Karna: Does He Deserve So Much Respect??[DT Note Page 15] - Page 5

yes, sangeeta, it is indeed all about perspective. some are clear while some are not so much clear.

Originally posted by: shlvrv_Niva

@ Amrita - I love how u put ur word across humbly without hurting anyone's sentiment. Well this was the only thing I wanted to say in this post, But the part about feminism got me.

The feminist in me holds most males in MB responsible for Drau's condition. Karna's words are talked about more, because he is right there in the middle, Pandav's ka bhai, but Dury ka dost. I can't love him, I can't hate him. But I do hate some of his acts.

What I do believe is that unless Karna fans love him while accepting that he was dead wrong in Drau's case, they are basically pulling down the feminist movement. Some things - statements or actions, should never be justified.

As far as the question about who was the better worrier among KaJu - humble debate is what I seek, but biased arguments full of hatred and rudeness is what I generally see, so I remain far away from these topics. Only because u have put it so nicely, that I decided to participate in this thread. And so far the arguments are coming in good, I hope it stays that way.

Thanks dear Nivu for commenting. 😊

Originally posted by: TheWatcher

Her manner at the Swayamvar was obviously wrong. She had all the right in the world to choose or deny the contestant, but, everybody knew that Karna was a Suta-putra, why didnt her brother tell him privately to not take part.

Draupadi could have used another reason for rejecting him or maybe give no reason at all, why didn't she reject him when he stood up, she rejected him when he was about to shoot and everybody, including the Pandavas, knew that Karna will strike it. She pointed at his Caste, on which he was constantly denied/insulted, he had a wound which was scraped by Draupadi, it was natural for him to get angry and feel insulted.

Did Karna dis-respect her during Swayamvar?, no he did not.

I guess this is a reply to my post. Sadly I am still not convinced. I know that many of the Karna admirers are not against Draupadi refusing him, but the words she said! But that is not very wrong. Firstly it is Dwapar Yug and there you just cannot say I dont want to marry him. and @bold Firstly Karna was not invited in the Swayamvar. Why did he come to participate? I am not saying that he CANNOT participate, he has right. But he was not invited.
And yes, when do you expect her to reject him? She rejected him when he took the bow and tied the string to it. (that is what I have read and not like StarB where Karna is just about to leave the arrow.) So Panchali just said she does not want to marry a Suta. And as far as I have seen, people (in Starb) also calls each other "Rajkumar" "brahman Yuvan" "brahman Devta" so when Draupadi said it.. that was wrong? I am sorry but no logic behind this.

I consider his mistake in the VH to be the sole one, it cannot be argued.

For me, Karna, in his whole life, did only one mistake and that was during the VH.

I am finding citation in which Karna protested during the Lac house plot or he did not agree with the plot. Some experts who have KMG and other accurate translations do always say that Karna did not agree with the Lac house incident, its just a matter of finding a citation.

When did I say she deserved it?, you interpreted my post in a wrong way.

I said she was wrong during the swayamvar and Karna was wrong during the VH. Each of the one does not gets nullified. Both are mistakes, not only one.

Originally posted by: Paro95

Karna is not black agreed but hez not white either. His statement at VH was (as many ppl like to beleive) an impulsive statement. Ok,but wat ws d reason behind such an impluse!? His male ego that how cn a mere lady reject him. It is the fault in the society that men think women hv no rights to reject them n karna fell prey to this mindset of the society. Not nly him but almost evryone one frm d epic compromised on the emotions of ladies...

But yes this is also true that he ws charitable n i respect him a lottt fr that fact...ppl wen i hear stuff like draupadi deserved what she got, she dint deserve karna,she should have really been stripped,she had fantasies fr him blah blah blah, i feel horrified. Draupadi is famed for her self respect n hw cn any women with self respect love or respect a person who calls her a w***e???Like niva said,its like saying boys will b boys n all. N the worst part is statements like these come from women mostly. How cn our country progress with this kind of mindset...

Sorry fr my overlong post but this issue is nt merely confined to fan wars but it is a very serious sensitive n prevalent issue which needs serious thinking...

Originally posted by: Brishti_Sarkar

. I guess this is a reply to my post. 😕 Sadly I am still not convinced. I know that many of the Karna admirers are not against Draupadi refusing him, but the words she said! But that is not very wrong. Firstly it is Dwapar Yug and there you just cannot say I dont want to marry him. and @bold Firstly Karna was not invited in the Swayamvar. Why did he come to participate? I am not saying that he CANNOT participate, he has right. But he was not invited.
And yes, when do you expect her to reject him? She rejected him when he took the bow and tied the string to it. (that is what I have read and not like StarB where Karna is just about to leave the arrow.) So Panchali just said she does not want to marry a Suta. And as far as I have seen, people (in Starb) also calls each other "Rajkumar" "brahman Yuvan" "brahman Devta" so when Draupadi said it.. that was wrong? I am sorry but no logic behind this.

He was invited, his name was there during the list of contestants, it was a matter of will whether he wished to take part or not.

You said that it is Dwapur Yug and she cannot just say ' I cant marry him', but, the same thing can be applied to the dialogue by Draupadi too, she did say that she will not wed a Suta-putra, that is contradicting your statement in every possible way, first you said that it is Dwapur Yug and ladies cannot reject like that and OTOH, Draupadi did exactly which you are prohibiting by your logic.

