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NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

^^ oh ok got your point


But why would the post dice hall exile be called Arjun's exile, that was mainly Yudhishtir and Krishnaa's exile right


Human brain works that way, there are two different exile periods with two different numbers

One would associate 12 with Arjun's exile and 13 with dice hall exile


The probability of 13 years being called 13 months is more than 12 years being called 13 months or vice versa

For example 36 years and we call it 36 months, instead of 3 years, why? 36 months goes with 36 years, even though 3 years is the same thing but 36 months clicks in your brain faster in relation to 36 years

Again, I believe in everything

FlauntPessimism thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: NoraSM


Human brain works that way, there are two different exile periods with two different numbers

One would associate 12 with Arjun's exile and 13 with dice hall exile


The probability of 13 years being called 13 months is more than 12 years being called 13 months or vice versa

For example 36 years and we call it 36 months, instead of 3 years, why? 36 months goes with 36 years, even though 3 years is the same thing but 36 months clicks in your brain faster in relation to 36 years

Again, I believe in everything

Yes I agreed to you.


Although I believe the Arjun exile to be 12 years as well, but 36 years post Mahabharata seems highly improbable to me. Because they didn't meet Parikshit during leaving ask Subhadra to look after Parikshit etc.


Why would they do this to a 35 year old man


Aside the time for Vanprasth in Hindu texts in 50. They would have left around same age since Yudhishtir was Dharmaraj. 36 years post war would mean 75+ age for everyone

Chiillii thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

In my opinion Arjun's first exile was 12 months.but the second exile that all.Pandaavs went to was 13 years.


Why was Arjun's first exile 12 months. Arjun was the primary protector of Pandavs when it came to fighting armies. Bhima was the protector in terms.of single enemies. That is why Arjun was commander and Bhima like a body guard.


Like I mentioned earlier, only After Rajasuya Yudhishtir became an.independent king in his own merit. Till then he was just a extended dominion of Hstinapur, but without the protection of Hastinapur. He was at the mercy of Panchal army. He had Jarasandh baying for his blood for siding with Krishna and he had treacherous Duryodhan onnthe other side.

On top of it Robbers were looting and plundering. Nagas had the entire khandav forest in their control denying any access to Pandava. Most importqntly Pandavas did not have a well trained battle ready army of warriors of their own


IP was in a very precarious position for Arjun to go gallivanting for 12 years.


If you forget the exile part and only look objectively Arjun does 4 things in this exile. He succeeds in 3, but fails in the fourth

1. Has a brief encounter with naga ulupi who happens to be of Kouravya clan. Kunti's biological mother was also from the same clan. So Arjun is technically reaxhing out to relatives for brokering peace with Nagas at Khandavvan


2. Marries Chitrangada from manipur. The name itself would tell you what Manipur must be famous for. Krishna built dwarka with the help of syamantak Mani. Precious gems and jewellery from manipur would help fill the coffers at IP nicely.

3. Then he tries to meet Parshuram but is unable to do so as he has gone somewhere else. This must be to gain some divine weapons from him. But this does not happen.

4. Next he meets Krishna and marries his sister and cements the formal alliance with Dwarka, which was only informal so far. From here as well he gets a huge dowry for Indraprasth.


He had no plans of roaming here and there. He soecifically went to places planned with clear intent


If he left on day of the year, he spent 15 days in sealing the deal with Ulupi's clan.Then left for Manipur. He marries Chitra and leaves to meet Parshuram as soon as she conceives. Parshuram is a no go so returns back, stays for the baby!s birth and in the 11th month reaches dwarka straight. Waits a couple of weeks and then kidnaps subhadra marries her and probably spends a month more and returns back.


He had gone for specific tasks. For eg. The kings who came.for draupadi swayamvar from distant corners of India, would they have taken years to reach Kampilya. No. They were coming for a specific event. They would have reached the place within weeks if not days.


But the exile after Dice game has to be 13 years.


Reason 1. Abhimanyu , Ghatothkach Iravan and Uttara would be toddlers.

Reason 2. The kings who supported Pandavas were the second generation guys who had just gained the thrones in their own kingdom. None of them were in a position to fight at the time. Shishupal had just died leaving behind a lot of enemies and Dhrishtaketu came to power. Jarasandh had died and his son Sahdev was fighting his own battles in magadha. Salwa had severly damaged dwarka. Kekayas were having their own problems. Uttara was toddler who could not be married immediately to seal matsya pandav alliance. Panchalas I believe may have been ok. But they were the only ones then.

NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Yes I agreed to you.


Although I believe the Arjun exile to be 12 years as well, but 36 years post Mahabharata seems highly improbable to me. Because they didn't meet Parikshit during leaving ask Subhadra to look after Parikshit etc.


