JA~~Mirrors for princes~~

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ngayou

@ngayou

Dazzler

Posted: 10 years ago

#11

Very nice writeup, buddy 👍🏼

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RadhikaS0

@RadhikaS0

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#12

Lasya,

🤗

I want to give you a big hug for writing what was on my mind in the morning. I saw yesterday's episode after quite a few days break and I really liked it. I was quite intrigued by how Jalal was finding ingenious ways to teach Salim the importance of learning to defend people at all times. I was quite upbeat till I came to the forum in the afternoon and all my enthusiasm died after reading all the negative press about Jalal in yesterday's episode.

I agree that Jalal could practise what he preaches to Salim. But I do believe that most parents don't let their weaknesses come in the way of teaching their kids the right things. Suppose a parent smokes or drinks. Would they encourage their child to do the same? Usually not. So telling Jalal to practise what he preaches is like saying every parent should first become perfect before they try to teach their kids anything.

After all, we are not all of us Gandhiji, who started drinking milk so that he could tell a young boy, whose mother had brought him to meet Gandhiji, the importance of drinking milk.

The past is an indelible blot on Jalal. But should the past be held against him at all times even when he is trying to teach his son something positive and useful?

Today, we harp on innovation in teaching and using out-of-the-box ideas to stimulate learning in young minds. And Jalal was quite innovative in planning an attack so that Salim's reactions in a crisis could be gauged. Salim appears a fearful child. Jalal wanted to impress on him the importance of learning sword fighting at least for self-defence and for defending the people who would be dependent on him as a king to protect them. And he did succeed in getting some action from Salim.

I did not find it odd that he asked Salim why he had not opposed Ruq's decision to remove Anar's father from his job. Now Salim may or may not oppose Ruq. But he would at least learn one thing - that being the wali-ahad, he is not so important that no one can stand up to him without fear of losing their job. What Jalal was stressing on was that a king's personal ego should not stand in the way of justice. That if someone made a mistake (as Salim believed Anar had done), it was the duty of a wali-ahad and a Shahenshah to forgive them (for forgivable mistakes, not punishable offences) and not pull rank on them, punish them unnecessarily, and spoil their lives/future through a thoughtless/impulsive gesture like Ruq had done.

Jalal may not have punished Ruq till date. But he is certainly aware of her character and her flaws. He wants Salim also to be aware of the possibility of adults, including parent figures, being capable of making mistakes. He wants to bring it home to Salim that respected figures in our lives could go wrong and we should not trust their decisions blindly but learn the confidence to be able to question them, when required.

Salim / Jahangir is well-known for his deep sense of justice. It is said anyone could ring a bell outside the palace anytime of the day or night seeking justice and Jahangir would instantly come to redress their grievance. Such a strong sense of justice must surely have been learnt from his parents from an early age.

Jalal knows that it is not an easy task to stand up to Ruq and question her. Salim raises this point. And in response to this, Jalal says that Salim can resort to a simple white lie if he is not up to facing his opponent to ensure justice is done. Yes, lying is not to be encouraged and parents certainly must not teach children to lie. But in real life, many parents do end up asking their kids to tell small white lies on their behalf. Or force them to lie by pressurising them unnecessarily. That is as good as teaching children to lie.

Values and other important aspects of ruling such as a sense of justice, equality and tolerance, being a good warrior, diplomacy (which is nothing but the fine art of lying with a straight face), understanding the people and their problems, not having an ego, and so on - these must all be taught from an early age at all times and in all possible ways.

If a father, a king, is trying to do that, it should be lauded. Because parenting even now is usually a mother's job and a king would have rather employed teachers for training princes rather than taking upon the added responsibility on their shoulders.

Jalal missed out on his parents' support and guidance while growing up and never really had a normal childhood. He is trying to make sure that at least he is there for Salim.

Jodha should have supported his talk about caring for the awaam, considering that it was she who had made Jalal aware of his duties towards his awaam in the first place. It was odd that she should have said that Salim was too young to learn about responsibilities. A prince is never too young to learn and take on responsibility because the king's life is never certain. The king could be killed by anyone at any time. Then what would the prince do?

By assigning subahs to Salim, Jalal was introducing him to the nuances of ruling a vast empire.

Through the jugalbandi of swords and ghungroos, Jalal was trying to gauge Salim's interest area and teach him the importance of focusing on one thing, keeping all other distractions at bay.

