WHY DID YUDHISHTHIR GO TO HEAVEN?please reply

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#71

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

nucts

Everybody ended up in heaven - Duryodhan, Dushashan, everybody!!! Nobody ended up in hell, even though a lot of them would have deserved to. Which is why I just don't buy the argument that the MB has anything to do w/ defining moral behavior. RY does to an extent, but not MB.

I mean, if characters like Duryodhan, Dushashan, Jayadrath, Shakuni, et al ended up in heaven, why would mortals make even the slightest attempts to get there, when the vilest of men end up there by default?

The 'vilest of men' all died in battlefield. Death on the battlefield (attaining veergati) is said to be good enough to go to heaven.

But there is nothing which suggests that Duryodhan and Co. did not see hell.

Quoting from KMG:

Hell, O son, should without doubt be beheld by every king. Of both good and bad there is abundance, O chief of men. He who enjoys first the fruits of his good acts must afterwards endure Hell. He, on the other hand, who first endures Hell, must afterwards enjoy Heaven. He whose sinful acts are many, enjoys Heaven first.

At any rate, where does it say Dury and Co ended up in heaven (except for the illusion created for Yudi)?

Edited by varaali - 11 years ago

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Rehanism

@Rehanism

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#72

Originally posted by: ..RamKiJanaki..

Wow, so now we humans have become so great and learned that we can call God a sinner? 😲 Forget Yudhisthira and Harischandra, who were great men but human beings. Ram was God. There was a meaning behind every event of his incarnation. No human being has the right to comment on the actions of God or his incarnations, including Ram and Krishna. it's quite laughable.

No, its not laughable at all. Your argument is a logical fallacy called 'Appeal to Authority' and/or 'Appeal to Fear' with a tincture of ad hominem. It may be acceptable only to those who share your dogmatic views but not to anyone else. If you are making a claim you must provide proper reason to back it up without making any presumptions about your opponent's personal faiths or lack of it.

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Bhaskari

@bhas1066

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

#73

1. there is not much said about anyone's experiences other than yudi.
we know all the kings, yudi's family saw hell first , then heaven.
but we dont know what their experience was and for how much time, since they died much before yudi.
2. also its very contradictory that yudi is ready to leave them fallen while climbing the mountain , listing their flaws (which seems insignificant among their other qualities , to me atleast. esp draupadi's - yudi you stake her, she forgives u and u still say this!)
but is not ready to leave hell when he sees them there and duri in heaven. what happened to the renouncement of ties dear yudi?
3. when yudi is stubborn for the entry of the dog, indra/devas ask him about leaving his bro and drau in the mountains, yudi replies they were dead and he couldn't do anything for them?? (were they just fallen or did they die instantly? the earlier text says none of them turned back to see anything?)
4. coming back to point , we dont even know if duri and his bros stay in heaven is temporary or not. KMG mentions him as a part of the demon Kali( who is reigning lord of kali yuga) and shakuni as part of Dwapara . i dont know if the other versions say the same!

Edited by bhas1066 - 11 years ago

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 11 years ago

#74

Originally posted by: varaali
The 'vilest of men' all died in battlefield. Death on the battlefield (attaining veergati) is said to be good enough to go to heaven.

But there is nothing which suggests that Duryodhan and Co. did not see hell.

Quoting from KMG:

Hell, O son, should without doubt be beheld by every king. Of both good and bad there is abundance, O chief of men. He who enjoys first the fruits of his good acts must afterwards endure Hell. He, on the other hand, who first endures Hell, must afterwards enjoy Heaven. He whose sinful acts are many, enjoys Heaven first.

At any rate, where does it say Dury and Co ended up in heaven (except for the illusion created for Yudi)?

Here is the citation about where they all ended up. Let me know if any of the entities below sounds like hell to you.

