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..Khushi.. thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#61

Originally posted by: aish.

See in a normal scenario Ai would've left this as to each their own, but child marriage and stalking is not a matter of opinion. It's only a matter of what's right and wrong. And according to the Indian law, child marriage is banned and for a reason. I'd appreciate it if we could limit our discussion to India and not bring US into it as this show is set in India, hence being subject to Indian laws.

Now Khushi, you said stalking depends on the intent. Let's say two individuals A and B, are working together. Now A loves B and hence follows her/him around. A does not have any bad intention, neither will A molest or harass B. However, B is clearly uncomfortable as it is a violation of privacy(which also is a fundamental right in India). Now A's cleat intentions do not justify the actions.

India has a majority act, because it is believed that certain decisions, such as marriage, require an individual to understand the effects of such a decision upon his/her interest.
In law there is no opinion, there is only right and wrong.

Now as for the comparisons with GoT, a show which is set in medivial times when such practises were a common everyday norm. And if you have ever overheard GoT fans talk, we admire the bravery of the female warrior Khaleesi or the integrity of Jon Snow. Martial rape, which isn't even a crime according to Indian law, is recognised as one in Got. When Ramsay Bolton raped his own wife Sansa, it was called rape, not sex as it wasn't consensual. And Sanasa even got her revenge for the crime committed on her, and people rejoiced it. It showed Indians that even a husband is capable of raping his wife.



The intentions aren't clear or harmless if A knows that B is not comfortable with it and still follows. You see the difference?

No amount of justification can help the shit that's being dished out via GOT. No one knows whether or how many people will get inspired by the good that's shown in it or get inspired by the bad that's shown in it.

Edited by ..Khushi.. - 7 years ago
pomegranate thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#62

Originally posted by: ..RamKiJanaki..

I honestly have no interest in getting into this arguments because I already know where fans of this show stand on child marriage, but someone made the point that child marriage is legal in the US, and I have no idea where that's come from. I live in the US, and no, child marriage is certainly not legal here and if it ever happens, strict action is taken against the people involved.

In the United States, all but one state requires that a couple be 18 in order to marry without parental permission. Nebraska sets the age of majority at 19. Although a few states will waive this requirement if there is a pregnancy, teenage couples may still have to have court approval.

The only exception is in cases of teenage pregnancy, in which both partners are teenagers over the age of 14 (not one adult, one teenager), and if they both want to get married and both have the consent of their parents, they can file for court approval, and only if the court approves their appeal (each situation is different) do they have permission to marry.

Otherwise, anything else is considered child marriage, which is also considered a form of child abuse, and punishable by law.

Even in India, the legal age for women to marry is 18 and for men 21. As this show takes place in India, this is the age that must be respected and followed.

There is no opinion, no personal belief that goes into account regarding this. India is a democracy. It's ruled under one law, and yeah loopholes are there and people take advantage of the law when they can, but the law is there, and the law must be followed. It doesn't matter whether you believe child marriage is evil or not. It doesn't matter if your parents or grandparents had a child marriage and turned out 'fine'. It doesn't matter that you think child marriage is not a social evil. According to the law, it is. There is no two opinions about it. Believe it or not, I don't care, but people had better follow it because otherwise, they are considered criminal under law.

It's weird that divorce is being brought into this. Divorce isn't a social evil, whatever your opinion may be about it. Two consenting adults are free to marry whomever they wish, and they can divorce whomever they wish if they feel the marriage isn't working. That's not illegal because the law has given them the freedom to live the life they want.

As for teenage pregnancy, it's an unfortunate phenomenon and I agree it's a social evil that's becoming more common in our society. However, if the pregnancy occurs between two minors (under the age of 18), it's not illegal unless it's a case of rape. Two minors are allowed to have consensual sex. However, if an adult over the age of 18 has sex with a child under the age of 18, that is considered rape whether the sex was consensual or not, because an adult under law cannot under any circumstance have sex with a minor, consensual or not. That is the law, no matter what people believe.