Why would they do this to a 35 year old man


Aside the time for Vanprasth in Hindu texts in 50. They would have left around same age since Yudhishtir was Dharmaraj. 36 years post war would mean 75+ age for everyone


50 is too young considering every ruler Dhritrashtra- Drupad ruled over their 50s

What I believe is that they retired after Krishna's death, it is stated they crowned Parikshit as a king, He asked Subhadra to take care of Vajra not Parikshit



This son of thy son will be the king of the Kurus. The survivor of the Yadus, Vajra, has been made a king. Parikshit will rule in Hastinapura, while the Yadava prince, Vajra, will rule in Shakraprastha. He should be protected by thee. Never set thy heart on unrighteousness


I believe he was asking her to protect Vajra's interest and let him rule instead of repeating what happened between Pandavas and Kauravas, I mean she couldn't protect him physically

Agni_Jytsona thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: NoraSM


50 is too young considering every ruler Dhritrashtra- Drupad ruled over their 50s

What I believe is that they retired after Krishna's death, it is stated they crowned Parikshit as a king, He asked Subhadra to take care of Vajra not Parikshit



This son of thy son will be the king of the Kurus. The survivor of the Yadus, Vajra, has been made a king. Parikshit will rule in Hastinapura, while the Yadava prince, Vajra, will rule in Shakraprastha. He should be protected by thee. Never set thy heart on unrighteousness


I believe he was asking her to protect Vajra's interest and let him rule instead of repeating what happened between Pandavas and Kauravas, I mean she couldn't protect him physically

See this is what i was talking about with regards to vajra yudhishtra clearly gave indraprasth to his daughters son

Chiillii thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Yup I believe so to. Vajra was Yudhishtir and Krishna's grandson. Anirudha must have had onky daughter. So Bhanu's son is designated as heir and also adopted by aniruddh to do his crematory rights.

Heir is adopted not just for giving him the right to property but also to give him the duty of doing funeral and shradha.


I dont think Vajra was aniruddhs.


That is why the telling statement to subhadra. You are going to be the one with influence. Parikshit will be the king of kuru and my grandson born to my daughter a yadava. Make sure parikshit doesnt do to him what kauravas did to us

FlauntPessimism thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Yup I believe so to. Vajra was Yudhishtir and Krishna's grandson. Anirudha must have had onky daughter. So Bhanu's son is designated as heir and also adopted by aniruddh to do his crematory rights.

Heir is adopted not just for giving him the right to property but also to give him the duty of doing funeral and shradha.


I dont think Vajra was aniruddhs.


That is why the telling statement to subhadra. You are going to be the one with influence. Parikshit will be the king of kuru and my grandson born to my daughter a yadava. Make sure parikshit doesnt do to him what kauravas did to us

But then to be honest Kauravas might have done bad at the beginning, but after Varnavrat, they actually gave them state under their recognition, it was their attempt for complete sovereignty for Kauravas land (at least as they saw it) which caused the issue

I am sure Parikshit would have done the same had Vajra tried to completely free Indraprasth from him

Chiillii thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

At one point Duryodhan tells dhritrashtra after Rajasuya I think. Soon enough Yudhishtir will subjugate us and we who have already lived as royals what will be our status, what will happen to me and my brothers. We will be dependent on his mercy to live. That is not acceptable to me.


That was the problem I guess. Duryodhan just never wanted what he believed was his right to be taken away. He had presumed that by giving a barren region, yudhishtir was assigned permanently to a lesser status than him. But Yudhishtir's Rajasuya got to him. It wasnt just a simple Rajasuya with a proclamation of independence.

He showed off too much. Well that was the objective he started with. When he heard from narada about different extravagant courts of Indra and Harishchandra etc.


He showed of his wealth, Draupadi, his Maya palace. All that unnecessary showcase of glory.


Then the public nautanki of asking Bhishma who should be guest of honor, when by protocol it should be Bhishma because he was the head of family. What would Bhishma do, if he is asked publicly in the event should you be guest of honor. He has no choice but to say, Vyasa ko banao Krishna ko banao. They deserve more than me.

In his mind he would have been pissed that, why you are asking me, instead of giving it to me automatically.


On top of it Shishupal actually rubbed it in by calling Bhishma impotent for getting bypassed like that


No wonder everyone got upset. Not just Duryodhan

Remember Bhishma's sarcastic remark, Yudhishtir is the authority on Dharma.


Many people.lose their sympathy for Yudhishtir in the dice game. He lost mine in Rajasuya.

That was why Vyasa warned him about the war. He implied that all the wealth and regalia that you have badgered around and people you have stoked anger in. You have made enemies out of people. And some time in future when they can they will retaliate.


So Yudhiahtir makes the dumb oath of not offending kouravas anymore.

But he already had offended everyone.

Edited by Chiillii - 5 years ago
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Posted: 5 years ago

Bheeshma was also taunting Krishna. He basically tells the sabha that you guys make up your own minds on what kind of a man Krishna is. Bheeshma stops Bheema from killing Shishupal. Bheema killing would've been legal because he was yuvraj. Krishna killing was unacceptable to everyone because Shishupal was acknowledged as a prince, and Krishna an irritant.


Bheeshma really was provoking problems.

1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

Also, in Yudhishtira's defense at rajasuya... there were many senior people, and Bheeshma was the one person who could not be given the honor.


Look at his role in everything that happened. There was no intervention in any of the childhood issues. I'm certain lac house didn't happen without Bheeshma's knowledge. Then, the Pandavas ended up with a crappy piece of land.


Yudhishtira should've been crazy to give first honor to Bheeshma after all that. Means Hastinapuri would have power over Indraprastha.


Yeah, Yudhishtira could've simply picked any one of the elders. Vyasa, for example. Or Drupada. The request for recommendation WAS probably a mild taunt. Or given Yudhishtira's idiocy, it might even have been his way of ingratiating himself with Bheeshma WHILE giving first honor to someone else.


Bheeshma then picked Krishna, the one person guaranteed to enrage the crowd. Bheeshma sang Krishna's praises out of one corner of his mouth and told the crowd to decide for themselves what kind of a man Krishna was. Bheeshma then proceeded to make sure the killing of Shishupal would be seen as illegal.


This also might explain why Bheeshma never informed Vyasa about the impending dice game. Old man wanted it to happen

Edited by HearMeRoar - 5 years ago

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