~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 27

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

I really don't think Yudhishtira insulted Bheeshma on purpose. Yudhishtira was a whiny, insecure man, but he wasn't a fool. I think it might've been his way of splitting the difference by asking Bheeshma to pick one.

Bheeshma of course was smarter and picked th one man guaranteed to raise hackles. Krishna was no king, not an elite, and had defeated most of them in battle. He didn't build th empire himself because no on would've accepted him. And then, he got first honor!

Then, Bheeshma needled both Shishupal and Krishna and made sure the death happened at Krishna's hands. Or course it became a big deal.

Also, I do think it quite possible Bheeshma would know Yudhishtira would do something like that and had planned exactly this to enrage the kings. The Shishupal outrage could not have been planned, but the rest of it, yes.

I always thought that Bheeshm suggested Krishna since the latter was detrimental in success of Rajsuya.

But now that you say this actually looks probable

Krishna selection was actually a masterplan by Bheeshm to ensure that Rajsuya celebration is spoiled.

I think had Duryodhan won the war and had his progeny hearing the story, this meeting would probably had been the central focus where evil Yudhishtir invited Kuru clan n elders just to disrespect them(something like dice hall is now)

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

@Deepikagupta

If you want to learn what a loathsome man Bheeshma actually was, you can do so from Bheeshma's own words in Anushasana Parva.

Is it part of MB ?? Then I will definitely search

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Is it part of MB ?? Then I will definitely search

Yes. It's a huge section. Old man was vile. Arjuna might've loved him, but it wasn't returned.

See this is definitely not written anywhere. No one is written to be good or bad, except them being mentioned as the incarnation of good or bad and that is definitely based on certain biases which Janmayey might have had or maybe even the later ones. We judge by the actions of characters. This is history not a fiction that we would have all the details, in history we only get to know the stuffs which become public and not the hidden plottings

Arjun definitely loved Bheeshm. He considered Bheeshm (n Drona) his father figure, yet he was never allowed to complain against Kauravas to him. Kauravas weren't like playing prank on them, they were doing murder attempts. Arjun agreeing to his elders and not complaining to Bheeshm show that even he had some doubts on his neutrality (forget bias towards Arjun/Pandavas)

This is a completely wrong notion that Bheeshm was capable of killing Pandavas. If you say during their childhood, Bheeshm would definitely not do that directly since it would raise suspicion into the minds of the state, if you say about the war, he would have been around late nineties or early hundreds at that time. Howsoever good health he might have had he would definitely not be capable to kill much younger and more swift warriors who were always strategically positioned.

Not revealing Karna Kunti relation would have actually helped him in his plans. Revealing could have lead to Pandavas accepting Karna (before the dice hall they could have still done that if Karna asked for forgiveness) which would mean his side loses a very important support/frontline minion. Secondly it would expose him as a failure since the marriages were fixed by his approval. The risk could have still been taken, but it would have had no favourable results. Sages supported Kunti's claim that the kids are all divine born, she would have said that Karna was born by SunGod and settled down any public uproar

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But how are you sure that Bhishma knew about Karna since he met him? He mentioned it when he was on deathbed, he says he was told by Vyasa and Narada, Sanjaya is the one narrating this to Dhritrastra, Who could have told Dury about Karna and Dury would have told Yudi, resulting in Pandava's acceptance of defeat

Point being, how are we analyzing Bhishma's character from this particular angle when we don't know if it is true or interpolation considering Bhishma is talking from bed of arrows?

And Why attempt to kill Bhima? He couldn't be King, they would have planned to attack Yudi, if Kingdom was the reason for attack on Dury, it is stated Karna, Sakuni and Dury were involved in it, why wouldn't Vyasa talk about Bhishma's involvement?

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

See this is definitely not written anywhere. No one is written to be good or bad, except them being mentioned as the incarnation of good or bad and that is definitely based on certain biases which Janmayey might have had or maybe even the later ones. We judge by the actions of characters. This is history not a fiction that we would have all the details, in history we only get to know the stuffs which become public and not the hidden plottings

Arjun definitely loved Bheeshm. He considered Bheeshm (n Drona) his father figure, yet he was never allowed to complain against Kauravas to him. Kauravas weren't like playing prank on them, they were doing murder attempts. Arjun agreeing to his elders and not complaining to Bheeshm show that even he had some doubts on his neutrality (forget bias towards Arjun/Pandavas)

This is a completely wrong notion that Bheeshm was capable of killing Pandavas. If you say during their childhood, Bheeshm would definitely not do that directly since it would raise suspicion into the minds of the state, if you say about the war, he would have been around late nineties or early hundreds at that time. Howsoever good health he might have had he would definitely not be capable to kill much younger and more swift warriors who were always strategically positioned.

Not revealing Karna Kunti relation would have actually helped him in his plans. Revealing could have lead to Pandavas accepting Karna (before the dice hall they could have still done that if Karna asked for forgiveness) which would mean his side loses a very important support/frontline minion. Secondly it would expose him as a failure since the marriages were fixed by his approval. The risk could have still been taken, but it would have had no favourable results. Sages supported Kunti's claim that the kids are all divine born, she would have said that Karna was born by SunGod and settled down any public uproar

I have even read how people insults lord krishna by calling him womanizer & others words which I can't say here.

How much he had been hated 2 support pandavas & Draupadi.

Bheesam 2 phir bhi bhagwaan nhi tha.

I am not assuming Bheeshm knew it since the beginning. I am simply listing down the reasons why would he prefer Duryodhan over Pandavas. Even if you remove the Karna thing, other things are still there for favouring Duryodhan

Bheeshm isn't mentioned because Bheeshm wasn't a part of the direct plan, he was just the hidden mastermind, how would Vyas know about it without divinity? He just knows the things which are apparent.

And no Bheem wasn't the only one tried to be killed, just that this one got maximum success. It's clearly mentioned that they continued with the plan and Yuyutsu informed them in advance. Aside Its very natural to kill all of them separately rather than at once

D link which u shared to me today regarding Yudi praising draupadi in dice game one

Kya us main anushan parva mil jayega ?

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

D link which u shared to me today regarding Yudi praising draupadi in dice game one

Kya us main anushan parva mil jayega ?

Haan you will have to Search in it. Poori book hai wahan

But Dury, Karna and Sakuni didn't conspire openly, I am just saying the man who can plan everything in advance can actually kill Pandavas in forest before they come to Hastinapur, or order people to do it, he won't involve Dury because assassination attempt has to be precise, how does one trust a child?

They could have made life difficult for Pandavas by not giving them the proper education and weapon training but I don't see differential treatment in upbringing of Pandavas and Kauravas

What stopped them from crowning Dhruti and making Dury a legal heir?

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Haan you will have to Search in it. Poori book hai wahan

Ok ?