone was saying that KT is is Karan and Nandani's daughter...it was completly illogical.Especially because so many of them haven't watched Kyunki before the leap. I mean, if there was no leap...people wouldn't be making such judgements.And perhaps even understand it better.But adding a generation leap,just ruins everything and is so not needed!

By the way,you guys- Why would I say that 'Kyunki is better of with leaps', if I am debation contrary to that. I do not have mental problems that I would say something like that!

You cannot blame a leap for confusions. You have not given any important confusion. As for people thinking KT is Nandini and Karan's daughter, that is a fantasy or prediction people make themselves. Even without a leap people can make far-fetched predictions. I am sorry but your given example does not emphasise your point clearly or strongly.

And again Roohani, you did say Kyunki was better off with leaps. Just check before posting next time to avoid confusions.

[quote=anu]Okay, forget that I know you. How do you know that I know what you meant? You had at the very least a hour to check your post, and state in an accompanying post what you actually meant. Don't blame me. I simply pointed out what you said.[/quote]

I think it would be common sense to know that if I am debating that Kyunki does NOT require leaps, I would not say that is does.

[quote]Like Rutu said, we are talking about Kyunki, so let's stick to that but if you really want me to reply, Friends had TEN seasons in TEN years while Kyunki only had 2 generation leaps in 7 years. I said in my opening statement, in US, shows go on seasonal breaks for renovation. If seasonal breaks were allowed in India, then definitely Kyunki would not require any leaps but this is not the case. Due to the commercial aspect, seasonal breaks are not allowed therefore, soap operas must resort to generation leaps. Far more years? Three years is definitely not "far more years". Might I add that, this debate is not about Kyunki ending with grace – it is about generation leaps and whether they are required or not. Okay, if she can play the role, why do you have qualms? There is definitely going to be someone who has to play an older character so why can't that someone be Smriti? People have already seen her playing her age in the beginning of Kyunki, Virrudh and TSZTSA. So if you want to see her playing someone her own age, try watching the shows mentioned. [/quote]

Seasonal breaks are not THAT long. So you agree, Kyunki would NOT require any leaps? You keep saying how according to the story and everything, Kyunki needs to have leaps, but then you say that as long as there are seasonal breaks…Kyunki needs no leap? Hun, you need to get your opinion straight. I meant that in though it did not have any leaps, it did very well and ended the same way. So, why can't Kyunki also go on without any leaps and when it does end…end with grace? It is just very hard to imagine someone of that age going trough such difficulties, it's not real at all. I know it's fiction, but it would be much easier to relate to if she would have stayed the same age, or grew older slowly…not just one day she's 20 and the next thing you know…she's 40. It's so stupid!

[quote]Here's what you said. I personally feel that the first leap was good. So far so good. You said you felt the leap was good then you said But in the first leap,all these things happend fast and early. So, first you said you felt the first leap was good BUT it was fast and early. Meaning you were pointing out a glitch in the leap. I did not put words in your mouth. Merely restated what you said in a different manner. So what if the overall idea was the same? Here I go off-topic: Friends, the show you mentioned was so good and all that, had the same overall idea throughout all seasons so when you are okay with that, what is wrong with it happening in Kyunki? Again, give particular examples of when there was a leap and "nothing more but new faces were offered".[/quote]

It makes perfect sense to me. This is what I meant: I personally feel that the first leap was good, but the reason for this is, everything happened fast and early. It actually makes sense. But if doesn't to you, I can put it like this too: I personally…. AND the reason is that everything happened fast and early. I was not pointing out the glitch at all. You may check somewhere that using 'but' in this statement made sense! It did not have the same overall idea. There were different stories shown throughout and also with different people. Everyone faced challenges and matured so much and the show had absolutely no leaps. The stories were defiantly repeated. Again, I mention… KT and Nandani were both raped, under different circumstances but it's still the same thing, repeating a rape… After every leap, it shown that people are parted from the person they love and that also while they both live in the same house. What's more is, Eklavya and Ansh, father and son both turn out evil. That also, both were for stupid reasons. One was for revenge and another to fulfill his manly desires. It just goes to show…after a leap, no one NEW is shown evil…possibly, Lakshya or someone? But it turns out to be the child of the evil man. How about the Lakshya-KT-Eku triangle? Isn't that the same way Gautum ended up marrying Damini, when Karan was supposed to?


