jodhaism and jalladism! DT Note Pg 7 - Page 3

Originally posted by: yurimehta11

Honestly mandy ek shoudnt touch sensitive chittor war where 13k woman did jauhar and 40k civilian died for her so called trp as their is no explaination on this by anyone akbar never returned chittor nor restored this place He went straight to Ajmer sharif this war skipped from most of drama related to akbar ekta kachra kar rahi hai sabka

yes, u r rt i think ekta should have not touched this and connecting twin death with it was just too much to digest! a VO should have been enough!

Originally posted by: adiana12

Wahhh... Now this was one thread that I felt good reading all comments. 1ividhya, Akbar did go to Ajmir and Sikri between April and October of 1568 and not just Jodha but others too accompanied him - and he used to take family for his conquest wars as most of these he started as hunting trips - infact if you read Fazl and Irfan Habib's paper on technology during this period and Tabaqat - kbari, you will note a lot of info on the type of tents and equippage used by Akbar as well as how the encampment of the army was which does give info on the harem being a part of the encampment and it was on one such trip that his third son Daniyal was born to Jodha - btw I do have confirmed info from 2 different chronicles of Akbar's time that give the info that Murad and Daniyal were also born to Jodha / HK. Now I am on to finding about the daughters. I have already given my 2-bit on Chittor on divi's thread and have nothing to add - while I do admire MP for his valor and bravery but it ends there, I am not very impressed by his thinking - as to Ranthambor well the Hadas refused to have any matrimonial alliance with Akbar and he readily agreed and while others including Bhagwan Das felt this to be an insult to the Emperor, Akbar himself did not bother as he also knew that a Hada princess would also have to be made a chief queen and she may pull rank over Jodha / HK since the Hadas considered thenselves superior to the Ameris - and this was before Akbar had news that the 'bun was in the Oven' - and that to me twlls everything about what HK meant to him !!!

thx for the info adi..seems like chittor conquer was more of ego clash between the titans and both the parties showed their bravery but only one had to win!

The curious thing, Mandy, about the Chittor siege, and correct me if I am wrong, Adiana, is that Kunwar Pratap was not there in Chittor, nor did he attack the Mughal forces from the rear in a pincer movement of the kind advocated by Maharana Udai Singh in that scene on Friday. Nor was Udai Singh there, for he had moved to the safety of Udaipur.

So it was only Jaimal and Patta against Akbar, while the real titans of Mewar were conspicuous by their absence, for various reasons, true, but absence all the same.

And the real Jodha seems to have been like Ethel Kennedy, who had 8 children quite effortlessly, at times after just 20 minutes of labour!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: mandyg

thx for the info adi..seems like chittor conquer was more of ego clash between the titans and both the parties showed their bravery but only one had to win!

Originally posted by: adiana12

Wahhh... Now this was one thread that I felt good reading all comments. 1ividhya, Akbar did go to Ajmir and Sikri between April and October of 1568 and not just Jodha but others too accompanied him - and he used to take family for his conquest wars as most of these he started as hunting trips - infact if you read Fazl and Irfan Habib's paper on technology during this period and Tabaqat - kbari, you will note a lot of info on the type of tents and equippage used by Akbar as well as how the encampment of the army was which does give info on the harem being a part of the encampment and it was on one such trip that his third son Daniyal was born to Jodha - btw I do have confirmed info from 2 different chronicles of Akbar's time that give the info that Murad and Daniyal were also born to Jodha / HK. Now I am on to finding about the daughters.

I have already given my 2-bit on Chittor on divi's thread and have nothing to add - while I do admire MP for his valor and bravery but it ends there, I am not very impressed by his thinking - as to Ranthambor well the Hadas refused to have any matrimonial alliance with Akbar and he readily agreed and while others including Bhagwan Das felt this to be an insult to the Emperor, Akbar himself did not bother as he also knew that a Hada princess would also have to be made a chief queen and she may pull rank over Jodha / HK since the Hadas considered thenselves superior to the Ameris - and this was before Akbar had news that the 'bun was in the Oven' - and that to me twlls everything about what HK meant to him !!!

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Mandy dearest,

This script is like a ball of knitting wool with which a kitten has been playing. There is no way now that it can be straightened out.

It is not just the havoc played with the depiction of Akbar/Jalal - though that is by far the most glaring as his is the central character and is supposed to represent one of the greatest personalities of all time. They have turned a great, if ruthless military strategist into a kohl-eyed, ranting maniac. Next they will turn him into a equally maniacal repenting puddle of guilt, with all that kohl running out of his eyes!😉

But it is Jodha as well whose depiction is being twisted and made unbelievably inconsistent from one day to the other. The woman who was lamenting endlessly about Rajvanshi deaths on Friday was the same one who told Mansingh, during the the attack on the Raja of Panna- that too for precisely the same crime, of sheltering rebels against the Shahenshah - that an enemy is an enemy, whether he is Rajvanshi or Mughal, and that he should be loyal to the Shahenshah. This is such a glaring contradiction that it hits you in the eye. Her whole harping exclusively on Rajvanshis, as against Mughals, on Friday was very distasteful.

