indi52 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#1

"my name is not my lord," replied the monster, "but beast; i don't love compliments, not i. i like people to speak as they think; and so do not imagine, i am to be moved by any of your flattering speeches. but you say you have got daughters. i will forgive you, on condition that one of them come willingly, and suffer for you. let me have no words, but go about your business, and swear that if your daughter refuse to die in your stead, you will return within three months." 

~~~ jeanne-marie leprince de beaumont, beauty and the beast ~~~




would like to chat about rajkumar, shaitan, women and their expectations re whom they will marry and such stuff.

also about love meaning you gotta love the beast not just the prince... 

i may not be too coherent... 

completely whacked right now, back from a beautiful but strenuous trip, and two whiskies down... but 226 bothers me... got to place it in the structure somewhere.

one of the most stunning first episodes i have seen was ipk's... so full, so detailed and such a fabulous opener... key aspects of the story all there... except for shyam.

it starts on a wedding. weddings are a major concern in india... somehow there is this premium attached to it... our cultural norms are such, that no matter how educated or independent or "modern" or "westernised" we may be, girls are constantly being told about when they will get married, etc., also a notion of the prince or the rajkumar who will come to marry one. 

of course, the prince is a constant in most european fairy tales, maybe in all fairy tales.

in the idea of the rajkumar is perhaps the collective desire of women as to what they look for in the man with whom they hope to make a permanent relationship.

first episode... she's haring off on her scooter to meet a man who is about to marry her sis, she's dressed for the occasion, people stare at her... maybe she's a runaway bride... again in nainital days this idea comes up... she was always a bride maybe.

anyway, this large family stares at her and by way of explanation she says she's got a drama competition on at school and so is going dressed up as "rajkumari".

prompt comes the curious boy's question, so where's your rajkumar?

and a second later, the helicopter drone is in... rajkumar is here.

after this, the theme of what kind of a guy one wants to marry has come up, especially in the lovely conversation garima has with her daughters in 127 and 128...

she says in 127: 

"aur kuch toh.. kuch toh shadiya itni jaldi jaldi tai ho jaati hai ki, hum apne aap se poochte rah jaate hain ki yeh jo bhi hum kar rahe hain kya sahi kar rahe hain? kaun hai yeh insaan jisske saath hum poori zindagi bitane ja rahe hain? hum toh theek tarah se isse jaante tak nahin... hazzaron sawal poochte hain... lekin jawab ek bhi nahin milta... kahe? ki oo jawab zindagi jeekar hi milte hain... aur kabhi wahi rishte jeevan bhar ka saath ban jaate hain..."

"and some... some weddings get fixed so fast, that we are left asking ourselves that this what we are doing, is it even right? who is this person with whom we're going to spend our whole lives? we don't even know this person well... thousands of questions we ask... but not even one answer we find... why? because that answer is found by living this life... and sometimes that relationship becomes the mainstay of ones whole life..."

in 128, she completes her thought.

"jeevan mein halat kaise bhi ho achhe burey... koi faraq nahin padta... jeevan saathi achha hona chahiye. bas."

"whatever the conditions may be in life, good or bad... doesn't make a difference... one's life partner should be good, that's all."


shaitan/rajkumar doesn't come up but it's a beautiful chat about what makes a life partner... a hint that preconceived notions can come in the way... it's only after you live a life with a person the many questions you have about the one you marry get answered and that relationship becomes essential to existence along the way.

in 226, the rajkumar idea comes back, but this time with the added element of shaitan. is he beast, is he prince? while i did not like the choice of tale or perhaps more, the execution of the episode... i have to say there is a lovely idea it brings up... 

they never spoke of this in the show, but there was a wondrous condition that had to be fulfilled if the prince had to be released from the curse in beauty and the beast. 

someone had to love him as he was... ugly, unpolished, not at all rajkumar like... someone had to love him as the beast... only then would he be free of the curse.

belle loved the beast as he was... not because she thought he was the prince, not because he looked handsome, not because she was less scared, she loved his many virtues... she just loved him. that was all.