[quote]She never really faced Payal, pre-leaps, one-on-one. Payal wanted to enter Virani house to destroy it. After first leap, Payal wanted to separate Vishal-Shobha. Sure enough, Tanya, Tripti and Damini were present pre-leap, however, she has a conflict with Tanya, Tripti and Damini because of their grown up children. Also, she was a tad bit too busy with Mihir to face Tripti. You said a lot more obstacles Tulsi would have come across but she can't be the same age forever. The point is for all these seven years, Tulsi JUST COULDN'T be the same age, otherwise we would only see a not-fully matured Tulsi trying to face problems she normally wouldn't until she was older. It would be like a child trying to be an adult. And anyways, creativity could be added to generation leaps as well. The serial shows different phases of Tulsi and how she deals with her dilemmas in each phase. [/quote]

It is possible to see a person mature without having generation leaps. And epsically those of a whole 20 years! They could have had leaps of 5 years or something, and slowly still been able to watch her grow older. And in that case, maybe there would still be something new to show. Unlike now, when there is nothing!

[quote=-xx-Roohani-xx-]I think it would be common sense to know that if I am debating that Kyunki does NOT require leaps, I would not say that is does. [/quote]

People often say a lot of things they don't want to. How do we know this isn't just one of those things? And just because you are debating that Kyunki does not require leaps, does not implicate you would not say that. Slip of the true feelings, perhaps? Common sense? Common sense doesn't matter, MY sense doesn't matter, what matters are your words which clearly stated: "Kyunki is better off with always having leaps".

Originally posted by: -xx-Roohani-xx-

It makes perfect sense to me. This is what I meant: I personally feel that the first leap was good, but the reason for this is, everything happened fast and early. It actually makes sense. But if doesn't to you, I can put it like this too: I personally…. AND the reason is that everything happened fast and early. I was not pointing out the glitch at all. You may check somewhere that using 'but' in this statement made sense!

It did not have the same overall idea. There were different stories shown throughout and also with different people. Everyone faced challenges and matured so much and the show had absolutely no leaps. The stories were defiantly repeated. Again, I mention… KT and Nandani were both raped, under different circumstances but it's still the same thing, repeating a rape… After every leap, it shown that people are parted from the person they love and that also while they both live in the same house.

What's more is, Eklavya and Ansh, father and son both turn out evil. That also, both were for stupid reasons. One was for revenge and another to fulfill his manly desires. It just goes to show…after a leap, no one NEW is shown evil…possibly, Lakshya or someone? But it turns out to be the child of the evil man. How about the Lakshya-KT-Eku triangle? Isn't that the same way Gautum ended up marrying Damini, when Karan was supposed to?

I never said it didn't make "sense" to me. No point emphasizing on the meaning and/or trying to paraphrase it, now. I interpreted it keeping the function of "But" in mind. Taken from Wikipedia: But is a common conjunction in English used between two or more clauses, which often implies the immediately following clause will be the difference of the original clauses. So don't bother rephrasing the sentence.

Again, stick to Kyunki. I only went off-topic because you did. In Friends, did Joey and Chandler not have flings with different women? Wasn't THAT an overall similar idea? And this happened in the very same season! Ross broke up with Julie in Season 2, in the subsequent season, Chandler broke up with Janice and in the sub-subsequent season, Ross breaks up with Bonnie – is that NOT a similar overall idea? So if you don't have problems with that, I don't see how you should have problems with repetition of overall idea. After every leap, it shown that people are parted from the person they love and that also while they both live in the same house. Specify, please!

