What is pseudo feminism? My view. - Page 4

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Posted: 10 years ago
#31

Originally posted by: KochurShaakBata

Feminism is definitely not a problem.But I do have a problem with pseduo feminism.I wouldn't call what the Rohtak sisters did pseduo femism,it's the reaction of people in social media which include many of my friends that I call pseudo feminism.I don't even know whether pseudo feminism is even a word or not but you know these days anyone can be a journalist with viral sites like scoopwhoop,etc and I feel when an incident happens, many of them become bandwagoners and try to act like a feminist when they are not. I have a problem with that.News has to be reported covering both the sides of the story,but sometimes only one side is reported when such incidents happen.Not just social media,talk about television or newspapers, none of them bothered to follow up and investigate the Rohtak incident beyond the first video.

Even in the Bangalore school rape case, a skating instructor was arrested and then after a few days he was announced innocent by the police.In between the days he was in jail, his FB profile pic was splashed on the front page of city newspapers, with literally everyone in social media (including me) abusing the shit out of the skating instructor.I guess I have gone a bit out of topic but my complain is what you have mentioned in the last line.Coming for a protest march against the rape of the Bangalore school girl,taking a selfie,uploading and getting hundreds of likes is not fighting for women's rights,blindly following every random viral video and social experiment and abusing the opposite gender like there's no tomorrow is not what I think is feminism.Infact like you said,things like these are tarnishing every other cause in the country, including feminism.



We have a twofold problem here.

The first part is that true journalism is dead. We no longer have people responsibly reporting facts. Media wants to cash in on viral trends and sensationalism. There is no research behind a story. Sometimes they even overlook serious stories. The focus is on what will outrage people and cause a frenzy.

The next part is that people are looking for a bandwagon to jump on. Very few people actually understand issues. They just feel that they need to be part of it because everyone is doing it. They want to feel like they are making a difference and part of something big. They feel outrage and frenzy is the thing to do so.

The plight of women in India is indeed a serious issue. India needs a feminist wave to balance its society. It is unfortunate that media excess and overreactions are tarnishing the image of the feminist movement. In both the cases the real problem is the people who overreacted without thinking or fact finding. I agree that they are not really feminists, but pretending to be feminists. However, I'm hesitant to call them pseudo-feminists. Feminism is already suffering from negative connotations. Pseudo feminism just adds fuel to the fact that feminism is a sinister movement with so many erratic branches. These people are nothing more than bandwagoners. They stand for nothing and fall for everything. These are the same people who will worship someone one day, condemn them the next depending on the way the wind blows. They do it not just for feminism but any cause.

I feel we need a better term for all people who conduct irrational and extreme vigilante justice just to be part of a bandwagon.
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Posted: 10 years ago
#32

Originally posted by: Quixotic5

So if I am an Equalist & not a Feminist , i am 'misogynist making excuses'.. 🤔 .. fair enough , thats a classic Feminist logic i must say .. ⭐️.. great ! so anybody who is not a feminist is a woman-hater ! 👏


No, not you. Those who actually do. You are the other type who hate it because people have misused it, that's fine. I hate this feminism in U.S too because it is not feminism.

But Feminism should be in India, M.E, ETC. Just because some have hijacked it, we shouldn't let it. Many women don't have rights.
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Posted: 10 years ago
#33
The cruelties against Women have been going on unpunished and unaccounted for soo long that society's tolerance has reached a breaching point. You call it psedo feminism, I call it the InevInevitable !!! The sad part is even with increased mob interventions (as per your post) crimes are not going down. So I suppose we need more interventions.. Let the burden of not getting molested shift from women to Men more. .
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Posted: 10 years ago
#34

Originally posted by: Rolzz

The cruelties against Women have been going on unpunished and unaccounted for soo long that society's tolerance has reached a breaching point. You call it psedo feminism, I call it the InevInevitable !!! The sad part is even with increased mob interventions (as per your post) crimes are not going down. So I suppose we need more interventions.. Let the burden of not getting molested shift from women to Men more. .


That's a good point, but has it ever occurred to you that men too might have been burdened just as women are difference being men never speak out mainly because it is considered unmanly if a man cries & complains like a woman ( both men & women do it thankfully Madhuri Dixit is speaking up against it ) & besides who would believe a man if he complains?.. do you think men were never / are never at the receiving end of injustice from the opposite sex ?.. its not just cruelties against women that went unnoticed & unaccounted since ages , there are a lot of things that went unnoticed & unaccounted since ages & sadly still are..

