pls delete this topic thnx - Page 5

The name feminism comes from the fact that it started out as uplifting women (suffrage, right to work etc.).

Society sees masculine and feminine as binary. Strong, assertive, powerful, in-charge, stern, rugged, athletic are all considered "manly" and "positive" traits. Weak, sensitive, soft spoken, nurturing, small, petite, effeminate, dainty are all considered "girly" and "negative" traits. The goal is to uplift these "feminine" traits erase the "negative" connotation and make all qualities "equal" and "human". Hence "feminism".

A gender neutral concept doesn't work because you are implicitly suggesting that "feminism" is negative. It is counterproductive and conflicting to the whole purpose. A gender neutral term won't be as successful in uplifting "feminine" traits that are considered negative.

When a society has certain groups lagging behind, the key focus is to bring those group up to speed with the others. When racism prevails, the dialogue should be what can we do to bring colored minorities equal to the white majority. When that is accomplished society truly becomes color blind. When homophobia prevails, the dialogue should be what can we do to give gay couples the same rights as heterosexual couples. When that is accomplished relationships will just be relationships. When sexism prevails, the dialogue should be what can we do to bring women on par with men. When that is accomplished there won't be dual standards on how we treat gender.

At least that is how I view social changes need to be accomplished. I understand that others feel that universal principle of equality can accomplish the same. I'm very skeptical of it.

Coming back to feminism, I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your concepts that men and women are equally in this together. Racism couldn't be addressed without the white people who marched in the civil rights movement. Gay rights wouldn't exist without the help of straight allies. Feminism cannot go anywhere without equal support from men.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

When a society has certain groups lagging behind, the key focus is to bring those group up to speed with the others. When racism prevails, the dialogue should be what can we do to bring colored minorities equal to the white majority. When that is accomplished society truly becomes color blind. When homophobia prevails, the dialogue should be what can we do to give gay couples the same rights as heterosexual couples. When that is accomplished relationships will just be relationships. When sexism prevails, the dialogue should be what can we do to bring women on par with men. When that is accomplished there won't be dual standards on how we treat gender.

At least that is how I view social changes need to be accomplished. I understand that others feel that universal principle of equality can accomplish the same. I'm very skeptical of it.

Coming back to feminism, I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your concepts that men and women are equally in this together. Racism couldn't be addressed without the white people who marched in the civil rights movement. Gay rights wouldn't exist without the help of straight allies. Feminism cannot go anywhere without equal support from men.

Originally posted by: charminggenie

@Quixotic5

Lets just first understand feminism because what you are indicating is a very narrow , perception based opinion. Feminism by oxford dictionary - the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.Will quote the recent excellent speech by Emma Watson here ,"For the record, feminism by definition is:

"The belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of the political, economic and social equality of the sexes."

The interpretation of this is upto an individual. Just because the term has a feminine tone to it doesn't mean it's favouring one particular gender.

The stress is more towards empowering women and their rights because the gap is huge, there is no denying about it. Hence the aggressive propaganda , to hit out the message of equality, even if it means sometimes giving opportunities to them just because they have been denied for long and still are fighting a very active battle.

It is not about taking the rights from one gender and giving it to another. It is about bringing the two together on the same platform.

Feminism as a phenomena has a history of more than 100 years, it was originated at a time when women had minimum rights and no say in their lives or in society. Hence the concept of bra burning etc were launched to start a movement . The popularity of such practices were used to spread the message and to empower women to fight for their rights. These terms might seem negative but back then they were needed and required. Tell me if you think women empowerment is a negative term ? It also has a feminine touch ? So why does it seen in such a positive light?

The word feminism is needed or justified to an extend because it is primarily about addressing the fact that our society focuses on being "manly" as successful, so we need the "fem" focus for now to help balance out everything - and then we can become equalitists .

Also it means when a man , who understands the true meaning of being feminism and it's principle of gender equality , says that , "He is a feminist ", it makes gender a very neutral term . The attention goes to the word feminist because we take it as a female term when the whole message and sentence is making the most gender neutralizing point- He and feminist, together .

Originally posted by: charminggenie

Quoting you , " i never hesitated from calling myself a 'male feminist' prior to being introduced to modern twisted feminism"...

A curious question, feel free to ignore , but before you were introduced to whatever modern notion of feminism - Were you perfectly ok being called a "male feminist" , so what changed? Have you stopped believing in the "old" feminism which according to you was about women's right and not twisted?

Why cannot we take pride and say , Yes I am a feminist but my definition of feminism is .. XYZ? Why demean a concept and a phenomena which is essential and whose basic premise we all agree?

Oh I respect you enough and trust that your ideas of feminism and women empowerment are encouraging. Doubt I would need to teach their importance to anyone in this modern world. But I was merely curious about why so much reaction and unnecessary stress on the negative connotation of an all to innocent sounding word , especially when as you mentioned at one point you have no problems being addressed as a feminist.

Originally posted by: Quixotic5

Honestly , Feminism is no rocket science irrespective of what all the modern feminists claim it to be..it was a simple & important movement designed for uplifting the status of women in a society plagued by patriarchal evils..thats where it got its name too , encouraging & uplifting females .a.k.a. 'feminism'..

I like how simplified and suffice this is . Sadly this simplicity has become a complex problem that we have been unable to solve for years now. Perhaps , while it is no rocket science , its not so that simple also. But then again, personal opinions.

Freedom, Independence,Equality,Selfishness,Selflessness etc are generic terms with a valid meaning applicable in & changing as per the different contexts.. Feminism on the other hand was/is a 'movement'.. would you say the meaning of the "Quit India Movement" has evolved over the years ?.. certain concepts are down in the dictionary & represent one thing ..the difference between the "Quit India Movement" & "Feminism" is that unlike the former, the latter is still existent & had to endure a certain type of evolution.. an evolution that made the word loose its meaning..now everybody seems to have their own meaning & perceptions about this term.. and perceptions cant be validated..definitions certainly can be..

Well agreed Quit India movement is static and has not changed, similarly 1848's declaration of sentiments, 1920's right to vote for women all achieved under the wave and patronage of feminism stand unchanged , part of history. Even the bra-burning parade and it's relevant of that day remains significantly unchanged. But like freedom which for India at that point meant removing of slavery and driving Britishers out, now refers to "corruption free India". One word different meaning over the years. Similarly, feminism has undergone see of differences over the years. It's upto us which we want to focus on. Like freedom , feminism is broad. Freedom for a child can be eating an extra chocolate and feminism for some loony be castrating males. The key is defining your own doctrine.

Islam is well defined and documented so is Christianity and Hinduism, but we do modify and carve out our own meanings and definitions , so why now do the same with feminism.

P.S.. considering the multiple twisted perceptions & its evil intentions , i would rather call myself a 'women's rights supporter' rather than a 'feminist'...

Alas, I am stuck being a feminist who will hold on to it's meaning of equality for all. Promise no evil intentions there😆