On the point of Eklavya, he was NEVER told the truth so he assumed that whatever happened to him, happened to his dad and therefore wanted to avenge his father's death. For Ansh: Shraddha completely broke him. He really loved her and she pretended to cheat on him – that shattered him. He was a wronged man who turned into a devil - this is definitely not stupid. Also, you say Ansh was evil for a stupid reason but keep in mind, was the place where he grew up a pleasant environment for a child to be in Drugs, violence etc. Previously, I pointed out differences between them as well. To quote myself:

Originally posted by: I

No, it's NOT enough that they are both evil. Its being as vague as saying Bhumi and KT are females! Ansh got psycho because he was madly in love with Shraddha but when Shraddha learned she had illness, she pretended she was cheating on him with someone to isolate her from him. Little did she know this would make him psycho. He got obsessed with Nandini and he would have gone to any extent to get her while Eklavya is a different story. He was falsely accused of a heinous crime which rebuked his inner devil. Also, he wants to avenge his father's death – Ansh wanted Nandini. Eklavya bluffed Tulsi into marrying KT – Ansh married Nandini with Tulsi's approval. Ansh raped Nandini – Eklavya did not. On the point of genes – it depends if the gene is recessive or dominant. If it's dominant – like in most Ekta soaps – then the child follows her/his parent's path.

You never fail to bemuse me. A person raping someone is not evil? :S Sure he doesn't scheme but isn't raping a form of lust which is a cardinal sin? Also, the leap is not finished yet – how can you be so sure that someone else from the new generation won't turn evil? No, it's not. Damini's parents weren't going to marry her off to Karan anyways because he was illegitimate child. Gautam proposed; Eklavya bluffed.

Originally posted by: -xx-Roohani-xx-

It is possible to see a person mature without having generation leaps. And epsically those of a whole 20 years!

They could have had leaps of 5 years or something, and slowly still been able to watch her grow older. And in that case, maybe there would still be something new to show. Unlike now, when there is nothing!

How could she possibly mature if she was going to stay 25-30 something for the period of time Kyunki has been running? Tell me, how do you plan on seeing a women go through a daughter-in-law to a mother-in-law without generation leaps? Already, you complained there were "so many leaps" now if they go by 5 years or whatever, wouldn't there be way too much leaps?

"Ah-ha! So, we've established my proposal as sound in principle. Now, we're just haggling over price." - Jack Sparrow; Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest. Courtesy: The Internet Movie Database.

How does this quote relate to the bold comment? The proposal/sound here is generation leaps, principle is requirement and price is the number of years. Ah, let's see now. Isn't that a prediction as well? No evidence backs that up. How do you know they would not have repeated overall ideas?

Seasonal breaks are not THAT long. So you agree, Kyunki would NOT require any leaps? You keep saying how according to the story and everything, Kyunki needs to have leaps, but then you say that as long as there are seasonal breaks…Kyunki needs no leap? Hun, you need to get your opinion straight. I meant that in though it did not have any leaps, it did very well and ended the same way. So, why can't Kyunki also go on without any leaps and when it does end…end with grace? It is just very hard to imagine someone of that age going trough such difficulties, it's not real at all. I know it's fiction, but it would be much easier to relate to if she would have stayed the same age, or grew older slowly…not just one day she's 20 and the next thing you know…she's 40. It's so stupid!

[/quote]

Seasonal breaks are seasonal breaks – long or short, thick or thin. If my memory doesn't betray me, Friends went on a seasonal break every eight months. Four months is long enough to renovate any show. For a weekly show, it's WAY TOO MUCH! Especially for a show which airs twenty-four 22 min episodes in eight months. Often, seasonal breaks do bring in leaps, you know? The renovation aspect of seasonal break includes leaps as well. Thus, when I said "Kyunki wouldn't require any leaps", I presumed you included leaps in the renovation aspect of seasonal breaks. I meant that Kyunki would not require generation leaps on its own but with seasonal breaks. I apologize for not being clear. Friends had a topic they focused for the day/week – there is no such restriction on Kyunki. Like I previously mentioned, Balaji did not create any of its soaps for recognition or for changing the way people think/act, they created the soaps for TRPs and money which are easily obtained by generation leaps.

