Karna: Does He Deserve So Much Respect??[DT Note Page 15] - Page 22

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srishtisingh thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
one thing I don't understand is it hard to accept that karna hated pandava?so wanted to harm them? I am talking before knowing truth.he was dury friend! gen friends enemy was his enemy and here he also had his personal bone to pick with pandavas.he was not pandava friend. one thing I know when people are young hatred,love like emotions govern people decision rather than logic.as people get older they analyse their actions and regret for their wrong actions.I found duryodhan too matured in later part than first part. its like wisdom grows with age!
Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: smrth


There is None. In fact, reverse (-sad that plan was not a 'success') was the 'fact' (as borne out by citation and not 'assumptions'.) After Swayanwar...

"Accompanied by his brothers, Aswatthaman, his uncle (Sakuni), Karna and Kripa the prince set out with a heavy heart for his capital. Then Duhsasana, blushing with shame, addressed his brother softly and said, 'If Arjuna had not disguised himself as a Brahmana, he could never have succeeded in obtaining Draupadi. It was for this disguise, O king, that no one could recognise him as Dhananjaya. Fate, I ween, is ever supreme. Exertion is fruitless; fie on our exertions, O brother! The Pandavas are still alive!' Speaking unto one another thus and blaming Purochana (for his carelessness), they then entered the city of Hastinapura, with cheerless and sorrowful hearts.

"Vaisampayana continued, 'Having heard these words of the monarch, Vidura said, 'O king, let thy understanding remain so without change for a hundred years!' Having said this Vidura returned to his own abode. Then, O monarch, there came unto Dhritarashtra, Duryodhana and the son of Radha, Karna. Addressing the monarch, they said, 'We cannot, O king, speak of any transgression in the presence of Vidura! We have now found thee alone, and will, therefore, say all we like! What is this that thou hast, O monarch, desired to do? Dost thou regard the prosperity of thy foes as if it were thy own, that thou hast been applauding the Pandavas, O foremost of men, in the presence of Vidura? O sinless one, thou actest not, O king, in the way thou shouldst! O father, we should now act every day in such a way as to weaken (the strength of) the Pandavas..."


Regret !?!..if any, it was over the failure of the plot!!🤢

@MedhaS, i may opt the silence, noting discomfiture of personal nature (not you)...i meant analysis of only epic facts. No offence to fellow readers or their beliefs, even while i stick to mine.😒


But you always post amazingly informative citations, and i agree! And someone pointed out that he felt regret for what happened in the dice hall and told that to krishna, but he never really showed any regret towards Draupadi but apparently i am supposed to understand that his regret for the things he said to Pandavas also includes whatever happened with her!


As Varaali said, when death is near, you start regretting -- even Duri lamented to Kripa about his misdeeds, whatever he did to Pandavas and also Draupadi before he ran to hide.

Yeah sure, people are entitled to their povs.


What i dont understand is that what lord krishna said himself is the final thing when it comes to the nice things he said about Karna, you cannot deny that. Just facts Krishna states, no other reason.
But when it comes to all the list of faults and any not-nice things he said about karna, then that is not he case -- not facts, probably bluff, things being said to rile Arjuna up, not because krishna means any of that, because he only really means it when he praises him in front of Arjuna -- not because it is being done deliberately!😆
...Diala... thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: Medha.S


What i dont understand is that what lord krishna said himself is the final thing when it comes to the nice things he said about Karna, you cannot deny that. Just facts Krishna states, no other reason.
But when it comes to all the list of faults and any not-nice things he said about karna, then that is not he case


this is the same thing that I dont understand when it takes a 180 degree turn.. heck he being a Pandava itself is denied on account of Krishna's naughty nature
panchaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: varaali


He willingly took up the charioteering job from which Karna so desperately wanted to avoid.


Why don't I see anyone feeling "sorry" for this guy?


BTW- I am talking about Krishna - Lord Krishna, Btw.


There's nothing to feel sorry about Sri Krishna acting as Charioteer in the war front, it was his wish. But Karna's wish was to become a warrior, archer, why everyone thinks (still now) he should take the job of charioteer?
Suppose one belong to a family of Bank clerks but he/she knows that he/she have the talent to be a doctor, would he/she still have to become a bank clerk, when his/her passion lies in the medical?
Sabhayata thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: -Archu-

Its all about the perspective of the person reading the incidents..If Karna's involvement in Lac griha incident was deleiberate ,later we saw him saying that he was reluctantly being a part of the conspiracy only for the sake of his friend Duryodhan..It clearly shows that he had regrets for being a part of that.