here too, khushi grew to love him for whatever he was... no matter how monstrous he appeared at times, she could sense his beauty, his loving heart, his conscience, even his kindness... the most touching sign of that came when he finally told her why he had married her. yes, she was at first enraged that he should think such a thing of her, but soon enough her entire concern became him, how bad he must be feeling, how she had to prove to him that this was not the case. she did this not to prove her innocence, but because she didn't want him to suffer. and later came the most poignant confession of love ever... without using the word love even once... her soliloquy about the feelings that grow in nafrat, in hatred... and a feeling in all of that which says, give it a chance.

khushi went further than belle, she loved the beastly bits of her man and his essential prince.  

a sense of love beyond the pretty stories of princes and princesses all the time in ipk. perhaps that's why it was so real. 

but back to beauty and the beast... after 226, the theme of shaitan/rajkumar continues in 242 during preeto's wedding... when khushi sees him with the bridegroom and realises he had a hand in the whole resolution of the problem.

"kaun hai yeh... shaitan yehi... rajkumar yehi... ek insaan ke do chehre... hum inhen kabhi samajh hi nahin paayenge, ek pal me itna pyaar... aur doosre pal mein inse itna dar lagta hai..."

"who is he... monster is he... prince is he... one person and two faces... i will never be able to understand him, in one instant so much love... in the next i feel so scared of him..."

words similar to what she'd wondered about in 225 when she saw him loving and gentle with his sister and recalled his uncalled for brutality with her the night before.

later she described asr to her mother as "duniya ke sabse achhe pati" the best husband in the world, attributing to him several rajkumar qualities... which no doubt he had. but again the beauty of it was that it wasn't true yet... and still she loved him... her own shaitan.

i have no idea if the rajkumar/shaitan thing was explored or alluded to later... but obviously 225 was the starting point of the exploration of asr in a more stated way, with her first ponderings on his complexity... his two sides.

in 226 this is made even more apparent using the beauty and the beast story... and through the gh track we will see shades of this exploration, how he seems to be one guy, but is in fact much more complex, nuanced.

the same man who without consulting anyone brusquely orders a whole airconditioner set up in someone else's house, is also sensitive to the elders' fears and needs... adjusts with things he feels he ought to, shows extreme respect to garima ji, bua ji, babu ji... and how sensitively he handles the issue of rations for the house.

khushi thinks he knows nothing about how the other half lives... that he looks down on the middle class but in fact, she starts seeing his virtues right here in this milieu, none of which she expected to find in him.

in the fairytale the beast would ask belle every night if she'd marry him and she'd say "no", because she could not go beyond his ugliness till she was ready to.

at gh he'd lie next to her night after night, so often a heart touching emotion in his eyes, a mix of regret remorse love helplessness and more, maybe his heart was asking khushi what he had wanted to ask that day not so far away... will you marry me.





and every night, the beast asked her, "will you marry me?"

a shot from episode 243.

i wrote this in the blast from the past thread, and a friend suggested i put it up here... might be fun to talk about. asr was always an enigma, a bit beyond easy deciphering. please do leave your thoughts vis a vis the whole shaitan/rajkumar, beauty/beast thing here, would love to read.
Edited by indi52 - 10 years ago

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DurgaS thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#2

Good you brought this here Indi. I myself had more to talk about this. Will be back. 😊

Edited by DurgaS - 10 years ago
indi52 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#3
^^^
thanks, khushidm 😳
Horizon thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#4

Very early on...these two were metaphorically related to dhoop and chaand.. .. complementing each other and completing a day!

That fire with in.. the beast within of him .. either the cause or the effect ...of those initial wretched days .. perhaps  was needed to wade through, see light and reach where he did ultimately.  So what if he didn't believe in bhagwan.. so what if he didn't believe in rituals...although he was averse to the term... he never really lost the ability to love or be responsible... things that mattered. 
 
How ever, he was beastly to Khushi many a times .. stemming from his insecurities...nevertheless the beauty was always there juxtaposing... and it came out only it synced with a perfectly complementing soul..