You just trashed Smriti's acting abilities. If you say it's "very hard to imagine someone of that age going through such difficulties", you are questioning Smriti's suspension of disbelief. These characters are too much of fiction to relate to. If she only played her age, people/directors/producers would think she only wanted to play her age and she may lose out on good offers because of that. An actor does NOT have to play his/her own age. If she stayed the same for the seven years Kyunki has been running, I'm sure Balaji would have run out of ideas to create obstacles in her path. Plus, this isn't comedy like Friends where anything and everything can be brought in.

Yes,I did say that they are not always required.But,if I said that they were NEVER required...that would be taking it too far and plus, it's my opinion. All you did was look at one thing I said and ignore the rest of it? Instead of emphasizing on one thing,why don't you try and post a rebuttle to my posts!?

When you added always it meant that you agree that leaps are somewhat needed! Saying that leaps are NEVER required and saying that leaps are not always required are two completely different things! you drifted off your side by saying that 'leaps aren't always required' and are now trying to makeup for it! And when I said that you were emphasizing on thing only I meant that you were presenting reasons that explained your desire for the show to end rather than giving out reasons that would explain from your point why generation leaps are not required! Incase you've forgotten deary, the previous debate is over and the topic for this debate is 'Are generation leaps required or not' I'll stick to what I said. And about that rebuttle you mentioned, I'll do just that deary

Actually, yes…It is possible for a show to progress without having any leaps at all. Take a show like 'Friends' for example, it was one of the most hit shows and survived without ANY leaps at all. Now, you might argue that the show is completely different from KSBKBT, but it's still a show people watch on TV and ran for more years than Kyunki and ended with such grace. Smriti can play someone older than her, but there is a difference between doing a role of a person who is 10, 20 or even 30 years older than you. But Smriti is playing someone who is more than 30 years older than her. She may pull it off, but I would much rather see her play someone around her own age. And I am sure many other people would too. Well, in my honest opinion, I think a soap opera can continue without having any leaps at all.

Firstly friends was a 'sitcom' where as Kyunki is a 'soap opera' A sopa opera has a continuos story line and is a drama rather than a comedy. A sitcom is individual stories where the same characters are placed in different comedic situations. Friends was divided into seasons where as Kyunki is a daily soap; hence the reason why it ran for more years than kyunki.Smriti is an actress. Actors/actresses NEED to play various roles, that's what acting is. And people enjoy actors playing different roles, be that a 20 year old playing a 70 year old or a 40 year old playing a 20 year old. people get used to their favourite actors/actresses playing roles that are older than them or younger. Take tulsi for example. Would a 70 year old grand mother as herself look good as a 32 year old?

Since I will be going to sleep in another half an hour,I do not have the time to post replies and a closing statement. So,I have decided to go ahead and post my closing statement and then go to bed... 😳

As Rutu stated in the opening statement,everything is good when done properly and carefully.But in Kyunki's case, that is not how it is.


Genertion leaps make it hard for us to relate to the character,just because they become 20 years older in the span of 24 hours,doesn't mean we can too. One second the person is dealing with one issue,after the leap...it's something more mature.It's so dumb and illogical.Another thing that happens after a leap are,that many mysteries go unsolved and are never resolved.Which just adds more confusing to the show.


A Generation leap always brings fresh faces,but in this case...the new actors did not match up to the abilites of the ones from the first leap.For example,Lakshya and KT(Pulkit and Mouni) are compared to Karan and Nandani, but can probably never be near equal to to Hiten and Gauri.People might have L-KT as a couple before but still more people were fans of Karan/Nandani.And now,people are getting sick and tired of watching Pulkit and Mouni's lack of acting abilities.