I never had any high hopes of this serial for the past several months,but I had thought that they would fudge the fall of Chittor in Feb 1568 (and Ranthambhor in March 1569) by taking a several year leap to August 1569 and Salim. I never thought they would get into this double mess. Now, after Jalal has been re-reformed from a blood-crazed sinner to a great human being in Jodha Begum's Insanification 2.0, things look set to go completely haywire.

I am waiting to see what they do to "explain" Jalal's attack on Ranthambhor the year after Chittor, though it ended smoothly in just a month, probably thanks to the effect of Chittor. That was in Feb-March 1569.

And Salim was born on August 30, 1569, so he must have been in works from early December 1568, that is to say 8 months after Chittor and just before Ranthambhor! What would that say about the Jodha-Jalal relationship post Chittor and pre-Ranthambhor?

So the epiphany at Chittor, if they show one of Jalal repenting furiously and getting back into Jodha Begum's good books, did not stop him, unlike Asoka, from launching more akaaran aur anuchit wars of conquest. The Hada Raja of Ranthambhor had not done anything against Akbar, not even to the extent of the hostility displayed by Kunwar Pratap, so that campaign was purely for the expansion of the empire. And there must have been at least some Rajvanshi rakht spilt there as well, at least due to the very heavy cannon fire from the Mughal side. So what is Jodha Begum going to do about that?

Then there was the campaign to conquer Gujarat in 1572, though as I had noted elsewhere, that would presumably not bother Jodha Begum as the dead there on the other side would not be Rajvanshi!

My advice to you, for whatever it is worth, Mandy dearest, is to stop lamenting about the horrendous distortions in this Jalal. Paani sar ke upar ja chuka hai. Just duck for cover in the week ahead!


Shyamala

People after having so much low on the scripts n dullness something really is a positive thing that Akbar don't have so much of jodhaism as in atifa track he proves it , when Jodha was in amer in sujamal track the tax thing n most importantly in Adam death track he was the real Akbar for me

You are welcome, Lashykanna. it feels good to touch base with you again, and I hope you have been keeping well.

But no, I do not think this track is for any such rational reason as the one you have suggested and which, incidentally, does not seem to have had anything to do with the real Jalal/Akbar. It is only the writers' idea of shielding him from blame for the Chittor bloodletting at the end.

However, I do not see how he can be exculpated from it because he has lost faith in God after he took his kids away ,and now issues impassioned, mocking, challenges to the heavens. Nor do I see why, just because he has lost faith in God, he has to automatically become a sadist who cheats the executioner of his due earnings and cuts the throats of condemned criminals himself, not to speak of bashing up the faces of his sparring partners to a bloody pulp. No, my pet, it is all just plain nonsense, and ugly nonsense at that.

Jodha is no better, illogical, clannish and inconsistent. She and Jalal were so wonderfully moving in their tender scenes together between the deaths of Hasan and Hussein. But now she is back in full on bhaashan mode, with Hamida and Salima once again as her Greek chorus. Proof positive of the old adage that good things never last.

As for my conclusions from the incontrovertible dates in 1568/69, don't build too much on them as far as this serial goes. The CVs will surely treat them with the lofty disdain they reserve for uncomfortable historical facts. I would not be surprised if Ranthambhor disappeared into the CVs' pet black hole!😉

Shyamala Periamma

Originally posted by: lashy

Thank you periyamma... more than any other post - more than any other of your replies - this was the one that helped me see things in perspective better! 👏

Mandy... personally I think this track was more for 'Yes Jalal had a maniacal streak in him that could resurface at any time...' (Even psychologists might be unable to explain this away - though I do hope someone might be able to explain what runs in CVs' mind!) rather than anything else really 😕

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Mandy dearest,

This script is like a ball of knitting wool with which a kitten has been playing. There is no way now that it can be straightened out.

It is not just the havoc played with the depiction of Akbar/Jalal - though that is by far the most glaring as his is the central character and is supposed to represent one of the greatest personalities of all time. They have turned a great, if ruthless military strategist into a kohl-eyed, ranting maniac. Next they will turn him into a equally maniacal repenting puddle of guilt, with all that kohl running out of his eyes!😉

But it is Jodha as well whose depiction is being twisted and made unbelievably inconsistent from one day to the other. The woman who was lamenting endlessly about Rajvanshi deaths on Friday was the same one who told Mansingh, during the the attack on the Raja of Panna- that too for precisely the same crime, of sheltering rebels against the Shahenshah - that an enemy is an enemy, whether he is Rajvanshi or Mughal, and that he should be loyal to the Shahenshah. This is such a glaring contradiction that it hits you in the eye. Her whole harping exclusively on Rajvanshis, as against Mughals, on Friday was very distasteful.