I have no complaints with Jalal teaching Salim a few facts of life, even if he himself never adhered to them. At least he is passing on the right values to his son, instead of pampering him silly and turning him into a wastrel.

I am surprised by the passive mother, Jodha. Apart from music, Jodha can teach him so much. From sword fighting, horse riding, archery to hindi/urdu to scriptures to features of both religions to lessons about the lives of great kings and warriors. But none of this is being shown.

When the dacoits attacked Jodha and Salim, Jodha would have been capable of handling them, considering she even fought the mirchi war in a pregnant condition. But she was shown to be so weak that she needed to be defended by her young son. Salim doesn't even seem to be aware of his mother's various hunars. What happened to the hunar ki khaan? What happened to the active teacher / learner who interacted with Rahim so well?

Rahim was very lucky to receive the best training from Jalal, Jodha and Salima. Even Salim isn't so lucky. And the other princes are totally off radar. This is weird. Because ALL princes were trained in everything required to rule well. Because the crown prince could die and pave the way for another prince to ascend the throne. Or even otherwise, all princes represented the country and were involved to a greater or lesser extent in ruling it. So all of them need to learn the same lessons. But Murad and Daniyal are not given any personal attention. It's as if Salim is sent to a prestigious private school while the other 2 princes attend a government school. And God knows, what kind of education Mehtab is getting.

Thanks Lasya, for making this thread and letting me speak out what was on my mind. 😊 Hope you don't mind the lengthy diatribe. 😛

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Cleo12345

@Cleo12345

Navigator

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#13

Amazing post lasya ,I loved it.

As a parent myself ,I feel why only princes but almost all the kids should be taught from childhood what is wrong and what is right.As in the childhood ,the mind is like a sponge which absorbs anything very instantly,Its our duty give good fodder to their minds to absorb.The good foundation in the childhood is very essential.

Somehow Jalal's attempts of teaching his son sword fighting in different ways is praiseworthy.Even he telling his son about the duties of an heir and then a King was good but he shouldn't have told his son that we.can lie according to the situation as his son doesn't have that ability at this age ,to understand what his father meant,

But I expect something from Jodha too.Its good she is teaching singing to her son but she herself is good at sword and being a princess she had learned it at young age and used to religiously practice her skills sometime back.So she should herself boost his confidence to take the sword in his hand and go for practice.She has to make sure that he learns the basic skills like sword fighting,martial arts etc which are necessary for a King .Because it's the mighty emperor who saves the nation from the enemies than anyone else,

Even the great Shivaji's mother used to be personally present on the training field of her young son of 8 yrs, to see that he shapes up as a fearless mighty warrior .

Why doesn't Jo tell Salim stories of Arjun ,Karna,Prithviraj chauhan etc or atleast of his own father's warrior skills to motivate him?

When Jalal and Jodha both are looking out for the best interests of their son then why they should be at opposite ends ? Why can't they make a team as most the parents do,and give the best to their son? He can get the training of a good warrior and also as being a good man almost at the same time then why the difference between them?

Rashmi, I like ur analysis ...a child's mind is like a sponge...so true...and this is what made me concerned about the sensationalization of child drug addition and child abuse in the show ( both Hussain and Salim hv been victims of child abuse on this show...as per the criteria followed by most international child care and Human rights organizations)...before someone here justifies using the overused and over abused " 16th century mein yeh hota tha...big deal" argument...let me clarify, 16 th century people are dead and buried...not that they don't matter but right now, I am talking about the effect of this off putting drama on 21st century impressionable minds... The offensive reality or NRs of Mughal era, world wars or stone age is not what I am discussing in this post...the undesirable illustration of a crime against children in 21st century is unnecessary and objectionable...period... Show it at 2AM with the rest of adult garbage and I promise not to waste my time complaining...btw, while graphic sex scenes n some violent scenes catch the eye or censor board/ critics/ govt bodies...inappropriate social messages given by fully clothed characters are ok for general family time viewing.