Even the ages of the people are messed up.Thinking logically,a person might be a certain age...but turns out,in the show..it's far from the real thing.And Baa...in order to keep her in the show,they had to show her living older than a 100.Perhaps if there were no generation leaps,there would be no problem with age.

After the 2nd leap,many of the plots from the 1st leap were repeated.Such as,KT's rape,L-KT-Eku love triangle,Eklavya being as evil as his father and also how Tulsi never has anyone beliving her,especailly Mihir.Even after he knows so much,he always second-guesses her and questions her,if not the other people...atleast he could have stopped suspecting her of always being the bad guy.

It is possible to run a soap opera without showing 2 generation leaps in 7 years. If they are creative enough and contemplate it more, nothing is impossible!Maybe even having a few small 5 year leaps every 2 years or so?That way,it's possible for the charecters to mature but avoid confusion!


And the last thing,people in this show look so fake! People who are older than thier co-stars are playing thier son.(Ex.Tulsi-Karan).So much makeup to make them look older or younger than they actaully are. But sometimes the older people start looking younger than the youngsters. It's so darn confusing!


Those are many of the reasons why our group thinks that generation leaps are not a requirement.


-Gen.Leaps NOT a Requirement

[I'm sorry for interfering in the debate once again, but since Anu (mz. seductive) had technical difficulties w/ IF, she asked me to post her closing statement for her.😛]

Her message:

A 20-year-leap formula have found wide acceptance as the ideal remedy to revivify a show on the Indian television scene. Generation leaps are the "in" thing in television soaps, especially soaps from Balaji Telefilms. The concept is not new and has been used countless times in soap operas – Balaji or not.

In order to renovate the serial from time to time, generation leaps are required. Generation leaps bring in new characters who add freshness and spice to the show. This is done to maintain viewer's interest, as they will get tired of seeing the protagonist do the same thing each time. New characters provide refreshment and often seem to have different ideas from the older generation, which is quite realistic because of the generation gap.

Seasonal breaks would be helpful but even then generation leaps would be required because Tulsi simply cannot go from daughter-in-law to a mother-in-law, as the title suggests, without generation leaps. So, by generation leaps, the production house covers the entire cycle of a protagonist's life: Her youth, Middle age and Old Age by adding a newer dimension to it, from time to time, through new characters.


"I think that leaps should only be incorporated when there is not other option for the story to move ahead. 'Kyunki...' has already taken many leaps, but it is justified as it is a long running show."
– Anand Suryavanshi

Kyunki is about Tulsi's journey from a wife/daughter-in-law to a mother-in-law. Generation leaps speed up this process because it is virtually impossible to record every single day of her life. Generation leaps highlight the most important and powerful points of her life Generation leaps also help develop characters. Today, the character is 40, tomorrow it's 60. Though the overall characterization remains the same, in these years, circumstances would have changed so obviously, the character would have problems. There must've been conflicts. These things add shades to the character.

If the actor wants to play a younger or older character and has the ability & charisma to carry that character off, how should it matter to anyone what the actor's real age is? It is absurd to categorize actors on the basis of their age. If they can act like a son to someone who in real life is older than them, then how should it matter to any Tom, Dick or Harry? Also, the point of looking "fake" has been brought up. Do people, in real life, not look younger/older than their age? So what if Kyunki uses that as an example?

Generation leaps not only help the show rake in TRPs but also help actors who are vying for a chance to get into a soap opera. Generation leaps have brought in great actors – such as Reshmi Ghosh, Tina Parekh, Manoj Bohra and the list goes on. Such actors help rake in TRPs as they provided the much needed freshness.

Generation leaps are a must in shows, especially Kyunki which focuses on Tulsi's life as a whole. They help gain TRPs – which is the most important thing to production houses such as Balaji - and revive a show that may be going astray.