Mariam Uz Zamani-Pt1- Updt-MUZ-P39+Padshah Begum-P40+Salim and MUZ-P46 - Page 37

Originally posted by: geeta58

Hi , it was really really enlightening. Greatful fr ur research.Want to ask some questions.Er, u may think it's childish.1) Does name Mariam Zamani means anything special?Because in the show, saint salim also calls her by this name. While jodha had not changed her religion , why her name was changed? 2) Right frm my chilhood to my sons history lessons, there are a few things in common. i.e, Akbar was a great warrior, He treated Hindus n muslims equally, He had a hindu wife by name Jodhabai, a mahal was built fr her which had a temple in it. now I am confused 😕 about the hojdas or kaksh, which seem to be very ordinary frm the show.They don't even hv a door making it free fr all😉 Whereas in the contemparory show maharana Pratap we hv grand sets and kakshs with proper doors.When will they shift Jodharani to her mahal?😭 3) Was birbal a muslim? When he is going to arrive?U said Jodha was given imp. commercial dept. Did she become a minister?was birbal A chief minister?thanks to u all but fr Govarikar, n Ekta madam;s serial, this beautiful love story would not hv reached the masses😊

Let me give a few answers-
1 Mariam Uz Zamani is a title. It means Mary of the Age. Mary refers to the mother of Jesus Christ and is the highest honor any mother can have. This title was given after the birth of Jahangir.
2 There has obviously been cost cutting in the sets
3 Birbal was a Hindu. His real name was Mahesh Das. The title Birbal was given to him by Akbar, most probably inspired by a character in the Vikram Betaal stories called Veerval who is very loyal to the king

Marium Uz Zamani was a great trader. She had responsibility for the trade route to Mecca which was very lucrative at that time. Dirk Collier in his book about Akbar has written that it is recorded that Akbar had many long talks with her about her business ventures.

She had a ship called Rahimi which the Portuguese captured at one time. Jahangir in retribution ordered the conquest of the Portuguese city of Daman. Because of this action the Portuguese were never able to get a clear foothold in India.

Originally posted by: Donjas

Sorry, got slightly confused about the parentage of Man Bai. You are right, she was Bhagwan Das's daughter.

For Man Singh Being adopted, the sources are numerous. You can do a search on the internet of the various books. I will quote just one- Emperors of the Peacock Throne by Abraham Eraly.

Your objections are disturbing because if it is such a big taboo, then the only solution to the problem is that Hira Kunwari was not Marium Uz Zamani. But, I don't think, in royal families it is such a big issue to marry a cousin, in any religion.

actually if you have seen his palace... that is what they'd tell you.

Originally posted by: RTPSFanatic

@history_geek~

I have one more query. Did Hamida Bano support Jodha (in reality)? In the show they depict her as a very loving mother-in-law. Is it true? 😕

That is something we can only guess...

Originally posted by: Autumn_Rose

That is something we can only guess...

myviewprem had made a post.. it was a paper by some prof at an American University which said that Hamida only tolerated her and did not like her because she was a hindu,..

I sorta feel that she may or may not have liked her but it couldn't be due to her issues with religion. It was hindus who had sheltered her.. she was Akbar the Great's mother after all.. who was so open minded, tolerant and secular even for today's time.. these qualities have to come form somewhere,right? A mother is the biggest influence on her child...

Interestingly the most famous Mughal Ramayana in existence today was commissioned by Akbar for his mother . According to the famous historian William Dalrymple Hamida Banu Begum asked for her copy of the Ramayana to be brought to her on her deathbed.

Thank u sir😊 Very interesting Will revert to u after reading part 4.Till then another query.Was akbar really childless fr many years?What could hv been the reason? in history n Puranas, we hv ample examples of Rajas n maharajas having so many wives, and these Ranis, would be jealous of one another, and in their bid to bear the first child so that he would be the heir, they would end up always in aborting other's child😡.Is there any mention of such things in the history u came across?Actually till reading ur posts, we were of the opinion that Salim being Jodha's son is only Bollywood's imagination Secondly, in the serial they hv shown Akbar as not having his own mind (kan ke kacchhe)😉 always giving in to ladie's influences i.e Maham Anga, sometimes Ruqiyya, holding conferences with them fr imp decisions, which goes against his historical image of great warrior, n a 'mutsadhi' What is ur poinion on that?

Originally posted by: geeta58

Thank u sir😊 Very interesting Will revert to u after reading part 4.Till then another query.Was akbar really childless fr many years?What could hv been the reason? in history n Puranas, we hv ample examples of Rajas n maharajas having so many wives, and these Ranis, would be jealous of one another, and in their bid to bear the first child so that he would be the heir, they would end up always in aborting other's child😡.Is there any mention of such things in the history u came across?Actually till reading ur posts, we were of the opinion that Salim being Jodha's son is only Bollywood's imagination Secondly, in the serial they hv shown Akbar as not having his own mind (kan ke kacchhe)😉 always giving in to ladie's influences i.e Maham Anga, sometimes Ruqiyya, holding conferences with them fr imp decisions, which goes against his historical image of great warrior, n a 'mutsadhi' What is ur poinion on that?

