RangRasiya Creativity missing a Woman's touch - Page 17

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tttttt1 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
@FLS
Please stop using religious scripture to lend credence to what essentially is another skewered love story of a man who hates to love and a woman who loves to love The Gods will take offence bas😡
😆

you really hate rukmini dont you
it is okay ,what i understood from my experience asa tele soap veiwer is we all need to hate somebody

like rudra hates paro
GH hated logic
i hate cvs(only when i get dekna hai to dekho)
forum hates laila

@Exprimere
seems like these makers visit IF very often ,apparently the promo tread views exceeded 57000 , so every reaction is being watched

now you tell me with the state of the forum do you think you can have a "lavanya kind of closure with laila

if they wanted to just see what people want why dont they just float a survey or some disguised market research
my understanding on all this , in a creative field like this , it never works can get what people liked , can never predict what people will like , it is not a hand wash
we have awesome examples friends , modern family all these show were completely rejected in the market research of pilot episode

Edited by tttttt1 - 11 years ago
eveline thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
If I actually let go of what I feel about the way cvs develop and treat a woman's character, I would end up sounding more acidic and vitriolic than Rudra or the sensation creating, loudly screaming journos on so called indian news channels...so will try and keep it decent. 😊
Yes, SJ without a doubt, the cvs of indian telly shows can never understand women (and I know it sounds very assertive but that's the way I feel), forget a proper depiction. For them, and for men for centuries, women usually fall in only two categories...the white or the black. Men in general refuse to see women as real humans beyond these two shades, and the creative men behind indian telly especially excel here.
Pick any show at random, and guaranteed you will either see the extreme white female lead...the cliched typical, self sacrificing, all knowing, sermonizing, crying at the drop of a hat, perfect daughter, wife, bahooo, mother human being, the be all end all super woman of all times, who can cook, clean, run businesses, sudharofy the whole samaaj, the whole world, bring about revolutions and revelations everywhere and anywhere...gosh how I hate this depiction!! The devi avatar. She is the Jhansi ki Raani, Ghar ki Lakshmi, Rachael Ray, Martha Stewart, Indira Gandhi, Cat woman rolled in one. ( I was going to add Mary Kom but resisted😃)
Or if not, than you will guaranteed see the extreme black, the modern dressed (yup the attire if contemporary only means one thing...she is the vamp...), heavily made up, lustful, conniving, manipulating, career oriented, mercenary, regardless of life and love, wont bat an eye at doing anything...vamp. In all honesty, I would prefer such woman...they at least seem human 😃!!
There are no in between.
We don't exist, the normal, sometimes good sometimes bad, often brave, often scared, vulnerable yet strong, smart yet foolish, emotional yet practical...the ones that make the world go round...we just don't exist. period. We are not multi layered or dimensional, we don't have any facets or personalities...nope only male characters deserve that...female characters can only be linear, the heroine or the vamp. We can either be kicked or worshipped!!
The women of today, like you and me, like all of us, who work, who study, who create, who make careers, who laugh and cry, who fight and survive, joke and jell, who run offices and homes and governments and nations, homes and families...we are aliens, an unknown, unidentified, feared species, that are best left ignored...
Phew...sorry for my rant. But have not found a single show where I could see me, us, being part of the story. One show...is it too much to ask??? Coming back to RR...I will never forgive the cvs for what they did to Paro, my Paro. They turned her from a simple and brave, quietly firm and mature girl into a religious fanatic. A pure zealot, so white that she ended up blinding me. They made her a caricature with her symbols and sermons, her constant religious inspirations, her sudden life altering actions, and beliefs, her not making sense to a realist like me, actions. Heck, they didn't even grant her the time, the justification of falling in love. She didn't even deserve that??? Once again, I lose my heroine to the vagaries of a male creative mind, turning her so illogical that all love and respect and empathy take a back seat.
About depicting romance in the real way...nope don't expect. There has to be pushing, pulling, twisting wrists, pinning to the wall, intimidation, sexual tensions, enforced proximities under totally nonsensical and ridiculous situations in order to show the new age romance. Lets just royally ignore the fact that a man if in real life behaves with us in such a manner, we will kick him in the right place and jail him (if not worse) with real pleasure, forget fall in love. And also forget the message that is being sent out to the millions of young impressionable girls out there, watching this sadistic mcp view of a love story, and figuring that abuse is the 22nd century interpretation of love.
But then what can you expect from men trying to be women, men trying to think, feel, act and react like women?? But then again, beggars cant be choosers, and so this female, ranting and raving, will again tune in tomorrow to eagerly lap it all up...after all do I have an option??
Edited by eveline - 11 years ago
meera30 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
My question is this, SJ

Does any show on Indian TV actually incorporate an honest woman's touch. Even the biggest women names in the business have brilliantly abused cliches when it suited them, choosing to ensure clear black and white women while almost ALWAYS allowing for grey male characters so that the story could be twisted when needed.