I never had any high hopes of this serial for the past several months,but I had thought that they would fudge the fall of Chittor in Feb 1568 (and Ranthambhor in March 1569) by taking a several year leap to August 1569 and Salim. I never thought they would get into this double mess. Now, after Jalal has been re-reformed from a blood-crazed sinner to a great human being in Jodha Begum's Insanification 2.0, things look set to go completely haywire.

I am waiting to see what they do to "explain" Jalal's attack on Ranthambhor the year after Chittor, though it ended smoothly in just a month, probably thanks to the effect of Chittor. That was in Feb-March 1569.

And Salim was born on August 30, 1569, so he must have been in works from early December 1568, that is to say 8 months after Chittor and just before Ranthambhor! What would that say about the Jodha-Jalal relationship post Chittor and pre-Ranthambhor?

So the epiphany at Chittor, if they show one of Jalal repenting furiously and getting back into Jodha Begum's good books, did not stop him, unlike Asoka, from launching more akaaran aur anuchit wars of conquest. The Hada Raja of Ranthambhor had not done anything against Akbar, not even to the extent of the hostility displayed by Kunwar Pratap, so that campaign was purely for the expansion of the empire. And there must have been at least some Rajvanshi rakht spilt there as well, at least due to the very heavy cannon fire from the Mughal side. So what is Jodha Begum going to do about that?

Then there was the campaign to conquer Gujarat in 1572, though as I had noted elsewhere, that would presumably not bother Jodha Begum as the dead there on the other side would not be Rajvanshi!

My advice to you, for whatever it is worth, Mandy dearest, is to stop lamenting about the horrendous distortions in this Jalal. Paani sar ke upar ja chuka hai. Just duck for cover in the week ahead!


Shyamala

nice post mandy
it is always a pleasure to read your posts

ekta can never do justice to akbar
she can only glorify her heroines and make them give bhashan

Originally posted by: sashashyam

You are welcome, Lashykanna. it feels good to touch base with you again, and I hope you have been keeping well.
Oh yes... this is UTTERLY my fault... every time I want to type a PROPER reply to you, I get carried away by other (often silly) masti around here... I got roped in for the two episodes (hassan hussein ones) and ended up doing lamba-waala analysis...but those episodes deserved it (not what seems to have come after - which thankfully, I'm skipping again)

But I will and want to send you a big one to update you on everything happening my end... and really really miss you around here...

discuss about you... and our banter... with Divya too 'hugs'

But no, I do not think this track is for any such rational reason as the one you have suggested and which, incidentally, does not seem to have had anything to do with the real Jalal/Akbar. It is only the writers' idea of shielding him from blame for the Chittor bloodletting at the end.
I don't really see that they managed to buy him any brownie points though -because I don't see anyone around here empathizing with him currently! Till a day ago yes.. but now, I think it's jarring!

However, I do not see how he can be exculpated from it because he has lost faith in God after he took his kids away ,and now issues impassioned, mocking, challenges to the heavens. Nor do I see why, just because he has lost faith in God, he has to automatically become a sadist who cheats the executioner of his due earnings and cuts the throats of condemned criminals himself, not to speak of bashing up the faces of his sparring partners to a bloody pulp. No, my pet, it is all just plain nonsense, and ugly nonsense at that.

Jodha is no better, illogical, clannish and inconsistent. She and Jalal were so wonderfully moving in their tender scenes together between the deaths of Hasan and Hussein. But now she is back in full on bhaashan mode, with Hamida and Salima once again as her Greek chorus. Proof positive of the old adage that good things never last.
The Hassan and Hussein aftermath episodes were beautifully directed ones...👏 but look at the TRPs periyamma... they've fallen during the week... looks like viewers do like 'Earth shattering' Tan Tan Tan drama every other week... to keep them hooked...

Are you still enjoying Airlines as a viewer😊

Once I finish my story, I plan to watch ZGH periyamma... wanna join me (if your time and taste permits?😊)

As for my conclusions from the incontrovertible dates in 1568/69, don't build too much on them as far as this serial goes. The CVs will surely treat them with the lofty disdain they reserve for uncomfortable historical facts. I would not be surprised if Ranthambhor disappeared into the CVs' pet black hole!😉
😆 Ok ok... Mega hugs...
Shyamala Periamma