Yudhishtir is considered as Dharmaputr ,not because he never did any mistakes ..Its because of his years of regret on his mistakes...Why cant we count the regrets of Karna!!😕
I cant believe ,pandavas were not aware of the inmates of the house except purochan while burning the house..Or is that like lives of a Nishada woman and her 5 sons are not worth worrying about!!!😕Or else the queen and the 5 princes who are supposed to be responsible for the lives of everyone in the country ,were in a hurry to save their own lives!!!


exactly that was my point when i brought this up

karna knew about lakshagarah but what was his exact role active or non active no one can know

similalry did panadvas really not know who was inside the house when they were burning it.Hard to say

but since panadavs are supposed to be heroes we like to believe they did not not know and since karan is supposed to be a villain one would want to believe he was the mastermind behind it


riti4u thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: ...Diala...


this is the same thing that I dont understand when it takes a 180 degree turn.. heck he being a Pandava itself is denied on account of Krishna's naughty nature

Oh I wanted to respond to this one... but saw you responding..🤗as always our thoughts so match..😳
@Medha.S- What you said about final thing is what i said too... regarding the citation you and your friend bring up every time in discussion... that Krishna said otherwise.. I dont deny his faults...who said he didnt commit faults...or sins.. oh yes he was human ..and when your learned friend here made comparison of his life with krishna ..I just said Karna was too human in comparison... and humans arent God.. but then most of us admire him because he stood out on certain aspects where his human weaknesses could have easily overpowered his sense of right and wrong...
@sadhna_pr- I dont think it was any of Karna fans here who brought that comparison of Karna and Krishna.. Oh and by the way I totally dont mind people hating him for any reason they have...I do mind when they have problem with others who love him despite his flaws...
@panchu..- so good to see your post dear...
Edited by riti4u - 11 years ago
TheWatcher thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: varaali


Karna's K-K did not make him "immortal". The brahmin's curse (when Karna shot down his cow dead) ensured him a gory end.

Karna gets Indra's weapon in lieu of his Kavach / Kundala. So at best, this can be termed as a barter- certainly not a voluntary donation.

Thanks to his Guru Parashurama's curse, Karna knew his K- K will be of no use when faced with a Brahmastra / Brahamashira. So why not get at least Indra's weapon in return?

Arjuna got no such freebie- even from his own dad.


I am not going too much into Karna's involvement in the Lakshagriha or the VH incident.

According to the originals, the Lac Palace was a mastermind of Kanika- one of Dhritarashtra's chief ministers. As for Karna's comment during the VH, it was during the heat of the moment when passions / emotions were running high. Almost everyone present there with the exception of Vikarna was guilty to some extent.

There was only one fatal mistake which Karna committed and for which he paid with his life. - lying to his Guru Parashurama. That pretty much sealed his fate.





Actually, Karna with K-K was UN-killable. As said by Lord Krishna himself that even the sudarshan would not have harmed makes it makes very clear that he was unkillable. So that pretty much makes it up Brahmastra and Brahmashira - they could not have have harmed it either.

And, giving a weapon which has to baffled by a creature created by Indra himself ( Ghatokacha), moreover, Krishna always used his illusive powers to prevent Karna from killing Arjuna. This barter made no sense since the Shakti was to be baffled by the creature created by Indra for that specific purpose.


Edited by TheWatcher - 11 years ago
Sadhana_pr thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

...
@sadhna_pr- I dont think it was any of Karna fans here who brought that comparison of Karna and Krishna.. Oh and by the way I totally dont mind people hating him for any reason they have...I do mind when they have problem with others who love him despite his flaws...

Ah..forgive me. My occasional visits on the forum prevent me from keeping a tab on who is whose fan. And I find discussion based on this ad hominem fallacy, the most inferior kind and try my best to keep away from it. I shall re visit my post to check where any fan group was mentioned or implied.😕
Thanks😊
TheWatcher thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
The citation which was provided in the earlier pages does not say anything about sneaking up and killing the Pandavas, He wanted to have a battle with them in which he would have killed him ( Acc. to him ). No mention of sneaking and killing.

And moreover, Karna himself told Krishna that he did everything for the gratification of Duryodhana.

Edited by TheWatcher - 11 years ago
riti4u thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
...
@sadhna_pr- I dont think it was any of Karna fans here who brought that comparison of Karna and Krishna.. Oh and by the way I totally dont mind people hating him for any reason they have...I do mind when they have problem with others who love him despite his flaws...

Ah..forgive me. My occasional visits on the forum prevent me from keeping a tab on who is whose fan. And I find discussion based on this ad hominem fallacy, the most inferior kind and try my best to keep away from it. I shall re visit my post to check where any fan group was mentioned or implied.😕
Thanks😊
No need for an apology my dear fellow forum member . From your post it seemed obvious to me whom you were referring to...if that was not your intent... I do apologise for bringing that up..
Have a good day Ma'am.😊

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