Karna: Does He Deserve So Much Respect??[DT Note Page 15] - Page 3

Originally posted by: Paro95

@niva big hug dearie...this is precisely how i feel but was feeling to lazy to type i guess we hv some pichle jaman ka naata😉

@riti agreed pandavas were at fault too specially yudi. He ws d main culprit of being soo gulliable to hv been lured into the game by shakuni. Regarging BANS,wat i feel is that they have lost their father n the only person who could fill that void was their elder bro. Throughout their lives yudi treated them as his childrn rather than brothers. So considering the sensitivity of relationships during dwapara yug,i guess there was no chance that they could hv disobeyed their elder brother. Yaa u cn argue that dusshy ws also obeyin his bro by disrobing drau, here it comes to the difference of the mindsets of yudi n duri, one is sheer saintly stupidity n other is evil power hungry cruelity. Plus i guess this issue is a conflict between swadharma n adharma which i guess will be more clear post geeta.

N regarding redemption yaa pandavas did redeem themselves. God is not partial. He gave evrybdy the chance but they dint see it. The one who worked hard,faced hardships got the divine knwledge is taunted of being the so called favorite...

Coming back to karna, i m really srry but i have never heard that he stayed on wid duri cos he wanted to redeem by choosing the loosing side. I always heard that he really did beleive in duris cause n stayed back because of his trust n indebtness to his frnd.if otherwise, i wld be egar to see the citations.

When i meant that choosing to be in loosing side was his redemption. I didnt mean that he stick to loosing side for that reason. He stayed on dury side for loyality thats true, but he had the chance of getting kingdom and giving it to dury which he refused...isnt that strange that he refused that ..which could clearly help his friend...

here is citation for above statement i made-

" If king Yudhishthira, of virtuous soul and well-controlled senses, cometh to know me as the firstborn son of Kunti, he will never accept the kingdom. If, again, O slayer of Madhu, this mighty and swelling empire becometh mine. I shall, O repressor of foes, certainly make it over to Duryodhana only. Let Yudhishthira of virtuous soul become king for ever. He that hath Hrishikesa for his guide, and Dhananjaya and that mighty car-warrior Bhima for his combatants, as also Nakula and Sahadeva, and the sons of Draupadi, is fit, O Madhava, to rule over the whole earth."

And yaa some ppl also say he was sorry n apologised to her aftr he found out she was his SIL. But wat b4 that?? Hadnt he caused pain to her b4 that n why feel remorse only wen u find out the true relation...

But still having said all this i agree that there are respectable sides to his personality, but imo they dont compensate fr the adharma

Originally posted by: Arijit007

the watcher, yup, he consulted with karna indeed, but i have no idea why karna goes with every evil idea of durry? why he didn't tried to stop him? because of friendship?

Good question, I think Karna never considered himself to be equal to Duryodhana, hence he never tried to correct him. if you read his later conversations, he frequently said that he knew Duryodhana was wrong in every step of his life. The reason I provided can be used - though with a pinch of salt.

Thanks fr d citation riti...it clearly shws that he knew yudi wld b a bettr king than himself or duri...

Originally posted by: riti4u

😊

good to read your view on character Karna. You stated all those reasons for which Karna is infamous and famous for.

everyone has their own likes and dislikes from epic. Some are induced from the way various people have introduced characters to us in their own way of understanding it.

I connected to Karna from childhood with a poem that i read in school and he sort of became a character that I was curious to know about... Right or wrong? Probably I was too young to understand it then😊.. but indeed he made his way to this heart .. Honestly speaking when I started liking him..I had no clue of his role in draupadi's VH ... Probably if I had known initially may be I might have not respected him that much... He was definately wrong there and there is no doubt about that...then why do i respect him and love him so much ..reason is because I kind of try to understand this complex character and depth in him rather than just focussing on what he uttered the day when even righteous ones were wrong ...

Was he jealous of Arjun? Well , I dont call that jealousy... may be he had this urge of proving his capabilities which otherwise were degraded in society in name of his lower caste... Again this is an interpretation which might vary from person to person...

We do sympathise with draupadi during VH incident.. all of us despite of our preferences in character...but does anyone sympathise with that man who too felt like being disrobed in rangbhoomi .. I am surely not equating things here...definately not... but if 100 % sympathies are given to draupadi... why cant we even give 5% of that to a person who just probably only wanted respect... Respect ? Respect is what he asked for... he never asked for a kingdom.. True respect is what he was disrobed of...that day..and when duryodhana stood up for him that day..we can surely understand why was he so devoted in this friendship..