Now, I don't know why the concept of sex has come up since PPK hasn't gone that far, thank God, but people here seem to have difficulty grasping the concept of child marriage. Fans of PPK keep saying the show doesn't have child marriage, but it does.

Did not an 18 year old woman marry a 9-year old boy? Did that or did that not happen?

I understand that the reason why it happened may have been 'innocent', but it did happen. That is something no one can argue against. A marriage did happen between them, and since one of the partners is a child, it's by definition called a child marriage, and thus, the show has child marriage.

This is a fact no one who's seen the show can deny.

Also, from where comes the believe that people who are condemning the show haven't seen it? Why would people criticize something without seeing it? Why would they even care? I've seen the show, and I know many people who have also, and nothing I've seen disproves my view that this show is promoting child marriage. If Ratan had been shown as a victim even once, if he'd been shown angry or confused for being in a marriage so young, or if Diya had been shown unhappy and guilty that she married a child, I might have changed my opinion, but nothing like that has happened.

I know there are many other regressive shows on TV, I'm not saying they're not, but we're discussing this show, and this show certainly has controversial content. No one can deny that. If it was up to me, I would wish for all other regressive shows to be banned too, but it's not that easy, and there are certainly people protesting other shows too, but I feel it's a step in the right direction that a channel has actually taken people's protests seriously. Perhaps from now on, directors and producers will think twice before coming up with a regressive concept again. Shows don't need to be super progressive if people aren't ready for it, but if they're at least not regressive, it would be tolerable.


US does not have cases where a 18 year old marries a 9 year old, otherwise the said 18 year old will be in jail. A nine year old is neither mature or rational enough to give consent to marriage, child marriage is legal for say an 16 year old with the consent from parents, or perhaps under spcial circumstances like pregnancy. if A child did get married otherwise, then it is under shady circumstances and murky laws. no way does US openly declare child marriage as legal and ok because like I've mentioned, it is a violation of child rights.
AnkurBaksi thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#63
I am very happy that this crap show has finally ended. It's very strange that this show was promoting a crime like child marriage & still some die-hard fans are supporting it 🤢 Such things are nothing but backward thinking.
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#64
Regarding the messages in shows, it's true to an extent that impressionable people do get affected from what they see. Whether that's practical or not is a whole new argument, but while some people watch TV for pure entertainment, others watch to learn something. There's all sorts of people in an audience, so it's the responsibility of the creative team of a show to have proper content.

Now, every show will have some kind of social evil to some extent, because it happens all the time in real life. Crimes are so rampant nowadays, they happen around us, whether they be rape, theft, drug/drinking abuse, child abuse, elderly abuse, prostitution, terrorism, murder, you name it. Horrific crimes take place in our society, so it's kind of impractical to make a show that has nothing bad happen.

Every show will have positive characters and negative characters. It's not always good vs. bad because most characters are going to be gray-shaded, but the positive characters are going to be fighting against some kind of social evil, and the negative characters are going to be perpetuating that evil. It's the responsibility of the creative team to send a message through their show that the social evil they're portraying is wrong and shouldn't happen.

Now, as mentioned by some people, not everyone is going to follow the good characters. There are some who think it's cool and trendy to follow the negative characters, because it's boring to be 'good', and if they believe that, that's on them. There's nothing a creative team could do to change those people's mindset, because no matter what they see or read, they already have a warped understanding of the world.

However, that doesn't mean the creative team should show whatever they want in the name of entertainment simply because a portion of the audience is going to support the negative characters no matter what. They still have a responsibility to send a proper message, because believe it or not, the youth of today's generation learns more from media than they do from home. The lifestyle of people has changed. Parents don't spend enough time with their kids at home, so they don't impart the proper knowledge to their kids. Thus, they learn from what's available at their fingertips, which is media. They watch shows they shouldn't be watching. They play video games that are too graphic and violent. They have access to content that should be restricted to adults.