I don't follow RR but I saw a promo today and I honestly didn't see anything I haven't seen before (infact it seemed a lot like SOMETHING i saw rather with too much interest a while back) - a hero drags his woman to a mandap, forces her round it seven times, fills her maang with sindoor (has it ever been blood before?) and promises to punish her by never being hers.

The makers here did it. A woman before this did it. THE woman who created this genre itself (saas-bahu dramas) did it at the inception.

PS: Hey, SJ!!! :D:D


golpokobita thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: ttt1


@smriti
she is not us , she is different from us, hmmm
but i understand when i read a story about a superman , or animated characters or a mythological story where it is gods and goddess , they are not like me nor are their priorities
if we only understand ourselves and our small world ,it is a dangerous world
the problem i see is there are projected a normal girl as "parvati " to reason all what is going on with her , and get her married

they havnt decided whether she is to be made as real or surreal


I bet they haven't!
serialjunkie thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: meera30

My question is this, SJ


Does any show on Indian TV actually incorporate an honest woman's touch. Even the biggest women names in the business have brilliantly abused cliches when it suited them, choosing to ensure clear black and white women while almost ALWAYS allowing for grey male characters so that the story could be twisted when needed.

I don't follow RR but I saw a promo today and I honestly didn't see anything I haven't seen before (infact it seemed a lot like SOMETHING i saw rather with too much interest a while back) - a hero drags his woman to a mandap, forces her round it seven times, fills her maang with sindoor (has it ever been blood before?) and promises to punish her by never being hers.

The makers here did it. A woman before this did it. THE woman who created this genre itself (saas-bahu dramas) did it at the inception.

PS: Hey, SJ!!! :D:D



Hey hey hey! look who is here!!!

😆 Now you've got me thinking whether those makers were indeed women?

Or

I should rephrase my topic header to "Sensible" woman's touch.


ayshaomar thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: eveline

If I actually let go of what I feel about the way cvs develop and treat a woman's character, I would end up sounding more acidic and vitriolic than Rudra or the sensation creating, loudly screaming journos on so called indian news channels...so will try and keep it decent. 😊

Yes, SJ without a doubt, the cvs of indian telly shows can never understand women (and I know it sounds very assertive but that's the way I feel), forget a proper depiction. For them, and for men for centuries, women usually fall in only two categories...the white or the black. Men in general refuse to see women as real humans beyond these two shades, and the creative men behind indian telly especially excel here.
Pick any show at random, and guaranteed you will either see the extreme white female lead...the cliched typical, self sacrificing, all knowing, sermonizing, crying at the drop of a hat, perfect daughter, wife, bahooo, mother human being, the be all end all super woman of all times, who can cook, clean, run businesses, sudharofy the whole samaaj, the whole world, bring about revolutions and revelations everywhere and anywhere...gosh how I hate this depiction!! The devi avatar. She is the Jhansi ki Raani, Ghar ki Lakshmi, Rachael Ray, Martha Stewart, Indira Gandhi, Cat woman rolled in one. ( I was going to add Mary Kom but resisted😃)
Or if not, than you will guaranteed see the extreme black, the modern dressed (yup the attire if contemporary only means one thing...she is the vamp...), heavily made up, lustful, conniving, manipulating, career oriented, mercenary, regardless of life and love, wont bat an eye at doing anything...vamp. In all honesty, I would prefer such woman...they at least seem human 😃!!
There are no in between.
We don't exist, the normal, sometimes good sometimes bad, often brave, often scared, vulnerable yet strong, smart yet foolish, emotional yet practical...the ones that make the world go round...we just don't exist. period. We are not multi layered or dimensional, we don't have any facets or personalities...nope only male characters deserve that...female characters can only be linear, the heroine or the vamp. We can either be kicked or worshipped!!
The women of today, like you and me, like all of us, who work, who study, who create, who make careers, who laugh and cry, who fight and survive, joke and jell, who run offices and homes and governments and nations, homes and families...we are aliens, an unknown, unidentified, feared species, that are best left ignored...
Phew...sorry for my rant. But have not found a single show where I could see me, us, being part of the story. One show...is it too much to ask??? Coming back to RR...I will never forgive the cvs for what they did to Paro, my Paro. They turned her from a simple and brave, quietly firm and mature girl into a religious fanatic. A pure zealot, so white that she ended up blinding me. They made her a caricature with her symbols and sermons, her constant religious inspirations, her sudden life altering actions, and beliefs, her not making sense to a realist like me, actions. Heck, they didn't even grant her the time, the justification of falling in love. She didn't even deserve that??? Once again, I lose my heroine to the vagaries of a male creative mind, turning her so illogical that all love and respect and empathy take a back seat.
About depicting romance in the real way...nope don't expect. There has to be pushing, pulling, twisting wrists, pinning to the wall, intimidation, sexual tensions, enforced proximities under totally nonsensical and ridiculous situations in order to show the new age romance. Lets just royally ignore the fact that a man if in real life behaves with us in such a manner, we will kick him in the right place and jail him (if not worse) with real pleasure, forget fall in love. And also forget the message that is being sent out to the millions of young impressionable girls out there, watching this sadistic mcp view of a love story, and figuring that abuse is the 22nd century interpretation of love.
But then what can you expect from men trying to be women, men trying to think, feel, act and react like women?? But then again, beggars cant be choosers, and so this female, ranting and raving, will again tune in tomorrow to eagerly lap it all up...after all do I have an option??


