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Ophelia

@Ophelia

Voyager

Posted: 17 years ago

#31

@ Arun Sampath

My post was meant for the contestants, Why would they need to worry about setting their instruments to concert pitch? Concert pitch as a term holds no relevance here. Only the pitches high and low notes within the scales of the song would apply as they would need to adjust their voices accordingly to the notes within the composition.

The background music is approximately 3.5 beats per second or 210 beats per minute. Maybe you can give me a better estimate just by "going with your gut" and not doing your math by counting.

I don't have time to debate with you as I have already given my explanations.I'm busy mentoring my contestants. You should just give feedback on the participant's recordings this is the purpose of the thread or give your own suggestions further debating on my post holds no relevance to me. I won't reply back it would be futile.

My tips were my personal opinions for improvement in singing I'm not obliging you to agree. It was meant for those in the contest. You can feel free to give your own that would be more useful than just debating on mine. It makes no difference to me if you are still in disagreement.

Edited by Megha25 - 17 years ago

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Arun Sampath

@arunsampath

Beginner

Posted: 17 years ago

#32

Originally posted by: Megha25
@ Arun Sampath

My post was meant for the contestants....
<snipped>

I will be away from the forum for a while to deal with a grave personal situation. But just briefly, none of the standard definitions you cite repudiate my original point that pitch (however you define it) does not change in a composition. Concert pitch (equivalent to a sa in Indian compositions) is the only relevant thing here because the sa does change in a small subset of hindi songs. Technical jargon aside, it would have been nice if you could have illustrated your point with an example. About BPM, I didn't think you would fall for the bait with the smiley and all that but the point is that the info (210 BPM) still doesn't help me set the tempo.

I believe that two people should be able to politely agree to disagree without having to lash out...

Peace.

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Ophelia

@Ophelia

Voyager

Posted: 17 years ago

#33

Originally posted by: arunsampath

I will be away from the forum for a while to deal with a grave personal situation. But just briefly, none of the standard definitions you cite repudiate my original point that pitch (however you define it) does not change in a composition. Concert pitch (equivalent to a sa in Indian compositions) is the only relevant thing here because the sa does change in a small subset of hindi songs. Technical jargon aside, it would have been nice if you could have illustrated your point with an example. About BPM, I didn't think you would fall for the bait with the smiley and all that but the point is that the info (210 BPM) still doesn't help me set the tempo.

I believe that two people should be able to politely agree to disagree without having to lash out...

Peace.

Megha25

Hindi compositions are set to the pitch sa. FALSE.

Are you forgetting ra ge ma pa da ni all of these pitches along with sa make up a scale like do re mi in english. Yaar how do you not know the basic scale of music. ALL COMPOSITIONS HAVE SCALES MADE UP OF MORE THAN ONE PITCH sa re ga ma pa da ni sa/ do re mi fa so la ti do.

Concert pitch has nothing to do with Pitch the meanings are not at all related it is amusing to hear you try and make the same incorrect point over and over again. If you believe Pitch does not change in a composition than you are gravely mistaken you can ask any mentor on this forum or anyone with some knowledge of musical terms. About the arguments. You were the one who provoked me by your impoliteness in claiming that concert pitch was well understood concept and challenging me to take your quiz. Prior to that I was rather polite in answering your queries I even defined octaves, rising falling notes and tempo queries for you. I even offered you to pm me for further queries.

You ask for peace after provoking an argument but Peace anyway

Edited by Megha25 - 17 years ago

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Arun Sampath

@arunsampath

Beginner

Posted: 17 years ago

#34

Originally posted by: Megha25

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Morgoth

@Morgoth

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 17 years ago

#35

pitch, as far as i know, stands for how low or high a note is on the staff.

as far as concert pitch is concerned - it is related to transposing instruments mainly. the Bb of a clarinet, F of a french horn = a C in written (piano music).

hence if the concert pitch of a piano is C, then the concert pitch of a clarinet will be Bb.

as far as, tempo goes - it can be very difficult to figure out the exact speed without written sheet music. you need to know the beats per bar and which note gets a beat (many songs dont always use a quarter note or Maelzel's metronome).

arun, when you say that a song "anchors around a sa" do you mean use "sa" as the key?

