On D's physical/mental treatment of Naku & MESSAGE - Page 2

Originally posted by: gp00

Hi Sara!

Your response got me thinking. I've never believed in TIT for TAT when it comes to men-women. Let me explain. If men act alpha-ish, there is no need for a woman to act that way, if that is NOT what she is. Women don't need to be men in skirts. 😉 What I believe in is that Naku should stop being a doormat. She doesn't need to get revenge upon Dutta, be mean, be like Dutta--she needs to open that mouth of hers and SAY what she's got to stay even if she has to scream, and stop crying, or bringing tea. I am no Naku...I would have yelled at him and said, who do you think you are? You think you are the only one life has been cruel to, that other people have been cruel to? You think that only you suffer or hurt? Well, you're NOT the only one. You think I've worn that kajal on my face to deceive YOU? To get YOU? It happened way BEFORE YOU ever existed in my life, and it has nothing to do with you. I made a mistake hiding it, and an even bigger one by not telling you why.....etc, etc. But not our Naku, because the way to show love is to take the insults, the anger, quietly...it shows everyone just how much you understand and love him.😆 The level of stupidity in these serials is unprecedented. It was okay 6 months ago on the show, but they really need to stop now.

Look, I personally don't like Naku as a character...too mahaan for me. I'm not a big believer in romantic martyrs. Let's put it this way, if there were a person like her in real life, while I would like her as a person, I would not want to have her around. She lacks that something. Not alpha male behavior patterns, but an identity, a basic almost elemental level of self-respect. She's "limited". Yes, all her life she's been made to look ugly, and hence she doesn't have much faith in herself. But, people get past far worse things in life.

Yes, I agree. Where Dutta is right now, is because Naku's lie has brought him there. Dutta in my mind is not your typical abusive husband--but make no mistake about it, he is an abusive human being. Words, shoves, all these things are abusive in nature. And I hope people watching these shows STOP ROMANTICIZING these things, even in movies, like the Taal scene you mentioned, which is still different from what we've seen in LTL. It's cute on TV and silly Bollywood movies, but in reality, a glass being thrown here and there is not so cute. And taking it and letting it happen is NOT courage. You respect Naku for handling things the way she is....I simply do not. What they're showing on LTL is absurd nowadays, and in the guise of romance and courage?😆

Do you know why they call dogs men's best friend? Because men don't have to do anything, and that dog will come running to it and give it whatever affection, company, and patience he needs...but last time I looked, though she acts like man's best friend, Naku is undeniably a human being! 😆 Have Naku just speak up for herself and get this damn story over with already...

By the Don thing, I should have been clearer. I did not mean it for LTL. But it would be something to reverse gender roles, and see how much romance we would see if the roles were reversed. Would such a story still be a great love story?

Originally posted by: make-believe

I really don't know if I should plunge into this discussion because for one, it's going to be long-winded and another, it will most probably have no conclusion, but what the hell might as well go out on a limb 😆

First of all, LTL is NOT a show, at all, which can be directly related to real life in any capacity. It's funny, many times I see people on the forum gushing about Dutta, deeming Nakku undeserving of him, wishing that a man like him comes into their lives, etc. etc. and I think: is this for real? Because it's not. The premise of the show itself is something that defeats any relation to real life, because no matter how much we may love Dutta because of his mannerisms, personality, or complexities, at the end of the day, it is because he is FICTIONAL. Supriya was virtually crucified for her behaviour with Dutta, but that is how a real woman would react to a man like him, one who has blood on his hands, carries around a gun, drinks to the point of losing his sanity and has major anger management issues. A real woman would not be like Nakku or even the opposite of Nakku: someone who would stand up to Dutta and 'give' it back to him in the name of feminism. A real woman (with a wise and rational head on her shoulders) would distance herself away from a man like him at the first instance. Forget 'getting to know the person, spending time with them,' etc...that, I call ideal romanticism...a way in which life doesn't work for the most part.

So since the show itself is based on something that is contrary to reality, a girl falling in love with a man like Dutta, is it any surprise that her character is the way it is, designed to be a foil to him and thus so ever-sacrificial, humble and all-enduring? If we want some 'real life' behaviour from Nakku, then she wouldn't have been in love with Dutta in the first place. But LTL has done this cleverly...the very fact that their story is so detached from reality allows them to have such characters and justify it too. Don't you sometimes get the feeling that Patil Wadi is in an altogether alternative universe? 😆 So to compare this show to reality and how a woman really would behave in real life on a direct level...not very valid. The fact that this is something dramatized as well, showcasing 'extreme' situations, choices and decisions...it totally removes the show from a realistic realm and takes it to a fictional zone from which we can only draw vague comparisons and relations on a very indirect level.