Janamejaya said, "Bhishma and Drona, those two high-souled persons, king Dhritarashtra, and Virata and Drupada, and Sankha and Uttara. Dhrishtaketu and Jayatsena and king Satyajit, the sons of Duryodhana, and Shakuni the son of Subala, Karna's sons of great prowess, king Jayadratha, Ghatotkaca and others whom thou hast not mentioned, the other heroic kings of blazing forms"tell me for what period they remained in Heaven. O foremost of regenerate persons, was theirs an eternal place in Heaven? What was the end attained to by those foremost of men when their acts came to an end? I desire to hear this, O foremost of regenerate persons, and therefore have I asked thee. Through thy blazing penances thou seest all things.
Sauti said: Thus questioned, that regenerate Rishi, receiving the permission of the high-souled Vyasa, set himself to answer the question of the king.
Vaishampayana said, "Every one, O king of men, is not capable of returning to his own nature at the end of his deeds. Whether this is so or not, is, indeed a good question asked by thee. Hear, O king, this which is a mystery of the gods, O chief of Bharata's race. It was explained (to us) by Vyasa of mighty energy, celestial vision and great prowess, that ancient ascetic, O Kauravya, who is the son of Parasara and who always observes high vows, who is of immeasurable understanding, who is omniscient, and who, therefore knows the end attached to all acts.
"Bhishma of mighty energy and great effulgence attained to the status of the Vasus. Eight Vasus, O chief of Bharata's race, are now seen. Drona entered into Brihaspati, that foremost one of Angirasa's descendants. Hridika's son Kritavarma entered the Maruts. Pradyumna entered Sanatkumara whence he had issued. Dhritarashtra obtained the regions, so difficult of acquisition, that belong to the Lord of treasures. The famous Gandhari obtained the same regions with her husband Dhritarashtra. With his two wives, Pandu proceeded to the abode of the great Indra. Both Virata and Drupada, the king Dhrishtaketu, as also Nishatha, Akrura, Samva, Bhanukampa, and Viduratha, and Bhurishrava and Sala and king Bhuri, and Kansa, and Ugrasena, and Vasudeva, and Uttara, that foremost of men, with his brother Sankha"all these foremost of persons entered the deities. Soma's son of great prowess, named Varchas of mighty energy, became Abhimanyu, the son of Phalguna, that lion among men. Having fought, agreeably to Kshatriya practices, with bravery such as none else had ever been able to show, that mighty-armed and righteous-souled being entered Soma. Slain on the field of battle, O foremost of men, Karna entered Surya. Shakuni obtained absorption into Dwapara, and Dhrishtadyumna into the deity of fire. The sons of Dhritarashtra were all Rakshasas of fierce might. Sanctified by death caused by weapons, those high-souled beings of prosperity all succeeded in attaining to Heaven. Both Kshattri and king Yudhishthira entered into the god of Righteousness. The holy and illustrious Ananta (who had taken birth as Balarama) proceeded to the region below the Earth. Through the command of the Grandsire, he, aided by his Yoga power, supported the Earth. Vasudeva was a portion of that eternal god of gods called Narayana. Accordingly, he entered into Narayana. 16,000 women had been married to Vasudeva as his wives. When the time came, O Janamejaya, they, plunged into the Sarasvati. Casting off their (human) bodies there, they re-ascended to Heaven. Transformed into Apsaras, they approached the presence of Vasudeva. Those heroic and mighty car-warriors, Ghatotkaca and others, who were slain in the great battle, attained to the status, some of gods and some of Yakshas. Those that had fought on the side of Duryodhana are said to have been Rakshasas. Gradually, O king, they have all attained to excellent regions of felicity. Those foremost of men have proceeded, some to the abode of Indra, some to that of Kuvera of great intelligence, and some to that of Varuna. I have now told thee, O thou of great splendour, everything about the acts, O Bharata, of both the Kurus and the Pandavas.

Originally posted by: Rehanism

No, its not laughable at all. Your argument is a logical fallacy called 'Appeal to Authority' and/or 'Appeal to Fear' with a tincture of ad hominem. It may be acceptable only to those who share your dogmatic views but not to anyone else. If you are making a claim you must provide proper reason to back it up without making any presumptions about your opponent's personal faiths or lack of it.

Not just that, if we mortals are such cretins that we could never even begin to comprehend the reasons behind the actions of the gods, then why even begin to read or discuss the scriptures, or mytho texts in the first place? We'd never figure them out, right? So why even bother?

Edited by .Vrish. - 11 years ago

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Bhabhuha

@Bhabhuha

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#75

Dharma is following the code without emotions attached it.
Here in this case Yudhistir chooses Raj Dharma and sticks to it even thru perilious consequences.

As Adi Shankara says
Nischala tatve Jeevan Muki hi

Since Yudi sticks to what he chooses regardless of consequence He gets Mukti

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#76

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

. Shakuni obtained absorption into Dwapara, and Dhrishtadyumna into the deity of fire.

