Astitva - cultural differnces - Page 3

Good points Vazz. Let me also add that I worked in India last year (for a week) on my visit there and I have to say that the Indians there now (especially the younger generation) have done a good job in taking the best from both cultures..

I just could not 'shut up' anymore...😃I agree with most of what XYZ and Vazz said. However, here is my two cents worth *crossing fingers that the server doesnt delete it*

I feel that it is important to know things like reasons behind why Draupadi has 5 husbands, and be able to express it to our kids. Because fables and myths and history (in cases other than mahabharat) are the best tools to impart cultural background to the next generation. I am a typical jeans wearing, tomboyish individual from India but my cultural identity is never called into question by me or people in my life (there are a lot coz i teach). I feel that this "hanging out with boys by girls" stuff arises from taboos in the society regarding dating, hanging out etc. Either it is rebellion or it is the acceptable form of having friends. 20 years ago, it was unacceptable to even shake hands with people of the opposite gender. I am sure that it is a generation gap issue among Indians and non-Indians also. As far as the youth becoming too irrepressible - it is the complaint you will hear from every single individual, young or old. The younger generation is always going to be more brazen...expecting them to be otherwise is irrational. In the US, Indians cling to their traditions and rituals in order to feel that they are imparting 'sanskars' to their children without realizing that by thwarting the wishes of their children, they are breeding a whole future generation who lose their identity - not being in close family groups like they would have been in India - they do not identify with the rituals except as an exercise. Being kept in wraps regarding mingling with the cultures in the west, they fail to identify themselves with people here. Classic ABCD issue occurs. I know so many Indians that come from India and would never marry an ABCD. A lot of westerners also shy away from the ABCD crowd because these people have no self-identity.

At least the generation growing up in India has a strong sense of being Indian, being from India, knowing India, understanding India, loving India - so what if they express themselves differently than what we used to when we were growing up...'values' and 'customary acceptance' are almost mutually exclusive concepts in the modern day and age of internet & technology. We should not be hasty in judging the 'books by their covers'...

OK so this was more than just two cents worth...lets make it two rupees worth!! (ya, i still value indian currency higher in my heart even though the economy seems to indicate otherwise)

Originally posted by: krutilynn

I just could not 'shut up' anymore...😃I agree with most of what XYZ and Vazz said. However, here is my two cents worth *crossing fingers that the server doesnt delete it*

I feel that it is important to know things like reasons behind why Draupadi has 5 husbands, and be able to express it to our kids. Because fables and myths and history (in cases other than mahabharat) are the best tools to impart cultural background to the next generation. I am a typical jeans wearing, tomboyish individual from India but my cultural identity is never called into question by me or people in my life (there are a lot coz i teach). I feel that this "hanging out with boys by girls" stuff arises from taboos in the society regarding dating, hanging out etc. Either it is rebellion or it is the acceptable form of having friends. 20 years ago, it was unacceptable to even shake hands with people of the opposite gender. I am sure that it is a generation gap issue among Indians and non-Indians also. As far as the youth becoming too irrepressible - it is the complaint you will hear from every single individual, young or old. The younger generation is always going to be more brazen...expecting them to be otherwise is irrational. In the US, Indians cling to their traditions and rituals in order to feel that they are imparting 'sanskars' to their children without realizing that by thwarting the wishes of their children, they are breeding a whole future generation who lose their identity - not being in close family groups like they would have been in India - they do not identify with the rituals except as an exercise. Being kept in wraps regarding mingling with the cultures in the west, they fail to identify themselves with people here. Classic ABCD issue occurs. I know so many Indians that come from India and would never marry an ABCD. A lot of westerners also shy away from the ABCD crowd because these people have no self-identity.

At least the generation growing up in India has a strong sense of being Indian, being from India, knowing India, understanding India, loving India - so what if they express themselves differently than what we used to when we were growing up...'values' and 'customary acceptance' are almost mutually exclusive concepts in the modern day and age of internet & technology. We should not be hasty in judging the 'books by their covers'...

OK so this was more than just two cents worth...lets make it two rupees worth!! (ya, i still value indian currency higher in my heart even though the economy seems to indicate otherwise)

Beautifully put Kruti!! So well put. I actually had tears well up when I read this part "At least the generation growing up in India has a strong sense of being Indian, being from India, knowing India, understanding India, loving India - so what if they express themselves differently than what we used to when we were growing up...'values' and 'customary acceptance' are almost mutually exclusive concepts in the modern day and age of internet & technology. We should not be hasty in judging the 'books by their covers'." It was so well put! My thoughts exactly! Whenever I go to India (Which is very often by the way and I also get to relate to many of the kids there a lot), I see a distinct difference between teenagers there and here, mostly because many of them are highly confused here..Not to say that all are, but many certainly are..Wonderfully said.. 👏

Krutilyn . I agree with you and Vazz . all of you have expressed your self beautifully . Me too likes the part about " not judging the book by the cover " .