Yes, Akbar had NO surviving child till Salim was born in 1569. He DID have children before Salim also.(Will make a separate thread for the children in some time.) Some children died early. And, some were victims of evil-doings of the lady whom Akbar gave a "mother's status".😳 (You can guess who she was.!.)

Abu'l Fazl has subtly written in his accounts for the above --> " His Majesty who gave the lady a mother's status was really broken about her role in him remaining childless.." 😕


In reality also, till 1564, Akbar was said to be under the influence of these ladies that it came to known as the "Petticoat Government" as the senior ladies of the harem wielded considerable influence on Akbar and the administration. And, not only Maham Anga, but other ladies were also present. So, probably they are portraying the same. But, the intensity of portrayal could have been more diligent with some Specific protocols being shown. In the Mughal times, it was Akbar, during whose rule women got a MAJOR stand in administration and otherwise also. Salima Begum was the one who gave her advice on MANY matters.

Originally posted by: geeta58

Hi , it was really really enlightening. Greatful fr ur research.Want to ask some questions.Er, u may think it's childish.

1) Does name Mariam Zamani means anything special?Because in the show, saint salim also calls her by this name. While jodha had not changed her religion , why her name was changed?

2) Right frm my chilhood to my sons history lessons, there are a few things in common. i.e, Akbar was a great warrior, He treated Hindus n muslims equally, He had a hindu wife by name Jodhabai, a mahal was built fr her which had a temple in it. now I am confused 😕 about the hojdas or kaksh, which seem to be very ordinary frm the show.They don't even hv a door making it free fr all😉 Whereas in the contemparory show maharana Pratap we hv grand sets and kakshs with proper doors. When will they shift Jodharani to her mahal?😭

3) Was birbal a muslim? When he is going to arrive?U said Jodha was given imp. commercial dept. Did she become a minister?was birbal A chief minister?

thanks to u all but fr Govarikar, n Ekta madam;s serial, this beautiful love story would not hv reached the masses😊

Thank You for these kind words. 😊
Though, your query has been answered. I am also responding to this.


1.
Mariam-Uz-Zamani, was a Special Title given to Heer Kunwari / Harka Bai, after birth of Salim, in 1569. This was a honorific title, bestowed on her.
This was ONLY a title, and does not requires, any change of religion.


2.
Yes, you have heard correct. Though, modern texts refer her as Jodha(also), but the actual name of Salim's mother who was the Princess of Amer, daughter of Raja Bharmal, and sister of Bhagwan Das was Heera Kunwari. This name CAN BE verified from the Royal Archives of the erstwhile kingdom of Amer. Otherwise she is called as Mariam-Uz-Zamani Begum Sahiba.

She had her Palace's' with the Hindu Temple in it. The show can NOT afford, showing all the grandeur which those Royals used to live in, but yes they are obviously cutting down the cost. 😕

If you want to see, the ACTUAL palaces / paintings, etc. of Fatehpur Sikri(FS), then visit this thread. A forum member went to FS, and she has posted Wonderful pictures from there.
Link:--> Fateh pur sikari and Jo's tomb

Regarding the doors, this is an interesting noteworthy point. Doors were really NOT present in ALL sort of buildings. I have seen some OLD pictures of these monuments and concluded this. More can be seen in the thread whose link is given above.


3.
Birbal was a Hindu Brahmin Minister / administrator / military commander / religious adviser / close friend, of Akbar, and was a commander of rank of 2000, as per Abu'l Fazl. Mahesh Das was his real name. In Mughal texts, he is quoted as "Raja Bir Bar" also. He was a close friend of Bhagwan Das, as per Badayuni's accounts. He should arrive soon in Akbar's service in the show.

Yes, Mariam Zamani Begum, had the Haj Ship's' under her command, famous one being Rahimi, and these were used to carry on the overseas trade as well. Details have been given on previous page by a member and also in the MAIN post on page-1. Akbar used to have LONG talks with her on her trade matters.😉

There is ALSO an incident around 1595(.?.I am NOT sure of the year 100%), where her trade suffered due to some European merchant, then Salim/Jahangir comes to her aid, and such was the RAGE of Salim, that before his arrival, the trade merchant, settled the dispute.😳 I had read this MONTHS back. Will try to dig that chronicle again.😊

No, She did NOT become the minister, but she had a RANK of 12,000 cavalry.

@abhay: its just my curiosity..if u want to give ans then u give it..
Had MUZ converted into Din-E-Ilahi religion? Was it 1 of the reasons behind her grave after her death?
N if u have already mentioned this in ur discusion then give me the link where u have posted it.

Originally posted by: history_geek

Thank You for these kind words. 😊
Though, your query has been answered. I am also responding to this.


1.
Mariam-Uz-Zamani, was a Special Title given to Heer Kunwari / Harka Bai, after birth of Salim, in 1569. This was a honorific title, bestowed on her.
This was ONLY a title, and does not requires, any change of religion.


