pls delete this topic thnx - Page 7

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

But can be explained and justified. - True..



This shows the level of open mindedness and respect you have towards those who hold a contradictory opinion. I would dismiss those with an opposing view as living in lala land. I understand that they have certain experiences and reasons why people hold differing views.. I don't doubt their judgement if they don't align with mine. Thinking that the opposite view is in lalaland is not conducive to successful discussion.

Oye Hello !.. get ur facts right before passing on a personal judgement as "logical fallacies" .. listen now i dont mind a healthy debate as long as you dont get personal with me.. nobody here asked you about ur personal assessment on 'Quixotic5'.. that is totally uncalled for.. funny , how a person preaching about etiquettes of a debate doesnt have any himself/herself..about my open-mindedness i think i said that everybody is free to have their own perceptions , and i feel unreasonable perceptions are just that 'unreasonable' & i have supported my claims countless times by quoting & re-quoting definitions..i will not entertain the views in the videos simply bcoz i feel the basic premise is itself faulty..and i see nothing wrong or narrow-minded in that..

P.S.. I have only limited amount of patience with this "Holier than Thou" attitude..



In that light, why engage in any discussion or debate at all? Aren't there equal number of people encouraging human rights in the name of humanity, religion, science at the same time. Couldn't the opposite side call these people the ones making something unreasonable sound sane and rational.

The least we can do is listen to the different perspectives. See why they are different from ours. Understand and dissect their rationale. Only when we open our mind and listen can we be equipped to critique an argument of having sound/unsound premises and coherent/fallacious conclusions.

- True nobody said anything otherwise..

And who is deciding who is the logical ground and who is the exaggerated perceptions? Isn't that again a matter of perception.

- Oh are 'technical definitions' now classified as 'perceptions' ? 🤔.. didnt know that ..🤓

If you want to balance chemical equations and call them quadratic equations, then by all means be my guest.



Please give me an examples of unreasonable expectations placed on men and/or women by feminism and I will refute them as actually being patriarchal expectations being mistakenly credited to feminism.

Simply tired of giving examples...🥱..i have been giving examples since previous thread "Feminism in India".. and yeah if the instances mentioned by me can be discredited as false feminism , then similarly the patriarchal evils too can be discredited as false patriarchy...Patriarchy too can be presented as a holy concept..

No feminist subscribes to dual standards or gender inequality.

- And so they claim ..



If X = 5 and Y = 10 what can you do to make X and Y equal. We can subtract 5 from Y. We can add 5 to X. We can add 2 to X and Subtract 3 from Y.

But you can never make them equal if you insist on adding/subtracting the same amount to both sides.

Feminism is a movement that acknowledges that X is less than Y and is trying to find the most effective way to balance both sides. We are not in a place yet where we can input the same to both sides of the equation and get the same result. Before we can do that we have to balance the equation.

Who said Equalism has to be about adding/subtracting the same amount when the difference is huge ? 😕 .. if one side is lacking , Equalism will try to encourage & uplift the lacking side or do you feel that it is exclusively limited to Feminism & Equalism cant do it ?..or have u already dictated the terms & conditions of Equalism ?..😕 ..is it predefined by feminists ?..😕...under Equalism , i will be doing what you do as a 'Feminst'- eradicating the huge gap & much more ,the difference being i will have a sense of being ethically right which i am no more able to find in 'Feminism'..

Good for you! - I know , thanks !..😎

Originally posted by: Quixotic5

Do you now see the difference between the etymology-definition of 'Salt-Salary' & 'Feminism' ?

@Quixotic - You are guaranteed a lifetime of frustration if you try approaching social sciences with a natural science mentality. Social concepts cannot be rigidly defined by a dictionary definition. A definition merely explains a basic premise or gist of social concepts. Social concepts cannot be rigid and fixed for time and eternity. Social concepts change with society. People can never be neatly labeled and categorized in a box.

All feminists don't think and act the same way. All feminists do not agree upon the basic requirements for equality. A lot of feminists are anti-po*nography and anti-prostitution because they consider these industries sexist and propagating violence against women. I'm one of the feminists who disagrees. There are those who believe affirmative action is the key to fight racism, sexism and other forms of discrimination. I feel that affirmative action while noble in thought is limited in function as it doesn't address other intersectional factors at play.

Yes, there are indeed feminists who have extreme definitions. Some feminists don't believe men can be feminists. Some feminists beleive that men need to punished. Some feminists actually take strong anti-male stances. Some feminists do support dual standards. This is a disconnect because their personal perception of feminism is different. Their personal perception on what methods will bring about gender equality is different. They really cannot be considered true feminists because they disconnect with the majority and have completely missed the intent of the movement.