I am so glad so many of you have shared yr views about this topic which proves one thing....we are all passionate about India!

When i wrote this post i did not just mean wearing jeans makes one more western. I wore jeans when i was in college and i still wear them. One has to change with time but we have to make sure that changes are positive. I visit Bombay and I have to agree with Sree that atleast in Bombay things have changed so much over past few years.

I agree with those who pointed out that western does not mean bad. I have so many American friends who have very similar family and cultural values as we do. But I strongly beleive that it is extremely imp to have a sense of identity irrespective of where you live. We celebrate Diwali in our kids' schools and we celebrate it at home. EVerything has its own importance. Knowing few shlokas and stories are also important. I remember my daughter's 5 year old friend could tell me the entire story about why she could not eat pizza during passover week when she was over at our house for a play date. It is that sense of knowledge about one's culture that creates identity.

I usually get to observe middle class and upper middle class in bombay and one thing that i have noticed is spending power has risen so much. People, adults as well as youngsters prefer to spend more time with friends rather than family. Teenagers are always conversing in English and rarely use the mothertongue and i put responsibility of that to the parents because parents who are in their 20s or 30s or 40s are also speaking in English. Literature in Indian languages is getting extinct. Again don't get me wrong - I am not generalizing but these are some of the thing that are so obvious that you just can't ignore. Go to a bookshop like crossword or even a modest bookstore like R.R. Sheth 90% of books are in English; the reason being the other books don't sell!

There is a vast disparity between lifestyle of lower class and that of middle or upper middle class of india and the gap seems to be constantly increasing as the time passes. You read news about people dying when they don't have money to pay college tuition fee or farmer dying so that family would get compensation from the government and at the same time you see people who are wasting time and money on frivolous matters. I am not saying that this is something unique to India but ours is a young democracy with one of the oldest culture. We can be world's leading country if we pick the right thing from western culture while maintaing our strong values.

BTW, little off topic but has anyone seen a show called "Little House On Prairie"? My favorite serial! It really portrays original western values.

Please continue the discussion even though we may not agree with each other.

Trupti one good thing about Indians speaking English is its one unifying language . Where in India each state has a different language . Even Hindi is spoken in different accents - Bihari , bambaiya( Mumbai) , punjabi etc etc .At least there is one language - English that most people from a certain section can speak . Gets South closer to North and West to the East !! If we look at the big stores selling books in English , another observation i'd like to make is that Indian authors ( even if they write in English) sell a lot . Infact Indian authors are sold a lot in Barnes & Nobles and Borders . That makes me feel proud !! English became a part of us when the British left it behind as a legacy for us . Its part of our history too .

Where as ecomomic divide in India being very drastic - thats another issue , that could make a interesting topic later . 😛

Trupti, I agree with you on the spending and affordability of middle class India.. But I guess the point we are all trying to make is that the basic value of respect, modesty, decency, value in relationships, etc. has not changed...Not in middle class for the MOST part anyway. As for English, even I think in English and spoke in English the majority of the times in school and with friends and that's probably the language I am most comfortable with.. But I do know how to speak Tamil and Hindi well too. I find it is still the same in many parts of India (Bangalore, Hyderabad and Chennai as these are the palces I visit most often.)..People are still very very passionate about celebrating festivals and are very respectful when in temples, etc.. It is great to know Shlokas and Mantras but not by rote as is often the case I find with many Indians in the US (Do not mean to generalize). Basically the bottom line is Indians in India are much more passionate now about their country than they were probably 2 decades ago..That's my point and I guess many of the others were trying to make the same point as well.

Indian culture in a way defines rules for healthy living aswell. But I have observed most of the youth in 20s are boozing, smoking alot these days compared to 10 years ago. There is also increase in both male and female having them. I guess the pubs culture is also very poplular these days and they end up having all the bad habits. Just my observation but i could be wrong.

I think the way you dress does not make you modern or backward. I know of jeans clad people behaving in an abominably orthodox fashion.They wear jeans or tight tops simply to be cool and part of what they consider to be the 'in ' crowd .

sorry sree di i would beg to differ
just wearing jeans does not make one modern or hip or even immoral

what one person does to himself/herself is entirely his choice

though ewven i have imbibed the same set of values as u have ( no premarital sex girls and boys shud not mix much with each other) i certainly cannot judge other persons that they are wrong

if a girl or a guy indulges in premariatl sex hanging out with the other gender boozing drinking that does not necessarily make him bad
what makes a person bad is if he hurts others in any way
if he does not hurt me whatever he does shud be fine with me
morals are very relative
what may seem outrageous to me may be very conservative to another
anyway even i am veg, temple going, teetotaller, non smoker dont do drugs
dont party or indulge in ***
but that doesnt make anyone who does that bad
the bottom line is if u r comfortable doing it do it
society should not point at u