2.
Yes, you have heard correct. Though, modern texts refer her as Jodha(also), but the actual name of Salim's mother who was the Princess of Amer, daughter of Raja Bharmal, and sister of Bhagwan Das was Heera Kunwari. This name CAN BE verified from the Royal Archives of the erstwhile kingdom of Amer. Otherwise she is called as Mariam-Uz-Zamani Begum Sahiba.

She had her Palace's' with the Hindu Temple in it. The show can NOT afford, showing all the grandeur which those Royals used to live in, but yes they are obviously cutting down the cost. 😕

If you want to see, the ACTUAL palaces / paintings, etc. of Fatehpur Sikri(FS), then visit this thread. A forum member went to FS, and she has posted Wonderful pictures from there.
Link:--> Fateh pur sikari and Jo's tomb

Regarding the doors, this is an interesting noteworthy point. Doors were really NOT present in ALL sort of buildings. I have seen some OLD pictures of these monuments and concluded this. More can be seen in the thread whose link is given above.


3.
Birbal was a Hindu Brahmin Minister / administrator / military commander / religious adviser / close friend, of Akbar, and was a commander of rank of 2000, as per Abu'l Fazl. Mahesh Das was his real name. In Mughal texts, he is quoted as "Raja Bir Bar" also. He was a close friend of Bhagwan Das, as per Badayuni's accounts. He should arrive soon in Akbar's service in the show.

Yes, Mariam Zamani Begum, had the Haj Ship's' under her command, famous one being Rahimi, and these were used to carry on the overseas trade as well. Details have been given on previous page by a member and also in the MAIN post on page-1. Akbar used to have LONG talks with her on her trade matters.😉

There is ALSO an incident around 1595(.?.I am NOT sure of the year 100%), where her trade suffered due to some European merchant, then Salim/Jahangir comes to her aid, and such was the RAGE of Salim, that before his arrival, the trade merchant, settled the dispute.😳 I had read this MONTHS back. Will try to dig that chronicle again.😊

No, She did NOT become the minister, but she had a RANK of 12,000 cavalry.

ur evry post is so informative that its equivalent to reading 20 books( may b more) at a tym. apart frm episode dscsns ths is 1thrd which kps the forum alive

Originally posted by: RTPSFanatic

@history_geek

I applaud your efforts in digging out facts from Mughal History and sharing them with us. 👏😃

One query- Were Hamida Begum and Jiji Anga in Jodha's support as shown in the show? Or were they against her as she was a Hindu?😕

Awaiting your reply.

Thank You buddy. 😊
I am transferring your question on this thread as this relates to MUZ. So, here is my comment.


1.
Hamida Banu Begum was/can NOT be against MUZ, as she was from a Sufi BackGround, hence secular. Abu'l Fazl has credited her to be an inheriter of the visionary blood of her great grand father, who was a great seer. Infact, Akbar got this Divine Vision from Hamida Bano Begum.


2.
She was known for her "Secular Nature" and so - the point that she can be against Jodha on the basis of religion can NOT be true. This is a simple fact.


3.
She, was given aid by the Hindu Rajput ruler, Veersal / Beersal, in Umerkot and Akbar was born there. She stayed with them. Even, prayers were done for Akbar in the temple of that ruler.


4.
It would NOT have been possible for MUZ to get so much power / hold / respect in Mughal Court / Akbar's Life, had Hamida Banu been against her . 😊


5.
And as mentioned on previous page by a member , about a 'HIGHLY reliable author' , William Dalrymple. This man is the founder member of the Jaipur Literature Festival. And, 2 years back was also the speaker at the Karachi Literature Festival. Sorry, for going off-topic, but i have read some excerpts from this author's works, and it's truly commendable. So, mentioned him. 👏

If Hamida Bano, has asked for HER copy of Ramayana(A Hindu Religious Scripture) even while breathing her last. What this shows.?. 😊


6.
After 6 days of the birth of Shah Jahan, he was given the name "Khurram" meaning the 'joyous' one. This "Naamkaran Sanskar" or the "Naming Ceremony", was done after the Hindu Rajput ritual called "Chatthi". And, Hamida Bano was VERY much a part of this event.


7.
More can be seen on this Link. This LINK speaks a LOT about the Divine visions:
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/101640341


8.
I am quoting these religious points, "ONLY" to show Hamida Bano's secular nature, so as to dispel your doubts, as you questioned if she was against MUZ due to her being a Hindu. 😊


9.
BEWARE of the sources(if any) which say Hamida Bano as being indifferent to MUZ or against Hindus. 😳 She was a chaste, innocent and highly secular lady. And, we have MANY incidents for the same.


10.
There are EVEN instances where she supported MUZ, one being after the Chittor massacre. (Will post on this later.)


Conclusion:

If Hamida Bano Begum was NOT having any such issue, why would Jiji Anga have any issues. Jiji Anga was very close to Akbar's heart. After Jiji Anga's death Akbar shaved his head. And, he shaved his head the other time after death of his own mother Hamida Bano.

BTW, Man Singh and Jiji Anga's son Mirza Aziz Koka, were ALSO on good terms. 😉