It's not right, but it happens, and thus media has a responsibility to impart a proper message in each of the shows and movies it produces. Does it happen all the time? No, but that doesn't mean we all shouldn't protest against shows that send the wrong message. Not only this one, but every other show that has regressive content. It's our responsibility to society, to our youth.
IPSO_FACTO thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#65

Originally posted by: ..Khushi..



<font size="2" face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">Is it though? But it's legal in many states of the US. Even people as young as 7- 8 year get legally married. Who gets to decide what's crime and what's not? What about the divorces that happen between grown ups? And teenage pregnancies? And million other damaging things are shown on TV?
</font>


A marriage between two kids aka below 18 years of age is not illegal but both should be underage, the people i.e. The parents of such kids will be punished under the law and the wedding is legal until they both attain majority and then they can decide whether they want to stay married or part ways.
But, im PPK one of the party is an adult so that makes this marriage illegal and promoting an illegal concept and trying to sell it off as innocent friendship is just unbelievable. Here the problem is not age gap but the fact that one of the party is an adult and other is not. If Ratan was 18 and would marry a 100 year old woman, then no one would bat an eye.
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#66

Originally posted by: ..Khushi..



Oh there's another article too, mentioning the states where it's legal. Will share somedday when I feel like making effort to find the article.


There are loopholes, I'm not saying there are not, but the loopholes only exist for teenagers. A child is considered a teenager from 13 until 18, and during those years, a court may legally allow marriage if a teenage girl is pregnant, that too with parental consent only and if the partner is also a teenager. It's very very rare for court to approve the marriage between a minor and major (over 18) because it's considered pedophilia whether sex has happened or not. The only instance I have ever heard of court approving such a marriage was when the girl and guy got married in another country where it was legal, and returned to the US to legalize their marriage. Even then it was very difficult for them to prove that their marriage was consensual.

But if a situation like PPK, where a marriage between an 18 year old woman and a 9-year old boy happened in the US, the marriage would not be recognized as legal at all. A 9-year old boy is much too young to even be considered a teenager. He's still a small child, not even in puberty. He has no freedom to consent to anything, let alone marriage.
Edited by ..RamKiJanaki.. - 7 years ago
668837 thumbnail
Posted: 7 years ago
#67
Khushi, the difference is, GoT doesn't show such things with positivity. It' doesn't romanticise it.
Baelish, in love with a much younger Sansa, was shown in disgust. Her brother asked him to keep away from her. It wasn't shown to be cute.

I want to know if you watch got and tell me what it trashes out.

Also, you're in dire need of a class on Indian law. You're basically justifying a crime at this moment.
..Khushi.. thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#68
"Proper" is such a subjective word. What's proper for me might not be proper for someone else and vice verse.

The sense of right and wrong comes from within. Ask girls to "dress" responsibly otherwise. No?

If kids are learning from online media than people who are voicing out here also need to voice out against shows like GOT. No one knows who will get inspired in what way from such shows.
IPSO_FACTO thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#69
If you think child marriages are not horrid then see the number of maternal mortality in the country and one of the reasons of the same was child marriage. I am working on the same issue so please, dont get all preachy that people who are commenting here do not make an effort to shape the world outside this forum or fiction. How do you know what contributions we make or not?

And, justifying child marriage is as bad as the ones involved in the crime.
..Khushi.. thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#70

Originally posted by: aish.

Khushi, the difference is, GoT doesn't show such things with positivity. It' doesn't romanticise it.

Baelish, in love with a much younger Sansa, was shown in disgust. Her brother asked him to keep away from her. It wasn't shown to be cute.

I want to know if you watch got and tell me what it trashes out.

Also, you're in dire need of a class on Indian law. You're basically justifying a crime at this moment.



Positive and negative is again a subjective. What's negative to you might not be the same to others so stop justifying the shit that's shown.

I am not justifying a crime, you are dissing and supporting crime in fictional shows (selectively, as per choice).

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