But if you still want to compare for the sake of it and draw conclusions on Nakku's character, I will agree with what SAraW has said. I do not support vocal, rabid feminism and cannot root for Nakku to 'give' it to Dutta with hue and cry just because he is a man who has (physical) power over her and she should speak out for the heck of it. The idea of a woman revolting against 'the man' just because...it shows an ingrained inferiority planted in the mind which demands to be 'proved' wrong. WHY is the way in which Nakku fights Dutta's 'injustice' considered as lying down and being bulldozed over? Just because she doesn't create havoc while doing it? It's called silent strength...tackling fire with water. And it will definitively defeat Dutta, she will be the one who wins. Then people might say that she took all of Dutta's 'abuse' and didn't have any self-respect to stand up for herself in front of him...but OH, she did! She is fighting. She is standing up for herself. And just because she chooses to fight an internal, emotional and psychological battle over a vocal and physical one doesn't mean she isn't fighting. To compare her with any other fictional heroine, she is far better than the norm. Because trust me, I have watched enough shows in my time, and any other woman in her situation would have been pulling off Babi/AS Part 50, crying about her phooti kismet, blaming everyone and anyone else except herself, fainting left, right and center without doing anything proactive..but Nakku? She actively approaches Dutta, is determined to make him accept her, she's not crying rivers, not being weak.

And for the people who have a problem with Dutta being abusive...it might sound harsh, but flat out, either you've picked the wrong show to watch or have double standards. Dutta physically tortures a guy hanging upside down and that is acceptable, everyone still loves him regardless, but if he pushes Nakku, it's time to bring out our pitchforks? Doesn't quite work that way, right? It should be recognized that this is just a show and hopefully most are wise enough to judge accordingly, to realize that this is not something to get influenced by or used as a template...no one should be wishing for a Dutta in their lives and no one should be under the false pretence that they can be a Nakku who will 'transform' men or try to act like a Nakku in order to revolutionize other people's lives. Appreciate the show for what it is, in the realm that it is meant to be: fiction. And leave it at that. Because if we try to take this show in any other way but that, the foundation itself falls broken on the ground.

Originally posted by: mussy.jamshed

GP : I always wondered why LTL couldn't be about a woman Don who hates men because of her past experiences. How angry she was with people, how she couldn't trust them...would she be portrayed and seen as sympathetically as Dutta? 😆😆 Don't take me wrong GP, I guess colors are already presenting " Na Aana is des ladoo "........LTL can't be on the same route.......GP: 😆😆Really? Is that what the show is about? I have never watched that show...I was just wondering aloud about LTL and gender roles.

I wish LTL moves on with this Naku-Dutta "finding their way to each other" and gets on with the next best thing, and shows women a little differently. It's treatment of women characters is becoming tedious.
Women historically have been portrayed selfless be it Mothers, sisters, daughters and wives.... in our society also , sacrifice is always expected from women not from man.....so how come they treat women characters differently.......😕 GP: but the true question is: do women live like that or view themselves as that still? Probably a large majority of them do, but sacrificing is one thing, but the over-the-top "sacrificing" Naku does is insane. I mean do you know any women who sacrifice to even close to THAT level....it's one thing to think of others, our families, do what is best for them...but what they're showing with Naku all in the name of love is bizarre.

if we see LTL , Somehow Dutta has been at the receiving end all his life.....so this is the only indian serial where male protagonist has strong role and purpose..... atleast he is shown very honest and blunt in his actions.....I love Dutta.........only Nakusha can handle this 😕 type of individual 😆😆😆.........See, Mussy, this is where I disagree. Naku is not the only one. The show has limited itself by limiting Nakusha's character whose motto in life should be "you could change the world with love and sacrifices, one angry man at a time. Just stay quiet, he'll come around."😆

Originally posted by: gp00

Great points. It is fiction. But I will tell you one thing....when such themes and standards of "womanly" behavior are praised and shown on TV to hundreds of millions of people in a culture that is heavy on women sacrificing, at some point it is not just entertainment. Never underestimate the power of TV or movies or music on influencing and reinforcing roles.[/quote]

Absolutely, media has mass influence, no one will deny that. But if you really want to evaluate the influence of these serials in particular on the youth or even on any other segment of the society...think again. We are coming into an age where the youth MOCKS this mentality shown in general serials and watching it actually works as reverse psychology, they hold contempt for such figures and vow never to be one of them. Even the aunties sitting in their homes, well married and into their years, scoff at the heroine's sacrifices and urge her to take a stand 😆 And trust me, if watching someone on TV make 'sacrifices' enabled that in your life too...things would be veryyyy different 😆 It's easy to watch something, idealize it, romanticize about it, but to actually employ it in your life...doesn't happen too easily. So even though serials are reinforcing such ideas...the average, common woman is in no way or form watching it and thinking that 'I should be a 'murti of mahantaa'" 😆 If anything they're doing just the opposite.

as the land, so the water.

as the seed, so the sprout.

as the region, so the language

Originally posted by: SAraW

Gp, I think we have already discussed abt naksuha not telling him the truth and in the end making a mistake which she was being blamed by Everyone including me .. so ppl here are mature enough to understand what is wrong or right..

now the GAL has taken a stand .. and stood up courageously infront of him .. i mean she had a courage to say to him " ghussay nai aap ki nazrain badal deen hain saab, main tu vaisi hi hoon " This one line has more power then anything else ..thats how a Man like Dutta can be handled ..

Thats my point..

she is trying .. but waiting for him to CALM down .. its a very smart move from her part..