 
 

Pasting my post from the blast thread..

Brilliantly perspective write up! How you connected this tale to the very first day to when he holds her hand while she sleeps...
 
Your "will you marry me Khushi" while he holds her hand as she sleeps adds so much more meaning and extra depth to his  "jab tum soti ho tho tum se baath karna kitna aasan ho jatha hai".. that is the baath he always wanted to do.. thats what he always wanted to ask.. Indi, this is THE most beautiful connection...👏 that sounded exactly like my asr!
 
The mentioning of the first glimpse of that rajkumar up in the sky.. gave goosebumps to this shallow soul...but that time perhaps  he himself wasn't aware of the rajkumar residing inside him...great treasures hiding inside need great excavations.. some crumbling.. some dismantling.. a few breaks.. alas those of hearts here.. and this beauty indeed did all that digging..
 
but, he did wear his heart on his sleeve most of the times.. may be not as obvious.. but for those willing to see its very much there... that frame of he carrying her out of that crumbling building.. I can watch it endlessly... he looked a man enlightened.. a man who attained nirvana.. a man transformed..  by love.. for love.. in love!
 
The beast seemed to have taken a back seat ever since only to reappear during Diwali Farq padtha hai and that came back later to that "characterless" talk on the bridge. He wasn't necessarily a beast during their marriage...his desperation .. his longing written all over his face.. again for those willing to see...this is drama and there is a need to prolong.. but it should have been quite obvious as to  why he was mad as opposed to her brushing off of the reason for his "chot" .
 
"also about love meaning you gotta love the beast not just the prince.."
 
Life wasn't easy for her with this beast.. ..Not sure if Khushi  loved the beast inside of him...she didn't really seem to have loved him as he is.. unlike Lavanya.. but Khushi is a believer who believes in general good things of life than bad.. so she believed in that rajkumar than in the beast.. she hoped/believed  in the ultimate triumph of that prince over the beast.. and she wasn't wrong!
 
But what these two have gone through.. altho painful..it laid a firm foundation to their relationship.. as every relationship will go through these obstacles.. if not now the  certainly later.. like Akash and Payal..when the same thing poured bitterness in their married life..
 
I am not at all lucid here but for my urge to mention the both sides of him.. .. as this is THE gist of this love story...the seemingly unreachable beauty inside of him.. may be of every one.. as no one is pure black and white..
 
I loved it is an understatement.. so will only thank you for bringing this topic  onto the table!!
 
EDIT: btw, if you are talking about real life, give me ASR.. anyday.. I will love him jus the way he is.. with all his beauty and the beast intact...
Edited by Horizon - 10 years ago
indi52 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: Horizon

Very early on...these two were metaphorically related to dhoop and chaand.. .. complementing each other and completing a day!

That fire with in.. the beast within of him .. either the cause or the effect ...of those initial wretched days .. perhaps  was needed to wade through, see light and reach where he did ultimately.  So what if he didn't believe in bhagwan.. so what if he didn't believe in rituals...although he was averse to the term... he never really lost the ability to love or be responsible... things that mattered. 
 
How ever, he was beastly to Khushi many a times .. stemming from his insecurities...nevertheless the beauty was always there juxtaposing... and it came out only it synced with a perfectly complementing soul..
 
 

Pasting my post from the blast thread..

Brilliantly perspective write up! How you connected this tale to the very first day to when he holds her hand while she sleeps...
 
Your "will you marry me Khushi" while he holds her hand as she sleeps adds so much more meaning and extra depth to his  "jab tum soti ho tho tum se baath karna kitna aasan ho jatha hai".. that is the baath he always wanted to do.. thats what he always wanted to ask.. Indi, this is THE most beautiful connection...👏 that sounded exactly like my asr!
 
The mentioning of the first glimpse of that rajkumar up in the sky.. gave goosebumps to this shallow soul...but that time perhaps  he himself wasn't aware of the rajkumar residing inside him...great treasures hiding inside need great excavations.. some crumbling.. some dismantling.. a few breaks.. alas those of hearts here.. and this beauty indeed did all that digging..
