~ Padmavati: what's real and what's not. ~ModNotepg28

SluttySavitri thumbnail
9th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 7 years ago
#1

Since I had nothing to do today I decided to research a little and debunk some of the rumours going around about Rani Padmini and her portrayal in SLB's Padmavati.

Disclaimer: I'm going to post the facts proved by historians only because they are what actually matters even though they might hurt some people's sentiments.


Sources:

I compiled a list of all the sources I've used and posted them all in one place: HERE.

Edited by -smolderhalder. - 7 years ago

Created

Last reply

Replies

205

Views

18k

Users

53

Likes

543

Frequent Posters

SluttySavitri thumbnail
9th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 7 years ago
#2

Yes and no. She exists as a legendary figure but there's no historical proof of her and her story actually being real.

Padmini, also known as Padmavati, was a legendary 13th-14th-century Indian queen. The earliest source to mention her is Padmavat, an epic poem written by Malik Muhammad Jayasi in 1540 CE.


"Padmavati was an exceptionally beautiful princess of the Singhal kingdom (Sri Lanka). Ratan Sen, the Rajput ruler of Chittor, heard about her beauty from a talking parrot named Hiraman. After an adventurous quest, he married her and brought her to Chittor. Alauddin Khilji, the Sultan of Delhi also heard about her beauty, and attacked Chittor to obtain her. Meanwhile, Ratan Sen was killed in a combat with Devpal, the king of Kumbhalner who was also enamoured with Padmavati's beauty. Before Alauddin Khilji could capture Chittor, Padmavati and her companions committed Jauhar (self-immolation) to protect their honour."


Padmavat:

Is an epic poem written in 1540 CE by Malik Muhammad Jayasi. Jayasi himself suggests that is meant to be an allegory, not a narration of a historical event.

It is a fictionalized version of the historic siege of Chittor by Alauddin Khilji in 1303 CE, who attacks Chittor after hearing of the beauty of Queen Rani Padmini, the wife of King Rawal Ratan Singh.

According to Jayasi, Chitor stood for body, Raja for mind, Ceylon for heart, Padmini for wisdom, Alauddin for lust, and Ashraf Jahangir Semnani as an ideal spiritual guide.

Other versions of the legend:

Persian and Urdu adaptations

Between 16th and 19th centuries, at least 12 Persian and Urdu translations or adaptations of Malik Muhammad Jayasi's Padmavat were produced. More Urdu versions appeared in the 20th century, all adhering to Jayasi's love poetry tradition.

Rajput ballads

In 1589 CE, Hemratan composed Gora Badal Padmini Chaupai, the first Rajput adaption of the legend, presenting it as a "true tale". Between 16th and 18th centuries, more Rajput versions of the Padmavati legend were compiled in present-day Rajasthan, under the patronage of the Rajput chiefs. Unlike Jayasi's theme of courting and marriage, the Rajput adaptions emphasized their honour in defending their kingdom against Alauddin Khilji.

James Tod's version

During 1829-32, James Tod included a colonial re-telling of the legend in his Annals and Antiquities of Rajas'han. His version was based on the information compiled from the oral and textual traditions of writers employed by the Rajput chiefs. Epigraphic evidence contradicts James Tod's claim that the contemporary ruler of Mewar was Lakshmanasimha (Lachhman Singh), not Ratnasimha (Ratan Singh or Ratan Sen).

Bengali adaptions

From late 19th century onward, several Bengali versions of legend were produced, when James Tod's work reached there. These Bengali narratives portrayed Padmavati as a Hindu queen who immolated herself to protect her honour against a lustful Muslim invader.

If she wasn't real then how did she become a historical figure and monuments were made in her name?

When the British writer James Tod, who is now considered to be unreliable, compiled the legends of Rajasthan in the 1820s, he presented Padmini as a historical figure, and Padmini came to be associated with the historical siege of Chittor. In the 19th century, during the Swadeshi movement, Padmini became a symbol of Indian patriotism. Indian nationalist writers portrayed her story as an example of a heroic sacrifice, and a number of plays featuring her were staged after 1905.

By the 20th century, some elite Rajput women of Rajasthan characterised Padmini as a historical figure who exemplifies Rajput womanhood. Although there is no historical evidence that Padmini existed, she has become a symbol of valour and sacrifice in Rajput history. Hindu activists have characterised her as a chaste Hindu woman, and her suicide as a heroic act of resistance against the invader Khilji.

Why does SLB's Padmavati's attire resembles Jodha's attire so much?

Because they're both from Rajasthan.

Edited by -smolderhalder. - 7 years ago
SluttySavitri thumbnail
9th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 7 years ago
#3

Alauddin Khilji's siege of Chittor in 1303 CE is a historical event, the legend of Padmini has little historical basis and modern historians have rejected its authenticity.

Several late medieval chroniclers have adapted the Padmavat legend as history, but most modern historians have rejected as unhistorical. Historian Kishori Saran Lal points out several absurdities in the Padmavat legend. For example, according to historical evidence, Ratnasimha had ascended the throne in 1301, and was defeated by Alauddin in 1303. On the other hand, Padmavat claims that Ratnasimha spent 12 years in quest of Padmini, and then 8 years in conflict with Alauddin.

