what makes for a good singer - Page 4

But Rafi's voice suited almost everyone else, even Rajesh Khanna ("baagon mein bahhar hai"). Of course, I loved Rafi's voice best on Dev Anand, Shammi K and Johny Walker. Nothing to beat the combination of Johny Walker and Rafi!

Johny Walkers was unique voice which I never heard again.Not even his son has that voice.It is said that.while recording the first song for for Johney Rafi invited him to his house for Lunch had studied his mannerism very closely and discussed with him about the song that was to be recorded the next day.And when they recorded that song(I believe Sar jo tera chakraye)Johney was asked to interject a few phrases in to the song.Every one can see the result.I dont think any one else sang for Johney after that.Such was the dedication to the work.And that is why he is a legend.

And Talat was best suited for Dilip Kumar - soft, romantic, brooding. Sometimes, when I hear Talat, I feel it is he who can NEVER have CLONES. It was an absolutely unique voice and I think he is one of the only singers whose voice did not deteriorate throughout his singing career. His last movie Jahanara is as good as the first.

Jahan Ara was not his last film. Madan Mohan used him for Haqeeqat ( Ho ke majboor mujhe usne bhulaya hoga' along with Rafi,Manna and SD Batish. Naushad used hime for a duet in Aadmi.(Kaisi haseen aaj baharon ki raat hai) Laxmikant and Pyarelal always wanted to use his voice but never had the oportunity. But in one of their lesser known films they offered him to sing a duet with Lata('Mohabbat ki kahaaniyan sunane lagi hain jawaaniyan') I have the song but I do not know the name of the movie.

Even though Talat sang many hit numbers for Dilip Kumar. Rafi created super hits for Dilip Kumar. Naushad, Rafi and Dilip combination was super magical one for melody. Listen to all songs from Kohinur, (Maduban mein Radhika') 'Do sitaron ka zammen par hai milan' Or Songs fron Aazad, 'Chalenge teer jab dil par' Dhal chuki Shame gham, or Raam aur ashyam, ' Aayi han baharen mithe zulmo sitam'
Or Kalyanji Ananji's 'Sukh ke sab saathi Duukh mein na Koi' from film Gopi

He voice suited hand in glove for Rajendra kumar, Biswajeet, Joy Mukharji, Shashi Kapoor etc

Rafis Versatality was such that even where other singers cloned for a few heros whenever Rafi sang for the same hero you could never say oh this voice does not suit this hero etc The point in question is Amitabh and Rajesh Khanna take songs from 'John Johny Janardhan, Abhiman, or for Rajesh Khanna in Do Raaste, 'Burning Train' or in 'Aan milo sajna' the song 'Rang rang ke phool khile'

With each song he got better .Even his last song for Sanjog was 'Tum mujhe bhula na pavoge' sounded so very fresh

Yazz you rock man.. you are right... but if you notice the preferred group structure like

SJ - Mukesh, Lata, Asha, Rafi (almost no kishore.. except in some movies) But Rafi
SD - Rafi, Kishore, Lata, Asha, Geeta dutt (no mukesh)
OPN - Asha, Rafi, Geeta dutt, Mahendra kapoor, Kishore, mukesh (the last 2 hardly) (no Lata)
MM - Lata, Lata, Lata, Lata, Rafi, Asha, Kishore, Bhupinder!! (no mukesh except in Sanjog or some movies)
RD - Kishore, kishore, kishore, Asha, Asha, Lata, Lata, rafi. (no mukesh.. except in few)
Naushad, rafi, rafi, rafi, Lata, Lata, Lata (no kishore, mukesh)

then there were heros who couldnt settle for any other but a specific singer
Dilip - rafi all the way(yehudi was an exception)
Dev Anand - rafi when young, Kishore when successful and old all the way.
Rajesh Khanna - rafi, then Kishore all the way!!
rajendra kumar - rafi
Raj kapoor - mukesh all teh way
Shammi - rafi all the way

and do the songs sound bad.. not at all. Infact give a choice I will pay twice as more for these oldies collection than the "best of abhijit crap" CD..or someting like that.... Thanx

Yazz you rock man.. you are right... but if you notice the preferred group structure like Thanx

SJ - Mukesh, Lata, Asha, Rafi (almost no kishore.. except in some movies) But mejority of their compositions were sung by Rafi
SD - Rafi, Kishore, Lata, Asha, Geeta dutt (no mukesh) Also Talat
OPN - Asha, Rafi, Geeta dutt, Mahendra kapoor, Kishore, mukesh (the last 2 hardly) (no Lata)
MM - Lata, Lata, Lata, Lata, Rafi, Asha, Kishore, Bhupinder!! (no mukesh except in Sanjog or some movies) Also Talat (quite a few)
RD - Kishore, kishore, kishore, Asha, Asha, Lata, Lata, rafi. (no mukesh.. except in few)
Naushad, rafi, rafi, rafi, Lata, Lata, Lata (no kishore, mukesh) Did you forget Andaz, Yahudi (Dilip Kumar) all songs were by Mukesh and Saathi (Rajendra Kumar)

then there were heros who couldnt settle for any other but a specific singer Dilip - rafi all the way(yehudi was an exception)
Dev Anand - rafi when young, Kishore when successful and old all the way. Rajesh Khanna - rafi, then Kishore all the way!! Also Anwar (Janata Hawaldar
rajendra kumar - rafi
Raj kapoor - mukesh all teh way I remeber 2 songs by Rafi (Andaaz, Satyam Shivam Sundaram) And Also Mannadey
Shammi - rafi all the way Shammi used to have a contract with the producer saying that only Rafi will play back for him some thing no other play back singer in the entire hindi film Industry enjoyed or honoured with

and do the songs sound bad.. not at all. Sound bad? You can listen to most of them over and over again Infact give a choice I will pay twice as more for these oldies collection than the "best of abhijit crap" CD..or someting like that....