Do you honestly believe that such mob cruelty is the sweet sweet justice ?
Edited by Quixotic5 - 10 years ago
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Posted: 10 years ago
#35
Mob trial is totally wrong , give it power the next moment it will snatch freedom from u only. Same with social network trial. Mob mentally works when they see there is no immediate confrontation or danger , forget about these issues they will kill people as simple as branding someone thief even 2rs cloth thief etc. Its nothing to do with crime against woman or right or wrong.

The first step of cure is acknowledge the disease or problem. We just cant cure it with wishes by saying all are equal. When we advocate equality the same time we should first have to accept and acknowledge the existence of inequality , which is far wider in society like ours.

Yes women are as evil as we men , after all all of us are of same human belong to species homospeians. Yes many women misuse different laws, indulge in domestic planning plotting cruelty etc. Even in crime like female foeticide , dowry death woman are active participants which indicate the mentality of society as whole . That does not mean we discard the reality like gender cruelty , sexual attack, gender discrimination.

When we speak about opposite sex discrimination , how many men face say acid attack, death like dowry death , eve teasing , male foeticide , rape from ? Imagine If these things happen to us then forget everything we would stop the whole world from functioning.

Most importantly society change and move towards a progressive one with the united effort rather than confrontation between male vs. female. Just like when someone tagging every stranger man as rape mentality while data shows only 10% crime committed by strangers.

Its wrong to drag it to gender confrontation. just for example even women were not allowed to even basic like voting in colonial era or in say developed US just 100 years back which is even exist in country like saudi arabia even today. A change is possible when the whole society take an effort to change .

When a society try to change simultaneously it bring a good movement of say feminism with some bad elements like say pseudo feminism that does not mean we should discard the good movement altogether. I dont think these are over discussed topics. We may show disgust on all these discussion but is it not intriguing that why in this large forum where women constitute 90% members in IF , they discuss everything on earth but how many threads or discussion concentrate dedicate for discussion of their own may be not even 0.00001%. Its not necessarily we should associate , tag with terms like feminist etc. Its just a thought process to move from a regressive society to a progressive one.
Edited by Bazigar - 10 years ago
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Posted: 10 years ago
#36

Originally posted by: Bazigar

Mob trial is totally wrong , give it power the next moment it will snatch freedom from u only. Same with social network trial. Mob mentally works when they see there is no immediate confrontation or danger , forget about these issues they will kill people as simple as branding someone thief even 2rs cloth thief etc. Its nothing to do with crime against woman or right or wrong.

The first step of cure is acknowledge the disease or problem. We just cant cure it with wishes by saying all are equal. When we advocate equality the same time we should first have to accept and acknowledge the existence of inequality , which is far wider in society like ours.

Yes women are as evil as we men , after all all of us are of same human belong to species homospeians. Yes many women misuse different laws, indulge in domestic planning plotting cruelty etc. Even in crime like female foeticide , dowry death woman are active participants which indicate the mentality of society as whole . That does not mean we discard the reality like gender cruelty , sexual attack, gender discrimination.


Most importantly society change and move towards a progressive one with the united effort rather than confrontation between male vs. female.

Its wrong to drag it to gender confrontation. just for example even women were not allowed to even basic like voting in colonial era or in say developed US just 100 years back which is even exist in country like saudi arabia even today. A change is possible when the whole society take an effort to change .

Its not necessarily we should associate , tag with terms like feminist etc. Its just a thought process to move from a regressive society to a progressive one.


The above quoted words - I agree 100%

Originally posted by: Bazigar

We may show disgust on all these discussion but is it not intriguing that why in this large forum where women constitute 90% members in IF , they discuss everything on earth but how many threads or discussion concentrate dedicate for discussion of their own may be not even 0.00001%.


From personal experience on IF , i beg to differ .. may be you wont see these discussions happening frequently in Daily soaps forums (or may be it does if the on going tracks in the serial are relevant) but it does happen in relevant discussion forums like Debate Mansion.. i myself have been a part of only handful of forums - Devon ke Dev Mahadev ,Mythological Masti, Debate Mansion, Harry Potter & now this one .. except Harry Potter forum , this topic popped up in all other forums that i have been a part of.. 😆

Originally posted by: Bazigar


When we speak about opposite sex discrimination , how many men face say acid attack, death like dowry death , eve teasing , male foeticide , rape from ? Imagine If these things happen to us then forget everything we would stop the whole world from functioning.