As you said ..his deeds in the end surpassed his wrong doings .. he could have very easily given kingdom offered to him to duryodhana...But he knew he was wrong...isnt that redemption itself...

Anyways I think i wrote quite long reply here... but I would just say... He deserves respect which he never got in his lifetime...Atleast his death gives him that respect...

this can be never ending debate Amrita if we try to counter every argument in favor or against karna, thus would only say that I am glad that you voiced out your opinion on character. I like honest views and respect that. There is nothing to feel offended about..

Originally posted by: TheWatcher

As Vrish mentioned, Karna did not really plot with the Lakshagriha, he just went with it.

But, his hate for the Pandavas does have a reason, no hate can be one sided. After Karna matched/excelled Arjuna during the Rangbhoomi, Arjuna was angry and he took an oath of killing Karna right there, now let me think, what was the reason for this outburst?, can only Karna's outburst be highlighted?, no. below is the citation of Arjuna taking an oath.

... " Arjuna, after this, deeming himself disgraced, said unto Karna stationed amidst the brothers like unto a cliff, 'That path which the unwelcome intruder and the uninvited talker cometh to, shall be thine, O Karna, for thou shall be slain by me.' ..."

And no, Karna did not give the idea to Duryodhana to imprison Krishna, it was Duryodhana's own idea - which he consulted with Karna.

Towards the end, it was made clear by Karna that he did not wanted to humiliate the Pandavas, he could have easily done that by accepting the throne- passing it onto Duryodhana and send them to exile. He just wanted a fair fight for the world to see his prowess/valor

Originally posted by: -Archu-

Amrita ,i used to read and comment on your Female centered posts and knew that you are a fan of Droupathy,Its great to know that you do have respect for Karna ...I loved your analysis,its obvious that it is from your heart.. For me Karna is the very first character ,i got attracted to in Mahabharat..At fist when i heard the stories from my grandfather as a 5 yr old child,it was kinda sympathy..

I cried hearing the story of the infant thrown to a river by his own birth mother ,the teen got rejected by his Guru in the name of his caste and the youngster who had to face questions on caste to prove his abilities...

Later it turned out to respect after reading malayalam version of MB,translation of stories like Mrityunjaya ,His place is carved on the walls of my heart as a hero...

I started reading the KMG version of MB after joining the forum and had a very similar experience to that of yours and stopped reading.. prefered to go on with my own fantacies than facts...

Thanks again for making a wonderful analysis on Karna ...

@ Amrita - I love how u put ur word across humbly without hurting anyone's sentiment. Well this was the only thing I wanted to say in this post, But the part about feminism got me.

The feminist in me holds most males in MB responsible for Drau's condition. Karna's words are talked about more, because he is right there in the middle, Pandav's ka bhai, but Dury ka dost. I can't love him, I can't hate him. But I do hate some of his acts.

What I do believe is that unless Karna fans love him while accepting that he was dead wrong in Drau's case, they are basically pulling down the feminist movement. Some things - statements or actions, should never be justified.

As far as the question about who was the better worrier among KaJu - humble debate is what I seek, but biased arguments full of hatred and rudeness is what I generally see, so I remain far away from these topics. Only because u have put it so nicely, that I decided to participate in this thread. And so far the arguments are coming in good, I hope it stays that way.

@riti that is clearly understood by ur posts dear that character takes the first preferance fr u n i admire that a lot...cos it is the same in my case too...my statement ws nt in particular regarding KaJu but in general...there r ppl who drag the actor while disliking the character which i feel is not healthy...theres no rule after all that since d characters hate each other fans shld also do that...ppl cn have a polite discussions on contasting views as we r having here :D

Originally posted by: nuckts

i agree that draupadi' insult was very bad
but if you compare both draupadi n karna's insults you will find
drauapadi's insult is like a wound a bashing whose memories will always remain,its a hard strike bitter when going through it but it will end after sometime
whereas with karna-his insults are like slow poison whch never gives the pain of bruises but leaves its impact and it will continue till his end,and he has to face it every moment in his life though its not so extreme as drauapdi's insult but surely has a similar amount of impact in a different form😊

Thank u so much for liking and commenting on my post. 😊