I have gone through entire chain here and it seems there were lot of arguments about Rafi's versatility and many other points.
Since I came across many names like Manna da, Mukesh, Sanu, Kishore etc.. here is my view on all of them.

1> Rafi : If you want to set any benchmark on how to sing (playback) , listen to Rafi. He can sing almost anything (romantic, ghazals, semi classical, sad songs, quawalli, patriotic songs, bhajans etc.) He has a very good range. I think he is no1 male singer of Hindi booywood industry. Some one was talking about Rafi 's voice not suiting Amitabh. I rather disagree. Here are some songs he sang for Amitabh,… Abhimaan – Teri Bindya. Mr natwarlal – Oonchi oonchi bato se, Nasseb song – john jani , almost all suhag songs like –kaal ke panje se mata ., teri rab ne bana di jodi , and song from one amitabh – neetu sing movie.. tumse door rahke humne jana pyar kya hai.. I agree that Kishore's voice suited to amitabh more but when Amitabh was at peak in late 70 and 80's music taste had changed. The melody was kind of gone compared to 50's and 60's era. It was more western music and less poetry and classical touch. But in all, Rafi was GOD and much above his competitors like Kishore and others.
2> Manna Day – I met him personally and he spent almost 2 hours with me back in 95 when he was in Mumbai. He has a gr8 voice for classical singing. He used to call Mukesh besura and I rather agree. Some of his best songs are aae mere pyare watan, ek chatur naar, phho gandva na maro and many more. He was also very versatile in terms of range and types of songs. however his voice did not suit all heros like Rafi. I put him at no 2 after Rafi (only in male singers)
3> Mukesh – I used to listen his songs a lot and used to like them too! He had very limited range and could not sing at high notes. He was nasal and may be bcos of that his voice suited sad songs. He got some really nice songs thanks to lyrics writers and music composers.
4> Kishore - some ppl put him above Rafi but I disagree. some ppl call him very versatile, but I disagree here too. He was good in romantic and fast paced songs. He had a very good throw in his voice but his voice did not suit ghazals, classicals , bhajans and many other types of music. I put Udit narayan above him just bcos his voice is much more sweeter than him. Even Udit has a very good throw in his voice just like Kishore. Again, this is just my view.. you guys can disagree.
5> Sanu – OMG…. If you want to know how to sing – u listen to Rafi. If you want to know how NOT to sing – you listen to Mr. Sanu. I do not know how he ruled 90 to 94 era despite of singers like Udit, Suresh Wdkar, Hariharan etc. It seems ppl do not have good taste of music and that is why singers like Sannu, lucky ali, Nitin Mukesh etc. survive in bollywood
6> Talat – very sweet and silky voice. I love his voice. I know he had limited range but for ghazals he was king. I put him way above jagjeet singh
I can write more but I think it is enough for now..
Take care - Vipul

Some of Rafi;s songs that touched my soul - well there are lots but I wil put very few here...

1> din dhal jaye hai raat najaye. - listen to this song with all lights off and i am sure you will get divine touch
2> Basabt Bahar - Duniya na bhaye - pure classical and very nicely sung
3> Bhabhi - Chal oodja re panchii - nie lyrics and well sung
4> Hakikat - Main yeh sochkar uske dar se ootha tha - loaak at the pain in lyrics and voice. nice one
5> Mere mehaboob - Ttle song - nice poetry
6> Pyassa - Jinhe naaz hai hind per wo kanha hai --- hats of to Sahir Ludhiyanvi. He is my favourite too
7> Kashmir ki kali - Diwana hua badal
8> Tumsa nahi dekha ?? - Jawaniya yeh mast mast - pure melody and full marks to rafi ... woh kya kahete hai really 10/10
9> well -i can add many more but i think i will stop...


7>

What do you all have to say for my comment regarding the deterioration of voice quality Rafi and Kishore over the years? In the later years, Kishore had simply lost that special quality he had before and Rafi's "Yamma yamma" bears little resemblance to his golden years.

It was only TALAT who maintained his quality all along. Thanks for letting me know about the songs he sang after Jahanara, such as Haqeeqat. Well, he stayed unspoilt till the last movie. I feel Talat did not get his due and was sidelined because of giants like KK and Rafi. 😭

Vipul
if possible listen to a non filmi ghazal of Rafi, 'Zikr us pareevash ka aur phir bayaan apna" a Ghalib ghazal.

What do you all have to say for my comment regarding the deterioration of voice quality Rafi and Kishore over the years? In the later years, Kishore had simply lost that special quality he had before and Rafi's "Yamma yamma" bears little resemblance to his golden years.

My opinion is different than yours I did not find any deterioration in the voice quality of Rafi any time at all infat his voice quality was much better than in late 40's.Remember he was only 54 years when he died and he never smoked or drank alchohol through out his kife and he took special care of his voice. As for Kishore he drank a lot yet and you could be right about him
It was only TALAT who maintained his quality all along. Thanks for letting me know about the songs he sang after Jahanara, such as Haqeeqat. Well, he stayed unspoilt till the last movie. I feel Talat did not get his due and was sidelined because of giants like KK and Rafi.

2 points I absolutely adore Talat, I have attended many of his concerts but in his very last song "Mohabbat Ki Kahaniyan" with Lata shows some degree of deterioration but he was much older than either Rafi or Kishor. 2nd point is Talat was sidelined by Rafi not Kishor because When Kishor re-entered the field in 1969 Talat was long gone.Before 1969 Kishore was a very minor force.Only after Mannadey, Mukesh and Mahendra Kapoor