So you mean to say that nothing THAT bad ever happens to men .. and if it did ,Men would stop the entire world from functioning.. interesting.. you should read this Prevalence & may be then you might see why crimes against men go unreported.. this stereotyping mentality is whats wrong with the world.. we "Men" aren't born with a special luxurious magical power that protects us from/against crimes..we are not born kings or rulers of the world to say that we would stop the world from functioning if something bad happens to us.. bad stuff happens to both men & women , men dont report due to the fear of being stigmatized which has its roots in such stereotypes .. boys/men are indeed subjected to violence of every kind just as girls/women are but estimation is difficult due to the previously mentioned reasons ..
Edited by Quixotic5 - 10 years ago
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Posted: 10 years ago
#37

Originally posted by: Quixotic5


The above quoted words - I agree 100%


From personal experience on IF , i beg to differ .. may be you wont see these discussions happening frequently in Daily soaps forums (or may be it does if the on going tracks in the serial are relevant) but it does happen in relevant discussion forums like Debate Mansion.. i myself have been a part of only handful of forums - Devon ke Dev Mahadev ,Mythological Masti, Debate Mansion, Harry Potter & now this one .. except Harry Potter forum , this topic popped up in all other forums that i have been a part of.. 😆


So you mean to say that nothing THAT bad ever happens to men .. and if it did ,Men would stop the entire world from functioning.. interesting.. you should read this Prevalence & may be then you might see why crimes against men go unreported.. this stereotyping mentality is whats wrong with the world.. we "Men" aren't born with a special luxurious magical power that protects us from/against crimes..we are not born kings or rulers of the world to say that we would stop the world from functioning if something bad happens to us.. bad stuff happens to both men & women , men dont report due to the fear of being stigmatized that has its roots in such stereotypes..boys/men are indeed subjected to violence of every kind just as girls/women are but estimation is difficult due to the previously mentioned reasons ..



1. Out of 100 topics there may be on an average 1 topic will be there. In debate mansion may be some 5% topic will be there. IF have every forum starting from cricket to gadget do it have forum addressing their issue.

2. I already said domestic violence occur , many take advantage twisted law etc. that does not mean i can remotely equal gender violence . Imagine the reverse on an average 40000 rape , few thosand dowry death, few hundred acid attack , few honour killing , eve teasing happen , diktkat khap pnachayat etc. by women . I know how we function forget bharat band we would do world bandh 😆

3. Just an example how we treat gender crime . Recently in that uber rape case that lallu turned out to be a serial rapist and eve teaser . He got away every time due to laxity in law and police, few did not filed complain due to castigation in society , few said if they had filed case then society would have tagged them characterless. All in all that lallu claim himself Casanova. Obviously he is a male but he does not represent us and certainly those say 40000 does not represent us so there is no question of male vs. female . We should treat them more as criminal .

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/More-rape-survivors-speak-up-against-Uber-driver-Yadav-his-aunt-among-them/articleshow/45483054.cms

Edited by Bazigar - 10 years ago
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Posted: 10 years ago
#38
I don't blame people for assuming a mob mentality. There are far too many instances of gender violence popping up in every nook and corner, and a lot of cases seem to fade away in oblivion without proper punishment to the culprits. Add to that the comments from some of the political glitterati about how its really the women who "make men do it".

I'm not justifying the pseudo-feminist mentality in total, just pointing out how its natural for people to presume that the man is the culprit, in any doubtful circumstance. I'll take it a step further and say, until and unless the Guardians of Law tighten their vigilance and the rape rate in general marks a drop, we'll have more such innocent men falling prey to mob justice.
Edited by krystal_watz - 10 years ago
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Posted: 10 years ago
#39
I agree with you. I being a girl blame the girls too.Boys should not be blamed always. If one fruit is rotten ppl assume that the others are also rotten.
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Posted: 10 years ago
#40
The recent deaths of Michael Brown, Eric Garner and Tamir Rice have stirred controversy in USA. The questions about racism and social justice are back on the discussion table. The revival of civil rights and social justice movements in the United States have given me perspective on feminism as well. There are many similarities between the two movements, and the responses to critiques are pretty similar.

1) A civil rights movement is archaic and irrelevant in modern times.