Padmavat was written 237 years after Alauddin's conquest of Chittor, and no writers contemporary to Alauddin mention Rani Padmini.

The later medieval historians such as Firishta and Hajiuddabir adapted the Padmavat legend as history. However, their accounts also suffer from inconsistencies. For example, Firishta states that Alauddin ordered his son Khizr Khan to evacuate Chittor in 1304, and then appointed a nephew of Ratnasimha as its new governor. Historical evidence shows that Khizr Khan left Chittor much after 1304.

Besides the medieval Persian historians, the later Rajput bards also adapted and expanded the legend, without consideration to historical facts.

The close resemblances in the various legendary narratives about Padmini indicate that all these accounts are based on Jaisi's Padmavat. Niccolao Manucci also mentions the story in his Storia do Mogor, but places it during the 16th-century king Akbar's invasion of Chittor. On the other hand, none of the contemporary 14th-century historians, poets, and travelers mention this legend.Based on these evidences, Kishori Saran Lal concludes that the only historical facts in the legend are that Alauddin captured Chittor, and that the women of the fort (including a queen of Ratnasimha) died in jauhar. Banarsi Prasad Saksena believes that even the jauhar narrative is a fabrication: the contemporary chronicler Amir Khusrau refers to the jauhar during the earlier conquest of Ranthambore, but does not mention any jauhar at Chittor.

Edited by -smolderhalder. - 7 years ago
SluttySavitri thumbnail
9th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 7 years ago
#4

No one knows exactly. The legend describes her as extremely beautiful and her beauty has been compared to that of Cleopatra.

Since there's no actual description of how Rani Padmini is supposed to look like, each artist has a different vision of her based on what they consider beautiful - because beauty is and will always be subjective.

No one is messing with history because there's no history, to begin with.

I'd just like to clear one rumour that's been going around on Instagram and Twitter especially:


^This isn't a portrait of Rani Padmini.

It's a posthumous portrait of Mariam-uz-Zamani aka Jodha Bai. The artist is unknown but it was made in circa 1850.

Here's the proof: CLICK
Edited by -smolderhalder. - 7 years ago
SluttySavitri thumbnail
9th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 7 years ago
#5
Aaand I'm finally done editing everything.


Jk. It was actually fun to learn all these new facts and be able to separate facts from fiction.


I know it's an impossible thing to ask but I'll try anyway: can we please keep discussions civil and based on facts (not tourism websites, blog articles etc) here?
Edited by -smolderhalder. - 7 years ago
Amrita thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Achiever Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 7 years ago
#6
Great Thread⭐️

Lots of information--Thanks for sharing:)

Mallika-E-Bhais thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Trailblazer Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 7 years ago
#7
Good thread! You put in everything of consequence & hopefully this will clear everyones confusion.
Maharani69 thumbnail
Engager Level 4 Thumbnail 8th Anniversary Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 7 years ago
#8
While you at it, fix that CC also na!
SluttySavitri thumbnail
9th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 7 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: Maharani.

I am speechless. 😆


In a good way or a bad way?



Originally posted by: Maharani.

While you at it, fix that CC also na!


Which one? :o
If you're talking about ours, I don't have any posts reserved on the first page :(( you gotta do it.
Edited by -smolderhalder. - 7 years ago
Maharani69 thumbnail
Engager Level 4 Thumbnail 8th Anniversary Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 7 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: -smolderhalder.


In a good way or a bad way?




Idk. You just always leave me speechless.😆

Btw, my fav gif!!!! omgah.

Maharani Padmavati rocks Let's debunk theories. Go slay queen Ami. 🥳

Related Topics

Bollywood Thumbnail

Posted by: oyebollywood

12 days ago

Vivek Anand Oberoi - Dubai Real Estate

https://x.com/vivekoberoi/status/1948270116279325155

https://x.com/vivekoberoi/status/1948270116279325155
Expand ▼
Bollywood Thumbnail

Posted by: Zeal17

2 months ago

For real.. they are making this show?

Is this some apri fool joke in May...

Expand ▼
Bollywood Thumbnail

Posted by: mintyblue

5 months ago

Bolllywood is facing a REAL crisis

Why Do Only Mindless Action, Sequels, and Islamophobic Content Work in Bollywood Today? In recent years, Bollywood has struggled to produce...

Expand ▼
Bollywood Thumbnail

Posted by: nushhkiee

8 months ago

Aishwarya Rai Divorce Rumors: What's the Real Story?

I know this topic has likely been discussed before, but I’d like to share my perspective on it.... Lately, there have been growing rumors...

Expand ▼
Bollywood Thumbnail

Posted by: sharaban

6 months ago

THE DEATH OF REAL BOLLYWOOD - by Sooraj Barjatya

This video just dropped off. SB made somw really great points about today's semi-dead Bollywood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv4cmLCtiS4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv4cmLCtiS4
Expand ▼
Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".