Probably deterring a little from the original post but i have always wanted to see a female lead who is more on the grey/not so positive/not extremely negative side aka more real
So basically where the woman has the role men usually have with all them layers and what not
Yes Yes i am going for super wishful thinking but one has to have hope even when you know it will never happen😳
gangaprakash38 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: serialjunkie


Hey hey hey! look who is here!!!

😆 Now you've got me thinking whether those makers were indeed women?

Or

I should rephrase my topic header to "Sensible" woman's touch.





Correction darling, I would suggest catching a "common" woman's perspective is missing if you are looking for an alternate name.

I guess the discussion has digressed in so many directions, there is no point in pulling back! But what i thought you started was a common woman's point of view. Queen and blue jasmine retain this perspective. The issue is not of female or male team leading the show or how many times have we been served the same stuff before. Its about how convincingly is it served. I don't know if anybody remembers Bade ache lagte hai in the first year... although not completely, but most of the time the serial did justice to how a urban born 30 year old would think or act or dress. It was hugely successful ...for that matter the show enjoyed a huge male fan base.

but as i said we have deflected a lot here.
Edited by gangaprakash38 - 11 years ago
current thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Can I add another perspective here..
The premise is a love story ..that is what RR is
so in indian telly soaps ..
Either two people adore one another...which is really boring..
Two people hate each other with a vengence but circumstances have brought them together...hmmm more interesting because the promise of making up..of gearing up for a purpose...I for one find the love based on hate more interesting because the protagonists are more evenly balanced..takkar ki hain...but here there is a fine line where RR crossed ..where things start getting ugly...there is force..and the right for supremacy..the right to prove a point..
Now here we have a lop sided love sided love story..one is in love and the other is not..
so if the female is in hero worship of the man..the chase is still there but resilience or persistance or preserverance of purpose takes many forms ..what may passive to some..or regressive..or disconnected..may be a sense of purpose to others...
The core point is to drive the story forward..and this is where we are at, the chase is what keeps me glued and the day it is over I am done..
Just wanted to get this off my chest...as I said before and a lot of other people have too that there is nothing new or different we have seen before.
Oyster thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: serialjunkie


Hey hey hey! look who is here!!!

😆 Now you've got me thinking whether those makers were indeed women?

Or

I should rephrase my topic header to "Sensible" woman's touch.



Sorry for being an intruder, but this convo aptly sums up my point.

As much as I would like to blindly go with your criticisms SJ, I have some serious disagreements here. Adding to meera's contention, Sanaya's previous show was headed by a supposedly independent, modern-thinking, progressive woman. The show was her child, remember? But please explain to me if you ever even vaguely noticed a proud woman's artistic touch in Khushi's character. To me Paro is far better than Khushi in so many respects. So it's not about woman. It's not even about sensible woman as such cuz I am sure Gul Khan would never want herself to be Khushi in real life. But she created Khushi because the character has a popular appeal and her "foolishness" kind of helped foreground the grandeur of the male lead. So why not is probably what Gul thought.