To me, the most worrisome part is that these crimes are not a part of a documentary or news article that shows them as potentially dangerous problems with alarming Statastics s...RATHER, minimizes them as weapons of kitchen politics with none of the life changing negative outcomes that the victims, their families or even the perpetrators go though. This kind of sensationaliztion of a serious crime can be really harmful if we take the society and the future into the picture...the characters can be stubbornly called fictional by arrogant CVs but the reality is that this is just a poor defense/ excuse that can be trashed by any average lawyer if questioned...can BT and Zee show child po*n under the shield of a disclaimer? ...they take viewers for granted and are lucky to be dealing with indian viewers who are either very tolerant or very busy to spend more than 22mins on a soap which hasn't been declared harmful on page 3 gossip news articles, doordarshan or TOI...so no worries...Hamara bachcha is samajhdaar and would not be r to be influenced by this...iss hafte ke pyazz aur sone ka bhaav batayie...

I don't claim to be very different from the rest...when I was addicted ( but frustrated with JA) I also did take time to do something easily doable against the show...10 mins of venting on the forum...then busy with family, friends, job and other distractions ...but was it the right thing to do? No...I wasn't being a responsible viewer...they showed us one lollipop episode n we r back praising them and declaring the actors as Oscar worthy performers...senseless J vs J fights...PS vs RT fights...and in the process of trying to prove that we are positive optimistic people, we repeatedly ignored the arrogant mistakes commited by the PH and the channel, were we being unfair to our kids and their future by accepting everything offered by a few sadistic minds who neither respect Indian history nor care about our future...They are no longer making fun of our history...they are now making fun of our folly, indifference and self centered behavior...if we continue to watch JJ and increase TRPs( thus indirectly encouraging them to promote more sadism) ...I took a small step...made my friends n relatives in India understand why it is important that the trps of this show drop...and filled out an BCCC complain form... For some reason, it didn't go through...maybe because I used an international phone number and address...anyway, I will use the snail mail tomorrow.

Edited by Cleo12345 - 10 years ago

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Charu

@Charu.S

Voyager

Posted: 10 years ago

#14

Originally posted by: Cleo12345

I loved your views Cleo, you have elaborated on a valid point and I completely agree with you.

Charu.

Edited by Charu.S - 10 years ago

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Charu

@Charu.S

Voyager

Posted: 10 years ago

#15

Originally posted by: lasyap3

I agree Rashmi..Great post😃

Mothers are our first teachers at home...Jodha can teach many things...😊

Even Salim can take the interest to learn,provided he has the zeal and understands the need for learning these😉

Good thoughts beautifully communicated Rashmi.

Charu.

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Charu

@Charu.S

Voyager

Posted: 10 years ago

#16

Originally posted by: SindhuMenon
Lasya and Rashmi, loved both your write ups. Agree with both of you.

The way Jalal is trying to bring in awareness in his son regarding his responsibilities needs to be appreciated. Just because both Parents are capable and smart, brave, it is not required that the child automatically gets it or has it. However the child has the advantage of having such capable parents who can mould him up. We are seeing this right now.

I loved the concept Talwarbazi Jugalbandhi scene as well as the Dhakku scene. The only part that I did not like was Jalal advising his son to lie for a good cause. Chalo I can forget this also as I was pleased with him today the way he handled Ruks.

I wish Jodha could also teach sword fighting to Salim, and seeing his mother he would be motivated more.

Well said Sindhu. I too am interested in seeing Jodha share her knowledge about different aspects besides music, with Salim.

Charu.

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Charu

@Charu.S

Voyager

Posted: 10 years ago

#17

Thank you for writing an awesome post Lasya. 😊

Educating a child from an early age is great, but it should be done keeping the child's personality and ability in mind. In the eagerness to impart the best of knowledge in various aspects to a child, we have to make sure that the child does not become overwhelmed, confused, scared and withdrawn. Very often what the adult thinks is best for the child, may not be what the child is interested in.

Children are like clay that can be moulded. Every step taken to mould that clay has to be done with extreme caution. Even one wrong step can cause a crack, so deep that once the clay is hardened, will be difficult, sometimes impossible, to repair. This will leave an unchangeable impression in their minds all their lives.

The words spoken to a child have to be uttered with forethought and caution, so that they do not backfire in the future. The damage done by wrong usage of words, in the form of advise, can seldom be undone.

Instead of having differences of opinion in raising Salim, I would like to see both Jalal and Jodha on the same page, with little Salim learning the best aspects of both Rajput and Mughal cultures, the best of knowledge that both his skilled and smart parents can impart to him.

Charu.