Please read the para which describes the event. Star Bharata did show correctly, Karna picked up the bow, strung it, took up the arrow and got into posture of hitting the eye, everybody, including the Pandavas knew that Karna will hit it, this is when Draupadi rejects him.

He had no problem in being called a Suta, the fact his caste was used as a reason for rejecting made him angry. Being called a Suta is no problem, but when you are looked down upon because of it, then it becomes a problem.

Can we deny that Karna's statement in RS before VH was out of revenge? No we can't.

Nothing in this world - norm, revenge, hate for someone, love for someone, loyalty to someone, freindship to someone, ownership over someone, or pain of personal wounds --- absolutely nothing can justify sexual harrasement of a woman.

Good people then did not justify it (Krishna, Bheesma, drona etc.) - It was not a norm then, and good people today do not justify it. Because someone's personal wounds can't be the reason to make a lady naked in a hall in front of hundreds of people.

This is not right. Logic can be put into anything, but when pain of a female (Draupadi's and that of other ladies of all times) can be justified using ANY argument whatsoever, then every female would be denied the Right to make a mistake. in our patriarchal society "He did it because she said so" is license to males to do anything.

working for women and children in particular, I feel that Draupadi's case is never a matter of justification at all. It has to be seen emotionally and not logically.

you know the one walking in tunnel can see very limited kind of small light. The direction of eyes is only riveted towards those rays of light. Loving Karna is great - love him for his reality, love him for his humanity, love him for his struggles, for his worrier skills, love him and love him more. But don't lay the blame at Draupadi's feet for VH is all I am saying.

Having said that - I loved reading all your posts and POV's. It was lovely to read it in friendly manner, and now I would bow out because in my humble opinion Draupadi's one mistake of unintentionally scrapping on Karna's wound is being used as a shield for him, and so its not a thread for me anymore.

Love u all, and peace - may the women kind in our times, find more justice!

Originally posted by: shlvrv_Niva

Can we deny that Karna's statement in RS before VH was out of revenge? No we can't.

Nothing in this world - norm, revenge, hate for someone, love for someone, loyalty to someone, freindship to someone, ownership over someone, or pain of personal wounds --- absolutely nothing can justify sexual harrasement of a woman.

Good people then did not justify it (Krishna, Bheesma, drona etc.) - It was not a norm then, and good people today do not justify it. Because someone's personal wounds can't be the reason to make a lady naked in a hall in front of hundreds of people.

This is not right. Logic can be put into anything, but when pain of a female (Draupadi's and that of other ladies of all times) can be justified using ANY argument whatsoever, then every female would be denied the Right to make a mistake. in our patriarchal society "He did it because she said so" is license to males to do anything.

working for women and children in particular, I feel that Draupadi's case is never a matter of justification at all. It has to be seen emotionally and not logically.

you know the one walking in tunnel can see very limited kind of small light. The direction of eyes is only riveted towards those rays of light. Loving Karna is great - love him for his reality, love him for his humanity, love him for his struggles, for his worrier skills, love him and love him more. But don't lay the blame at Draupadi's feet for VH is all I am saying.

Having said that - I loved reading all your posts and POV's. It was lovely to read it in friendly manner, and now I would bow out because in my humble opinion Draupadi's one mistake of unintentionally scrapping on Karna's wound is being used as a shield for him, and so its not a thread for me anymore.

Love u all, and peace - may the women kind in our times, find more justice!

Originally posted by: Brishti_Sarkar

Well written! First of all, high 5! Even I read Mahabharata the first time in Class V in Bengali when I was 11 years old, or 10. And sadly my teacher was so very fond of what Tagore and others wrote on the text and kept on telling us about that, she did not complete the text with us. Thus, I read it myself. Before that my grandfather told me stories and all, and I had a thin illustrated Mahabharata in Bengali.
Amrita, I am sorry to say but the Mahabharata is the only way you can know Mahabharata. No facebook, no India Forums or nothing of which I or any other person says. (until you are talking to Ved Vyas which is umm.. impossible.) Ok, I don't have complete bad views about any character in the epic. That includes Karna. I am an Arjuna fan, and I dislike Karna or sometimes hate him but I respect some of his deeds in some places of the story! Atleast he had some amount of human quality. (Duryodhana too had some, but Karna had more for sure.)
And I agree with you, in the Draupadi case. Your statement was SO TRUE. Everybody thinks Panchali rejected Karna because he loved Arjun? What crap is that! That was by Starbharat as Frappie said in the first page! I don't blame her for rejecting Karna. I feel that that was not even close to anything wrong. If she does not like someone, does not feel like marrying one, Sutaputra or Kshatriya she can say no. Anyways, not extending coz this has been talked about many times.
But actually Karna has done more of bad than good, and his excuses for doing wrong is not convincing according to me. So, I dont like him.I am sorry if I offended anybody. But one more thing, I hate it when any character is unnecessarily bashed! Panchaali and Arjuna, Karna, all have been bashed unnecesarilly in many places (in and outside IF)! That is horrible!

Thanks for commenting.