 
but, he did wear his heart on his sleeve most of the times.. may be not as obvious.. but for those willing to see its very much there... that frame of he carrying her out of that crumbling building.. I can watch it endlessly... he looked a man enlightened.. a man who attained nirvana.. a man transformed..  by love.. for love.. in love!
 
The beast seemed to have taken a back seat ever since only to reappear during Diwali Farq padtha hai and that came back later to that "characterless" talk on the bridge. He wasn't necessarily a beast during their marriage...his desperation .. his longing written all over his face.. again for those willing to see...this is drama and there is a need to prolong.. but it should have been quite obvious as to  why he was mad as opposed to her brushing off of the reason for his "chot" .
 
"also about love meaning you gotta love the beast not just the prince.."
 
Life wasn't easy for her with this beast.. ..Not sure if Khushi  loved the beast inside of him...she didn't really seem to have loved him as he is.. unlike Lavanya.. but Khushi is a believer who believes in general good things of life than bad.. so she believed in that rajkumar than in the beast.. she hoped/believed  in the ultimate triumph of that prince over the beast.. and she wasn't wrong!
 
But what these two have gone through.. altho painful..it laid a firm foundation to their relationship.. as every relationship will go through these obstacles.. if not now the  certainly later.. like Akash and Payal..when the same thing poured bitterness in their married life..
 
I am not at all lucid here but for my urge to mention the both sides of him.. .. as this is THE gist of this love story...the seemingly unreachable beauty inside of him.. may be of every one.. as no one is pure black and white..
 
I loved it is an understatement.. so will only thank you for bringing this topic  onto the table!!
 
EDIT: btw, if you are talking about real life, give me ASR.. anyday.. I will love him jus the way he is.. with all his beauty and the beast intact...


thanks, horizon... loved all you say... the complexity, the need to understand a human being, the grace to love a person as he/she is. yes yes yes.

me not lucid also... since when was it possible to be lucid when asr was around.

khushi, i too feel, was never really shown to completely embrace him as he was, with joy. la did that.

this could be because somehow tv writing constantly tries to second guess the audience's response and needs, and also there's an attempt to manipulate us. especially through the female leads, who some research must have said the viewer identifies with at some basic level.

khushi is practically presented as his saviour. when you and i know that's not the case. they both need each other equally... to release, to come to full effulgence.

she is his sunshine, his warmth, his joy, the first ray of brightness in his bleak icy life. the first and only time he asks for something for himself. with her he feels happy, safe, and full of hope.

and he is her acidity, her pacing excitement within, her one true no compromise relationship. with whom she feels like a woman and all of herself.

they are never roles when together... always a man and a woman.

they ignite and complement each other.

each is the others home.

given that, would have been marvelous if they could write khushi with more respect and integrity. at times when i couldn't feel for her, could clearly see through the ploy and manipulation, the only way to love her was to see her through asr's eyes... see how she made him feel... and then i sort of did not judge, i just saw his heart leaping and said this is worth it and we are all human, no one's perfect.

but had they written her with honesty, she might have still been imperfect but far far more believable and stronger as a character... ipk would have only gained from this.

much of me could identify with la... shallowness included. khushi became tougher for me to see myself in as we went along... though in the initial days, she was a delight.

dhoop and chandni... oh yes.

DurgaS thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#6
I am back. Wanted to post my poem before I continued here. 😊 
 
It is interesting that the theme started right from the first epi. And he surely was a beast to her all along till she saw glimpses of the prince. And the thought that perhaps he wasn't really a beast started seeping in, only to be proved false time and again. This returning of the beast every time took its toll on the vishwas factor. And it took a long long time for the prince to gain his trust back.
 
The Gupta house track is full of touching moments. On one hand, a trust, a respect seemed to be built brick by brick; on the other hand in RM, the story was faltering at a fast pace. Nevertheless, the story of the beauty and the beast did make progress.