I haven't followed many Indian soaps. But one female character that I would vote for when it comes to this would be none other than KavyAnjali's Anjali. Surprisingly it happened to be an Ekta show. But that woman had some very strong characteristics that you would wanna look upto. To give you one example.. When her husband slapped her for cheating on him, she slapped him back with an equal force if not more. After that I haven't seen a woman of her calibre on Indian TV.

Then comes to my mind Khirad of Humsafar. I am yet to see such a rounded female character on any show, forget Indian daily soaps. And both the writer of the original novel and the director of the show happened to be men. I can give you numerous examples of male writers who have upheld and supported the feminist principles with full force.

So at least to me it's not about being male/female. It's about having the courage and the sensibility.
napstermonster thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
[QUOTE=eveline
We don't exist, the normal, sometimes good sometimes bad, often brave, often scared, vulnerable yet strong, smart yet foolish, emotional yet practical...the ones that make the world go round...we just don't exist. period. We are not multi layered or dimensional, we don't have any facets or personalities...nope only male characters deserve that...female characters can only be linear, the heroine or the vamp. We can either be kicked or worshipped!!
The women of today, like you and me, like all of us, who work, who study, who create, who make careers, who laugh and cry, who fight and survive, joke and jell, who run offices and homes and governments and nations, homes and families...we are aliens, an unknown, unidentified, feared species, that are best left ignored...

About depicting romance in the real way...nope don't expect. There has to be pushing, pulling, twisting wrists, pinning to the wall, intimidation, sexual tensions, enforced proximities under totally nonsensical and ridiculous situations in order to show the new age romance. Lets just royally ignore the fact that a man if in real life behaves with us in such a manner, we will kick him in the right place and jail him (if not worse) with real pleasure, forget fall in love. And also forget the message that is being sent out to the millions of young impressionable girls out there, watching this sadistic mcp view of a love story, and figuring that abuse is the 22nd century interpretation of love.
But then what can you expect from men trying to be women, men trying to think, feel, act and react like women?? But then again, beggars cant be choosers, and so this female, ranting and raving, will again tune in tomorrow to eagerly lap it all up...after all do I have an option??



Every women who's posted on this thread happens to be someone I have respect and even affection for--so I debated whether to respond with what would be very much a TRP Aunty style response--But here it is, from the heart. Here I go, taking a lot on the theory that my credit might survive the brickbats coming my way--


I'm TIRED. Not emotionally, but physically-- I literally mean I am tired at the end of the day. I spend all day, every day BEING a woman who is real and flawed and vulnerable and strong. I am, as you put it, (beautifully, and passionately, I might add) a young woman who works, who studies, who creates, who make her career, who laughs and cries, who fights and survives, jokes and jells, who runs offices and homes and governments and nations. I do all that (well, not the govt/nation stuff, but I work as a lecturer (hugely junior) at a University, so I'm helping, I hope!). But you see, I DO all that. And I like to think that I'm smart and educated and a good friend and a good wife and sister and mentor and ALL THE GOOD stuff. And I'm tired.


I want to turn my mind off, and just...drift. I want to see for those 20 minutes of mindless TV, how the other half lives. The women who have to live with crazy in laws, who think their husbands are literally gods and not just really cute, but normal men we trapped with our humor and hot high heels. Our husbands are not God incarnates, but normal guys with jobs and a career, with man-scaped stubble that doesn't look so dashing so much as it itches, who watches cricket and soccer AT THE SAME TIME and eats pasta with their hands. True story.

But then I watch these shows.

There but for the grace of God, goes me. In a chunri down to my eyes, responding to Bhabbo's every whim, caring about Ahem Dikra's green tea and wooden face, getting my wrist maarao-fied by handsome hunks with fashion houses/Army uniforms. That is the alternate fantasy world where these things can happen to the heroine as I watch, things I would respond to with a kick in the pants, 911 or a swift phone-call to my barracuda lawyer. If I was Khushi I would have owned AR Fashions after that window drop by the CEO. If I was Paro, Rudra would be in the news so fast for Guantanamo level abuse the BSD wouldn't see what hit em. If I was Sandhya, