Ethics - Should it be different here? - Page 3

Originally posted by: lighthouse

Exactly Ashu... Well said..

There are millions of children born every year and as many reasons for their coming into existence.. Life has to be looked at from a larger perspective..

What if my family member or dear friend needs a kidney or bone marrow.. Of course I will help and so will others so what difference does it make why and how one was conceived.... This is such a psycho babel and egocentric thinking that one's birth has anything to do with themselves..😕

What about parents having 2nd or 3rd or 4th child in hopes of having a son.? What about children who are abandoned or given up for adoption or abused and starved by parents or guardians. Don't these children survive and be normal as they can be .? As long as a child is not killed as in female infanticide any birth and life should be special.. Imho..

The situation is slightly differnt. Here we are bringing the child in the world with the clear intention of sending it through some hurt and torture... i am not sure if thats right... commoditizing the baby is equivalent to human cloning....😊

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

You make cancer sound like Flu and BMT like tylerol..😆 There is a high risk of auto-immune diseases there and also chemotherapy may be needed along with possible radiation therapy. All that is associated with odds going against the patient...

I dont think many cases justify this...unless you can provide a medical link to that effect or some AMA report. In a one off case... its not a guarantee.... so unless there is some high survival rate indicated... i am not sure if its worth it...

For those parents who want their first child to survive and have plenty of love for the second one, one case is enough qwerty to give them hope. After all, nothing is guarantee anyway. i mean the husband could die in car wreck, the wife during second parturition, the first kid before the testing and therapy begins and second could be still birth.
Isn;t life about taking chances and grabbing every opportunity? the second kid is going to be fine even after his bone marrow gift of life to his sibling.. amazing good karma to start that life.. a blessing almost 😳
oh if i have a younger sibling save my life, i will treasure him/her next to God.

Originally posted by: lighthouse

This is such a psycho babel and egocentric thinking that one's birth has anything to do with themselves..😕
What about parents having 2nd or 3rd or 4th child in hopes of having a son.? What about children who are abandoned or given up for adoption or abused and starved by parents or guardians. Don't these children survive and be normal as they can be .? As long as a child is not killed as in female infanticide any birth and life should be special.. Imho..

Those are fantastic posts both ashu and Lighty 👏👏..

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

The situation is slightly differnt. Here we are bringing the child in the world with the clear intention of sending it through some hurt and torture... i am not sure if thats right... commoditizing the baby is equivalent to human cloning....😊

Agreed to cloning.. but it is not true because after all is said and done , this 2nd child will be loved just as much if not more and that sort of negates the reason why it was conceived..

Let's say a couple is surprised with pregancy news when they have enough children that they desired to have. It would be bad if they even thought of abortion but the fact that they let the child be born makes that child just as wanted as all others were... Life and death are in gods hands and we should not take credit for it because we think we get to decide ..!!!

Originally posted by: mermaid_QT

For those parents who want their first child to survive and have plenty of love for the second one, one case is enough qwerty to give them hope. After all, nothing is guarantee anyway. i mean the husband could die in car wreck, the wife during second parturition, the first kid before the testing and therapy begins and second could be still birth.
Isn;t life about taking chances and grabbing every opportunity? the second kid is going to be fine even after his bone marrow gift of life to his sibling.. amazing good karma to start that life.. a blessing almost 😳
oh if i have a younger sibling save my life, i will treasure him/her next to God. yes i would too only if that sibling decided to that not somebody else... its like that guy saving a kid from a well and then asking dhakka kisne maraa... 😆

@bold not in this case.. you can take chances with yourself.. not an unborn childs fate..and when you say teh newborn will be fine.. are you guaranteeing that..if yes on what grounds...

@ chances its like you could justify.. tantrik black magic of drinking a child's blood for potency or longevity or both...just cause there may be a chance even though we are not yet aware of any scientific basis.. Truth doenst have to have scientific basis identified... for it to be one...

We miss the point that we try to justify things by our convenience...chances are since the second child was more out of a commoditized need he may face dereliction (like girls having secondary status) since he wasnt supposed to be there in frst place and also it might add to the cost which the parents feel burdened by..

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

@bold not in this case.. you can take chances with yourself.. not an unborn childs fate..and when you say teh newborn will be fine.. are you guaranteeing that..if yes on what grounds...

@ chances its like you could justify.. tantrik black magic of drinking a child's blood for potency or longevity or both...just cause there may be a chance even though we are not yet aware of any scientific basis.. Truth doenst have to have scientific basis identified... for it to be one...

We miss the point that we try to justify things by our convenience...chances are since the second child was more out of a commoditized need he may face dereliction (like girls having secondary status) since he wasnt supposed to be there in frst place and also it might add to the cost which the parents feel burdened by..

1. How many people / children died ( or suffered serious consequences after) donating their bone marrow?? Let us tackle the question from this side 😛😛😛

2. black magic and medicine have nothing in common. one is false hope and one is logic-based in spite of not undermining the supreme-intervention

3. in response to let the kid decide- okay, assuming that the parents lost the first one anyway and then had a second child, since they always wanted to have ONE child anyway. Later after growing up, the child finds out that he may have been able to save his elder sibling. Oh.. I would never want to live with that guilt.. Nobody needs to ask my permission to help my kin. That is LOVE and FAMILY-TIES. 😊
ALSO, don't we always PAINT the GREATEST picture of INDIAN life-style and CARING for FAMILY? Why is "THIS"supposed to be a PERSONAL decision of the CHILD now?
People even marry people their parents choose, which is a life-time bond.. BM donation is just a one-time responsibility 😉..

Originally posted by: mermaid_QT

1. How many people / children died ( or suffered serious consequences after) donating their bone marrow?? Let us tackle the question from this side 😛😛😛 does it matter how many!!!!???? Even if one isnt it cover enough ground for risk? Bone marrow rejection is common too... so.. all said people survive drinking poison... that make it any therapeutic...

2. black magic and medicine have nothing in common. one is false hope isnt that an assumption... ? and one is logic-based possibly incomplete in spite of not undermining the supreme-intervention if science doesnt have all answers which it doesnt it cant plug faith in anyway....

3. in response to let the kid decide- okay, assuming that the parents lost the first one anyway and then had a second child, since they always wanted to have ONE child anyway. Later after growing up, the child finds out that he may have been able to save his elder sibling. Oh.. I would never want to live with that guilt..Nobody has that iota of guilt ok? Its more a thing of idealistically imaginary speculations... Nobody needs to ask my permission to help my kin. Think about renal failure... would you still think they shouldnt ask permission... That is love and don't we always PAINT the GREATEST picture of INDIAN life-style and CARING for family? thats fake idealism we tend to live upto.. In reality we dont care... Why is it a PERSONAL decision of the shild now? thats cos the child is going through the pain not the parents...
People even marry people their parents choose, which is a life-time bond.. BM donation is just a one-time responsibility 😉..I as a parent can give my liver kidney or heart to my kid but cant rob peter to pay paul with another kid...there should be better ways out here....

Originally posted by: TallyHo

Maya,

even if the second child was conceived and born for a specific purpose, I dont think he will be any less to his parents...when he comes into the world, he is his own person...the love, affection, nurturing that he receives throughout his life will never be because he was brought to life to serve a 'purpose'!

and I do know of several people who have had to plan a second child for the sake of the first...be it an extreme case providing bone marrow to an ailing sibling or just to provide companionship to the old...and I consider none of these reasons as a selfish motive to bring a soul to this earth...even if it were selfish to begin with... the selfless love that he will receive for a life time would more than make up for it!!

THji

I am in 100 % agreement with your posts. I was around when the Ayala family case happened. Just 5 miles from where we used to live. There was plenty of controversy around it. Media even made it worse. And guess what 2 nd daughter was perfect match who not only was able to save 1st one's life but now they both have siblings to grow up with. At the end of the whole thing Parents love both those girls 😊.

QWERTY, please please stick to black / ur fav color😳..
It is hard for me when u use same color ink as me. makes me wonder .. Lord, when and why did I say "THAT"? then i figure- oh wasn't me..
LOL.. kidding @ that.. but lets use color code 😊 Thanks 😃

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

You make cancer sound like Flu and BMT like tylerol..😆 There is a high risk of auto-immune diseases there and also chemotherapy may be needed along with possible radiation therapy. All that is associated with odds going against the patient...

Qwerty, Cancer is not a laughing matter to me because I am deeply associated with the cause. So I can differentiate a cancer survivor and flu "survivor".

A Cancer survivor doesn't need chemo again. I know perfectly healthy people who are leading normal lives after bone marrow transplant and even in other types of cancer I know few who went to extensive chemo lost all hair got wrinkkled skin and survived. One case was a miracle because doctor declared the patient almost dead and she started recovering. Now she is normal just like you an me. She doesn't nee any chemo but just care. 😊---------------------------------------------

Now going back to this particular case the survivor is perfectly healthy. But the ethics police have voiced their opinion and asked what if tomorrow the younger one needs a bone marrow transplant? Will the elder one give her? Because they are a match. Earlier the smaller one didn't thave voice so parents decided for her but now elder one can refuse it.