Edited by Charu.S - 10 years ago

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Rashmi81

@Rashmi81

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#18

Originally posted by: Charu.S
Thank you for writing an awesome post Lasya. 😊

Educating a child from an early age is great, but it should be done keeping the child's personality and ability in mind. In the eagerness to impart the best of knowledge in various aspects to a child, we have to make sure that the child is not overwhelmed, confused, scared and withdrawn. Very often what the adult thinks is best for the child, may not be what the child is interested in.

Children are like clay that can be moulded. Every step taken to mould that clay has to be done with extreme caution. Even one wrong step can cause a crack, so deep that once the clay is hardened, will be difficult ,sometimes impossible, to repair. This will leave an unchangeable impression in their minds all their lives.

The words spoken to a child have to be uttered with forethought and caution, so that they do not backfire in the future. The damage done by wrong usage of words, in the form of advise ,can seldom be undone.

Instead of having differences of opinion in raising Salim, I would like to see both Jalal and Jodha on the same page, with little Salim learning the best aspects of both Rajput and Mughal cultures, the best of knowledge that both his skilled and smart parents can impart to him.

Charu.

Well said Charu.

We hope Jalal and jodha act as matured parents while raising their son ,Salim

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Cleo12345

@Cleo12345

Navigator

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#19

Originally posted by: Charu.S

Thanks Charu...I feel bad that this beautiful story became a victim of sadism and trp race. Sometimes, I discuss it passionately on the forum, but I never really lose my sleep over it. Butchering of historical characters is also something that irks me , but again i don't spend much time thinking about it.

However, social issues related to women, children, elderly and animals is something I REALLY care about. The last time I was this upset with JA showmakers was when TM/ Nigaar track was aired...I couldn't believe how they sensationalized rape and used it to build a disgusting story in the name of Naari Shakti. I was disappointed in both Jo and Jalal during that track. They showed an innocent man to be falsely accused by a deceitful woman...and the most popular fictional character was shown to support that claim? The good for nothing Shehensha meekly accepted it without doing a proper investigation...SD stayed in jail for weeks but innocent TM almost died the next day. ...all this in the name of women rights? They gave the " boys will be boys" club a reason to mock rape victims."Women use rape charges to trap men" ...how insensitive...in a country where sexual violence is an epidemic.

Now again, they are using serious crimes against children for masalafication...do they live on mars where they don't get a newspaper? How can they be so indifferent to the suffering of thousands of real child victims all over the world. I see it as a mockery as well as minimization of a heinous crime...I hv interacted with victims of drug abuse...their families...how easily lives and relationships are destroyed by a few greedy drug peddlers who operate in school districts targeting kids. So many kids in the US are addicted to prescription drugs...so many of them die of accidental overdose. I looked up the stastics in India...alarming. Using four letter words isn't allowed during family time...but all other form of negative stimuli are?

I am not against showing or educating viewers about these crimes on tv...but it can not be done in such a callus and insensitive manner( trump card used by the victorious party) ..better if .the message in the end is "Drugs destroy lives..perpetrators get punished" ...if wouldn't mind of they show Murad or Daniyal ( grown up) as alcoholics and ultimately dying from complications...but if they hv to show an addict getting everything including a takht on a platter... and the perpetuator with an evil victory smirk... They shouldn't be allowed to show it as unrestricted content for general viewing.

Edited by Cleo12345 - 10 years ago

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Rashmi81

@Rashmi81

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#20

@ Cleo,

Amazing views and very true indeed.

During H & H death ,I had called the zee office and protested against such graphical description of their killing.And had given a huge lecture about their social responsibility specially towards kids but all my words and advice to them went down the drain I suppose.I hated Mahtab's circumsicion scene where even the private parts of that baby were shown .Do you remember that all the babies in this show were kept naked and wrapped in just one green cloth ?How pathetic!!!!!!!! For me these cvs are no less than those child abusers.

Everyday the news are shown about child sex offense in nursery schools too.Parents are under constant fear till the child comes home safe.And drugs in one leading youth problem problem all over the world .And look ,how a leading PH and a leading channel has turned blind eye towards it and are using kids as a medium of negativity.I wonder how they will explain this " opium" scene to that young child actor Ayaan? How will they tell him to act under its influence ? I seriously feel that his parents should forget the money they get and categorically convey to PH that their son won't do such scenes.

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