 
Khushi's soliloquy, one of the priceless gems. 😊 
 
indi52 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: DurgaS

I am back. Wanted to post my poem before I continued here. 😊 

 
It is interesting that the theme started right from the first epi. And he surely was a beast to her all along till she saw glimpses of the prince. And the thought that perhaps he wasn't really a beast started seeping in, only to be proved false time and again. This returning of the beast every time took its toll on the vishwas factor. And it took a long long time for the prince to gain his trust back.
 
The Gupta house track is full of touching moments. On one hand, a trust, a respect seemed to be built brick by brick; on the other hand in RM, the story was faltering at a fast pace. Nevertheless, the story of the beauty and the beast did make progress.
 
Khushi's soliloquy, one of the priceless gems. 😊 
 


durga,

it was always a tug of war between his many facets. he seemed like a baddies but he had a side to him that was pure gold... very difficult for us i these days when everything is asked to be black or white, to understand this subtlety and see through to the heart...

i am frankly sick of our judgmental hypocritical ways. fact is most people are like asr, a mix of many things. all of us are capable of a lot of positive and a lot of negative things.

i liked the honesty of their approach to his character.

beauty and the beast was written at a time when society was getting overly concerned with looks or at least the writer felt so. which is why he was ugly and belle chose him because of his qualities not his looks.

if they had had the guts to show khushi with her flaws would have made the story even more strong and khushi absolutely unforgettable. in fact, she did have flaws but they touted them as virtues... instead if they had left them as that and had treated her like a normal person.

actually when she questioned his sexual mores once he did give it to her... in the car, where he told her not to interfere... he was right.

again later, when she ruined his party... actually in my eyes, he was the perfect gentleman there and she a rude interfering know all girl... but we all wanted to see her as perfect and made excuses every time she did something she oughtn't to have... including the miserable behaviour during both there birthdays.

but i was happy knowing, nah, she had her "beast" side and he loved her anyway. felt real.

loved that soliloquy. though by chance happened to see a bit of rr the other day and a poetry about ankahi ansooni was on and i realised gautam hegde has only one essential way of understanding and presenting love that he considers exciting. 

 

stg1 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#8
i bookmarked ur amazing post and forgot to comment and say how much i loved it! i love the way u string together ur words so beautifully and so vividly and the way u recreate the journey ur thoughts took to come to a particular realisation. asr was an enigma for me for a long time, i could understand certain aspects of his personality but there were layers upon layers still hidden that i pondered over a lot. and i never felt we got to see the whole, i still think that they did such a disservice to the original, brilliant initial character sketch when they diluted him so much! but i'll still take what we did get 😳 

i like how they explored the raj kumar/shaitaan aspects of asr in the show, i remember lots of posts analysing the similarities between ipk and beauty and the beast and i remember lapping them all up! asr was always the raj kumar, he just never allowed many to see him without his mask. but i never felt he needed 'saving' from being the beast, it was always a part of him, that's one of the reasons why he was so compelling. both the raj kumar and the shaitaan lived inside him and u couldn't love one without loving the other. and khushi loved all of him, always, the vulnerable little boy, the raakhshas boss, the caring brother, the volatile husband and the sweetly charming daamadji. 

i remember laughing at khushi's dream where she saw herself married to shyam and asr, one loving and sugary sweet and the other, well, acting like a laad governor! 😆 but even then who did she want? her shaitaan of course 😳 not because he was sweet and kind and loving and wonderful then ... but just because! i love the way u've tied it in with the first episode. i always felt that in that very first meet it must have been love, not just attraction, not just desire, not lust, but love. a tiny little speck maybe, unknown and unrecognised given that he didn't believe in it and he was not at all what she had been dreaming about, but yep, pyaar. 