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Arun Sampath

@arunsampath

Beginner

Posted: 17 years ago

#36

Originally posted by: Morgoth

pitch, as far as i know, stands for how low or high a note is on the staff.

as far as concert pitch is concerned - it is related to transposing instruments mainly. the Bb of a clarinet, F of a french horn = a C in written (piano music).

hence if the concert pitch of a piano is C, then the concert pitch of a clarinet will be Bb.

as far as, tempo goes - it can be very difficult to figure out the exact speed without written sheet music. you need to know the beats per bar and which note gets a beat (many songs dont always use a quarter note or Maelzel's metronome).

arun, when you say that a song "anchors around a sa" do you mean use "sa" as the key?

Yup.

For example, for the Rangeela title song, the sa is at the very first letter "ya"yire yayire. where as in hamesha tumko chaaha from Devdas, the first letter in the antara starts in the sa. (I realized that for kal ho na ho, I had it wrong and it does begin with the sa though of the higher octave.)

Edited by arunsampath - 17 years ago

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Ophelia

@Ophelia

Voyager

Posted: 17 years ago

#37

Originally posted by: arunsampath

Yup.

For example, for the Rangeela title song, the sa is at the very first letter "ya"yire yayire. where as in hamesha tumko chaaha from Devdas, the first letter in the antara starts in the sa. (I realized that for kal ho na ho, I had it wrong and it does begin with the sa though of the higher octave.)

@Margoth he was trying to claim that sa is the only pitch used in a composition if he was referring to key there is still more than one key used in a composition.

Why don't you just admit your wrong Arun Sampath? You claim there is only one pitch in hindi compositions they are set to sa in "concert pitch"

This is obviously false the pitches sa re ga ma pa da ni sa make up a scale. Compositions cannot exist w/o scales made up of more than one pitch.

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Arun Sampath

@arunsampath

Beginner

Posted: 17 years ago

#38

Originally posted by: Megha25

@Margoth he was trying to claim that sa is the only pitch used in a composition if he was referring to key there is still more than one key used in a composition.

Why don't you just admit your wrong Arun Sampath? You claim there is only one pitch in hindi compositions they are set to sa in "concert pitch"

This is obviously false the pitches sa re ga ma pa da ni sa make up a scale. Compositions cannot exist w/o scales made up of more than one pitch.

No more comments.

Over and out.

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Ophelia

@Ophelia

Voyager

Posted: 17 years ago

#39

Originally posted by: arunsampath

No more comments.

Over and out.

Megha25

👏🏻 Now there will be no more misunderstandings on musical terms. Thanks for the relief.

Over and Out

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Morgoth

@Morgoth

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 17 years ago

#40

i believe there has been some confusion between the terms pitch and key.

pitch, as megha says, is simply the frequency of a single note. nothing more.

what arun is referring to is the "key" (a key signature of a full scale such as C+, C-, D+, D- etc.) which typically does not change in the song unless there are specific scale changes.

@ arun: interesting hypothesis on most indian songs being in the key of a "sa", but i don't think that's always true.

you could argue that a lot of indian songs are based in a major key (C+, D+, etc) considering that happier love songs tend to dominate.

anyway, that's a different topic by itself - great food for future discussions.

for the contestants:

sorry, i couldn't hear your songs this time around due to lack of time. i am sure some of you must be confused by the terminology, LOL. don't worry.

what you should take from this discussion:

1) just adjust the song to fit your own vocal range - i.e. find your key (it does not have to match the original song).

2) and make sure that you hit the right note (a high A is not the same as a low A). this is where pitch comes in.