Dismissing feminism entirely because some feminists misinterpret the spirit of the movement is like stating all Muslims are terrorists.

I think your premises are fault because you dismiss feminism because of the acts of a few. You also dismiss feminism because of the term's origins with women's rights. You have an aversion to the fact that "fem" prefix can be used to support gender neutrality. You ask questions, but refuse to watch videos that answer them because you magically know their premises are faulty. Well good that you are done because now you won't badger people as to why they aren't answering you.

PS: Why are you always on the rag?

^^ Alright return_to_hades , you have written something in your above post that compels me to write again against my best efforts & it is not to my liking. I will try once again to put forth my point of view objectively & lets see if you can comprehend this ( highly unlikely since I am dealing with a feminist here & wouldn't be surprised if you fail to see it again but I had to try one last time ) :

Originally posted by: Quixotic5

.i feel Equalism is the white knight & Feminism truly embodies black knight..

I know you probably didn't mean it that way, but do you realize how racist that sounds? Good = white, black = dark.

I think you misunderstand the way feminism seeks to help male victims.

No one is going to go to a male victim and say "Hi I'm a feminist and I will save you". All victims of rape and sexual abuse should be handled equally, with sensitivity and the support of well trained psychological and investigative professionals who know how to interact with victims.

Feminism helps male victims by changing society around the crime.

Patriarchal society tells that men are studs with high libido. It tells men that they must enjoy sex. Men laugh at other men who claim they were raped by a woman. Take the case of Molly Shattuck the forty seven year old former Ravens cheerleader who is being charged for raping a fifteen year old boy. Twitter exploded with men making fun of the victim. That he should be celebrating having sex with a cheerleader rather than cry rape. Men were making fun of him for not being man enough to enjoy sexual relations with a hot attractive woman. However, if it would have been a forty seven year old man raping a fifteen year old girl, these same men would have been up in arms about the man being a pedophile and creep.

Feminism aims to end double standards when it comes to sex. It aims to end the men are studs and women are s**ts misconceptions. It aims to establish that both men and women can experience high sex drives and enjoy a lot of sex. It also aims to establish that both men and women can have boundaries about their body that should not be violated. It also seeks to make it clear that boys and girls ought to be equally protected by statutory rape laws. It seeks to educate society that premature sex is not healthy for boys or girls and society needs to respect boundaries. If feminism is successful in its aims men would not be making fun of Molly Shattuck's victim, but sympathizing with him equally as they would have a fifteen year old victim.

Men raped by other men struggle a lot more. Male rape victims experience involuntary erections and ejaculations, that makes them feel even more guilty and conscious of it. Male victims are more likely to feel emasculated by male on male rape, especially sodomy. Men have an unrealistic notion of machismo. They are expected to be very macho and in control of their sexuality. Even in consensual male sex, the bottom is considered to be weak, inferior, effeminate and not manly enough. If it is non consensual he feels that he is stripped of his manhood, He feels that his physiological reactions means he enjoyed it and doubts his sexuality and manhood.

Feminism aims to end the notion of machismo. It aims to end the notion that men have to be macho and in control. It aims to eliminate the notions of top and bottom in sexual relations. Both partners are equal, it just is personal preference. It seeks to make men comfortable about their sexuality. It seeks to end the notion that men can be emasculated or lose their manhood by voluntary or involuntary sex acts. If feminism is successful both male and female victims won't feel shame or loss of virginity/manhood due to rape. They are more secure of themselves sexually and know that rape is the rapists fault not theirs. They become more confident about reporting rape and not fearing censure. It also makes men more sensitive and understanding to both men and women who are raped.

Men didn't come up with the idea of changing things. Men were bound to machismo through centuries of patriarchy. They were afraid to speak up and change things. Shaking up patriarchy was started by feminists. It started with notions of changing how female rape victims are viewed and evolved to include male victims too. Male feminists realized how fighting against patriarchy was helping men too.

Look, you can call it equalism if you will. You can reject the evolution of feminism to include men's rights too. You can continue to consider feminism as an evil if you will.

But let me make it very clear that as a feminist, neither I nor any feminist think rape is a laughing matter. Rape and abuse is extremely serious business. Both male and female victims of rape require the utmost level of care, sensitivity and both need to be taken equally seriously. We may disagree on whether to call it feminism or equalism. But when it comes to victims we are on the same side to protect their interests by whatever means necessary.

Post Edited : 116057892

Just an article relevant on the topic
http://www.dnaindia.com/lifestyle/report-rape-is-genderless-2037584