Another thing i wanna say is.. Its just a SHOW GP ..a Fictional show where the interactions and situations are deal with realism .. thats it.. its not necessarily important for the makers to convey a msg through the show .. yes there is a msg . and its being portayed well so far... but Its still a fictional love story .. so not every thing Should be taken Seriously by the viewer... i feel 😕

I believe even if nakusha would have told her story in the current circumstances he wouldn't have listened to her... I tell u i have seen such complex characters myself in my life .. where the issue is not that big and they make a huge fuss abt it .. making it really big in the end 😆

LTL to me is a love story which opens an interesting character dynamic to me which is lacking on television industry these days.. Dutta and naksuha as a Combo makes it alive for me..

i dont seek any reality in the show or romanticize myself in their places 😆.. i think ur contradicting between realism and fiction .. The example of taal was a single thing i liked in the movie btw ..

anyways to each his own .. 😊

Originally posted by: make-believe

We are supposed to buy Nakku's reasonings for being with Dutta BECAUSE it is fiction! 😆 Of course no one would buy that if we talked about real life scenarios 😆 And that is the fine line between understanding which part of their story can be related to on a realistic plain and which part can't.

And to be quite honest with you, I find it surprising that you see Dutta's flaws, such major and grievous flaws, and yet choose to draw conclusions about Nakku's character from it and not Dutta's 😆 That Dutta is a murderer doesn't seem to lessen your liking for him, but the fact that Nakku accepts him so makes you disturbed with her character 😆

Originally posted by: Dancingdoll

Parul, Welcome back! Just got up and u have already teased the grey cells!!...😆😆....There are few things I didnt get from your post but will generally present my POV!

COLORS channel commenced with the notion to hit and potray social evils of society like child marriage, forced marriage by goons, Zamindaar system etc...LTL fell into its laps because it hit one more social evil, "atrocities at underpreviledged girls"...Without proper guidance, atmosphere and source, gals (especially if they are beautiful) from "basti" are more prone to get into the clutches of pimps and buyers, and land a straight ticket to Dubai!...This concept touched one more weak nerve of society and qualified it to be a COLORS product! If a social evil is the prime contention, this evil had to prevail prominently in the serial....In all the COLORs serial, you would see the Act I of the show, elaborating this evil and presenting in front of society. Act I is intended to understand the character of one such sample of society embroiled in this evil and make the audience aware of her problem and connect to her, feel for her!...It becomes her story now!

Now, There has to be a social evil, a downfall where either the subject falls in the pit or is about to fall in the pit, a knight in shining armour who either saves her at the nick of the time from falling into the pit or goes in the pit and takes her out of it, ofcourse in the course cleaning the pit!

Now, who wants a sad ending? Also, No matter how many social evils you attack, you are in the show business for profits and TRPs! A love story captures the interest! As an audience, you feel for the gal and you want a saviour for her, you root for a twist where she can fight and get away from this evil...hence, its imp to show the gal vulnerable (to introduce a saviour and romanticize the show) and at the same time bold (bcoz she also needs to fight the evil)...The subject has to be someone for whom the viewers hands go to their heart, "hayeeeee" or "bechaari" and that can happen when she is within the value system that an idle society sets for an idle human being - tolerant, well-behaved, always a giver, seedhi saadhi and there u have the formula for "Hayee" audience! Would you connect to a shrewd and strong gal falling into life traps? Educated slot might but not the whole population...Everyone would be shouting on their screen, "If u r so cunning,why cant u use your brain cells and get out of it"...Use ur khurafaati dimaag!...But for a gullible gal, your eyes well up and you root for a knight in shining armour...and occasionally when she shows strength and stands for right reasons, your heart blows up with triumph - "Atta gal, way to go!"

What's the point in showing a girl embrolied in this social evil getting into a vicious cirle, with no way out! A story becomes recitative when there is a situational difference between the subject and the other girls in engulfed by similar social evil...(In real life 99% gals who become victim to a social evil, remain in it and only 1% might come out of it....but in a show, the gal always has to come out of it...Thats what the audience needs! )Hence, Naku is saved by a DON (A don made more sense because she is bound to see a don in her life more than a decent social man), larger than life (imp to blow out of proportion to attract viewers and keep them glued) and he becomes her shield from this evil....but dont forget the underlying concept why the show started and that has to be always reminded to the viewers in the form of Anna and Morey! The LS needs to be intense and with issues because straight LS can never keep the viewers glued for long! They feel for a character, get attached to it only if they feel his/her problems! I personally am very attached to Tasha because of their numerous adjoined sine curve journey! The cracks in both of them make me cling to them, call me (a rep of audience) an emotional fool but this works with the audience! We see a problem and then we automatically go and stand on the fence, picketing for the two!!...

There is your recipe to successful show, that touched the audience too!!!...

On Naku and Dutta, many members have already explained beautifully why Naku is tolerating Dutta's atrocities. Love just increases your power of resistance and tolerance, exponentially...Naku is just empowering her power right now for her love...and she knows "Saab bahut achche hain"....She sees the heart, not its cloth/cover - skin!