The sons of Dhritarashtra were all Rakshasas of fierce might. Sanctified by death caused by weapons, those high-souled beings of prosperity all succeeded in attaining to Heaven.

Those that had fought on the side of Duryodhana are said to have been Rakshasas. Gradually, O king, they have all attained to excellent regions of felicity. Those foremost of men have proceeded, some to the abode of Indra, some to that of Kuvera of great intelligence, and some to that of Varuna.

I knew this would be the passage which would be quoted. The reason I asked was to know whether there are any references elsewhere which I may have missed.

@ red : since it is the most controversial

Now, this particular line I have cross referenced with the Southern Recension and the Nilkanatha version.

The exact line in the SR is something like this:

Dhritarashtratmajaan Sarve Yaatudhaanaan Prapediray

http://www.dvaipayana.net/books/ppssastri-mbh/ppssastri-ashvamedha-ashramavasika-mausala-mahaprasthana-svargarohana.pdf Page 905 Verse 20 (first line)

The meaning of this line is:

All the sons of dhritarashra (Dhritarashtratmajaan Sarve) As Demons / Evil spirits (Yatudhaanaan) Became (Prapedirey)

Even the Neelkantha version http://asi.nic.in/asi_books/9000.pdf (Page 280) which KMG is supposed to have used for his translation, only has this line with reference to Dury and his brothers

Dhritarashtratmajaan Sarve Yaatudhaanaan Balotkataha

Only the last word is different - Balotkatah. This word means "Forced / Dragged" . Here too, it says that the sons of Dhritarashtra were forcibly dragged into the (world of) demons.

The next line reads something like this

Ridhimanta Mahatmaha shastrapoota divangataha- but this could refer to all the warriors who fell on the battlefield.

Hence, I would like to know where did KMG get this line " Sanctified by death caused by weapons, those high-souled beings of prosperity all succeeded in attaining to Heaven." as being in reference to Dritarashtra's sons

I have NOT found the corresponding line in Sanskrit. Does anyone know?

I don't mean to, by any stretch of imagination, insult KMG. It was due to him that my interest in MB developed and I have the highest respect for him. Just that, there are gaps when a line-by line comparison is done.

Edited by varaali - 11 years ago

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#77

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Shakuni obtained absorption into Dwapara,

Regarding this line, tell me - anyone who is reading this- what did you understand by it.

I will give you my explanation later

Edited by varaali - 11 years ago

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Bhaskari

@bhas1066

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

#78

The Mahabharata, Book 15: Asramavasika Parva: Putradarsana Parva: Section XXXI
Know that Duryodhana was Kali, and Sakuni was Dwapara. O thou of good features, know that Dussasana and others were all Rakshasas.

Kali and Dwapara are brothers and the reigning lords of kaliyuga and dwapar yuga.

it also means that shakuni being essence of Dwapara was a neutral party towards dhrama (two legs dharma and two legs adhrama in dwapar yuga) . he would support duri but would also advice him to be fair towards pandavs. after gandharva incident , when duri wants to suicide, shakuni tells him to give the pandavas back their kingdom in lieu of their help.

kali's main role is to create discord in families which is what happens after duri's birth. but even in kali yuga one leg of dharma remains which is why duri though a bad person was also a good king , a good Kshatriya

this is just my opinion!!

Edited by bhas1066 - 11 years ago

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413226

Suspended

Posted: 11 years ago

#79

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Not just that, if we mortals are such cretins that we could never even begin to comprehend the reasons behind the actions of the gods, then why even begin to read or discuss the scriptures, or mytho texts in the first place? We'd never figure them out, right? So why even bother?

Taking away human beings right to think or question is akin to subjecting them to slavery.

Edited by peridot. - 11 years ago

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Joja

@Joja

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#80

Originally posted by: Bhabhuha
Dharma is following the code without emotions attached it.
Here in this case Yudhistir chooses Raj Dharma and sticks to it even thru perilious consequences.

As Adi Shankara says
Nischala tatve Jeevan Muki hi

Since Yudi sticks to what he chooses regardless of consequence He gets Mukti

What Raj Dharma is it. He looses his kingdom in the game. So what about his praja. Did he think of them even once.

Doesnt he know if Duryodhana rules the kindgom how woul dhe treat the praja. Wasnt this the main reason for him to become the chakravarthi.