despite all the drama and nafrat there was always that 'ajeeb bhandhan', the one where a shaitaan caused her acidity and dhak dhak and a 'tum jaisi larki' caused him to lose himself whenever she was near. and always, always, dhadkane tez hojate te 😳 

and this cap: 


her raj kumar's heart and his soul were always reflected in those eyes! utterly utterly beautiful, both ur interpretation and ur subject ❤️ 

indi52 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: stg1

i bookmarked ur amazing post and forgot to comment and say how much i loved it! i love the way u string together ur words so beautifully and so vividly and the way u recreate the journey ur thoughts took to come to a particular realisation. asr was an enigma for me for a long time, i could understand certain aspects of his personality but there were layers upon layers still hidden that i pondered over a lot. and i never felt we got to see the whole, i still think that they did such a disservice to the original, brilliant initial character sketch when they diluted him so much! but i'll still take what we did get 😳 

i like how they explored the raj kumar/shaitaan aspects of asr in the show, i remember lots of posts analysing the similarities between ipk and beauty and the beast and i remember lapping them all up! asr was always the raj kumar, he just never allowed many to see him without his mask. but i never felt he needed 'saving' from being the beast, it was always a part of him, that's one of the reasons why he was so compelling. both the raj kumar and the shaitaan lived inside him and u couldn't love one without loving the other. and khushi loved all of him, always, the vulnerable little boy, the raakhshas boss, the caring brother, the volatile husband and the sweetly charming daamadji. 

i remember laughing at khushi's dream where she saw herself married to shyam and asr, one loving and sugary sweet and the other, well, acting like a laad governor! 😆 but even then who did she want? her shaitaan of course 😳 not because he was sweet and kind and loving and wonderful then ... but just because! i love the way u've tied it in with the first episode. i always felt that in that very first meet it must have been love, not just attraction, not just desire, not lust, but love. a tiny little speck maybe, unknown and unrecognised given that he didn't believe in it and he was not at all what she had been dreaming about, but yep, pyaar. 

despite all the drama and nafrat there was always that 'ajeeb bhandhan', the one where a shaitaan caused her acidity and dhak dhak and a 'tum jaisi larki' caused him to lose himself whenever she was near. and always, always, dhadkane tez hojate te 😳 

and this cap: 


her raj kumar's heart and his soul were always reflected in those eyes! utterly utterly beautiful, both ur interpretation and ur subject ❤️ 



stg, 😃

lovely to see you always.

i rambled i am afraid, and thanks therefore for still enjoying it.

i can't have enough of this character. can't imagine we gound him in a serial. can't get over him... and as you say in pink up there, think there's more in him and want to get to know him better. they really should not have toned his character down in any way... sandpapered and polished him... he was utterly gorgeous as he was.

and clever khushi, yes, she did fall for him arrogance, what the, shut up, get out and all, even with him letting go of her hand in that really shaitan way. the man was downright exciting... who would even look at sweet shyam i that state.

of course, i never believed she saved him... he didn't need that. she touched a place in him and released him, let him emerge from his pain, believe and feel things... he too helped her touch and feel the woman in her, claim her right on this world. but their relationship was too deep to analyse in two lines... both needed the other equally and that was all. it was never about being good or bad. as you are so i take you, so i love you.

an exciting nonjudgmental affair deep within.

sometimes i wonder about this over stressing the smiling gentle man thing. i mean do we really crave such a man in even reality? time and time again women have found the complex hero with a beast in him more attractive. the outlaw, the spy with a thing for flings, the recluse with a broken heart. the bad 'un, the rebel. literature, movies, everywhere, a slightly dangerous streak in a man is exciting.

is this talk of the bland "good" man being what women want a myth being perpetuated by us... so we may never ever face the not so acchi bahus in ourselves? 😆

i loved that yellow green sari scene with shyam and asr. how could any woman want shyam? uff give me a bit of a beast any day.

and what a beast barun gave us.

their first meeting, i agree, was definitely a "beginning", not just a stand alone event. there was a recognition in it... and enough turbulence of emotion for a registering of each other.

both the actors got that layered subliminal communication loaded with subtext so so well. it was wonderful to just watch them and forget everything else. this idea is being attempted in at least four serials right now, but none of that richness anywhere.

thanks for liking the caps. the edits made me feel for the man, miss him madly.



starsarun thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
#10
I simply clicked the Like button coz there was no button of Love, Great, Fabulous, Beautiful...
I am in lack of words after reading this...