Excuse: There are several anti-discrimination laws in place. Programs like affirmative action are there in place to ensure equality and make a difference. We need to focus on equality rather than racism.

The truth: There is systematic racism against people of color especially African Americans. Black people are more likely to get shot or violently attacked by police than their white counterparts. Black people get harsher sentencing for crimes compared to white people who do the same. Black people are more likely than white people to grow up poor and underprivileged. Black people are more likely than white people to experience subtle discrimination. There are hundreds of minor invisible factors that add up to a system that is racist.

Similarly, feminism is not archaic or irrelevant either. Statistically, women are far behind men in many aspects ranging from wages and quality of life to mortality and being victims of abuse.

2) You are obsessed with racism.



Excuse: Black people are obsessed with racism and think about it all the time.

The truth: As a privileged majority white people rarely experience systematic discrimination. Third party narratives and accounts barely express the challenge of being black in America. Racism is actually a system that threatens their life and livelihood. Racism holds them back from living a fulfilling and meaningful life. It is natural and logical that addressing racism be their number one priority. It is absurd to tell them to count their blessings and not be concerned with it.

Similarly, patriarchy holds back and is harmful to women much more than man can actually see. It affects aspects of their life from birth to death. It is absurd to tell women that they are obsessed with feminism and women's rights when their livelihood depends on it.

3) Changing #BlackLivesMatter to #AllLivesMatter

Comedian Arthur Chu eloquently addressed this in his tweets
https://twitter.com/arthur_affect/status/538015166634680320
https://twitter.com/arthur_affect/status/538014928448524288

http://blackmillennials.com/2014/12/01/what-you-mean-by-alllivesmatter/

Similarly, no shit men matter as much as women too. Sorry that your life as a man is so tragic and challenging, but can we talk about the elephant in the room or does it need to sit on your face for you to notice it?

You cannot reshape a narrative questioning the imbalanced scale into a narrative about a balanced scale.

4) But what about black on white or black on black crime.

Excuse: Racism isn't the important issue because black people kill other white people and black people too.

The Truth: Like all lives matter this is a distracting tactic to shift the narrative away from the inequality issues on hand. The real issue on hand is preventing racial prejudices against people of color, to examine why society is harsher on people of color. Crime is a social issue, but hate crime is a very widespread and dangerous issue that has many sociocultural factors that must be addressed. There is a long historic narrative of racially biased abuse.

Similarly, men are victims too. However, gender based violence and sexual violence against women is a significant issue that needs to be addressed. It stems from a history of patriarchy and treating women as property to be used and abused. It is not that male victims of abuse do not matter. It is that there isn't a historic or cultural narrative that condones abuse of men.

5) Not all white people are racists. I am not racist. I have black friends. I think everyone should be treated equally.

The Excuse: White people are often hesitant to openly align themselves with civil rights movements. The prefer to go for the softer narrative of equality rather than black rights. They are afraid to sound biased or accusatory against their fellow white counterparts. They feel joining in black solidarity is somehow anti-white or unequal in some sense.

The Truth: Not all white people are racists, but all white people benefit from white privilege. The majority and powerful population always directly or indirectly supports prevailing social systems. Expecting white responsibility is different from calling all white people racists. By showing solidarity with black people and their issues white people acknowledge the systematic biases and fight it. Focusing on the softer equality narrative pretends that there are no biases and does nothing to uplift discriminated people to equality.

Similarly, not all men are misogynists or rapists, but they benefit from patriarchy. As the historically dominant group the systems of patriarchy rest on them. Acknowledging feminism and participating in it does not make men traitors or anti-men in anyway. It merely acknowledges the historic disparities and willingness to fight it. The softer all people are equal approach puts the blinders on to the fact that there are centuries of patriarchal injustice that need to be undone.


Finally, the protest riots and other unfortunate side affects cannot be used to dilute the fact that Michael Brown, Eric Garner and Tamir Rice were victims of racism.

http://www.renegademothering.com/2014/12/09/discovered-white/
http://qz.com/250701/12-things-white-people-can-do-now-because-ferguson/

These two articles by white people discovering white privilege and promoting the fight against racism.

Similarly, pseudo feminism, mob justice and other unfortunate side affects cannot be used to dilute the fact that there are many rape victims and women are the primary target of domestic abuse and sexual violence. The articles against racism can also serve as a template for the cause for feminism.

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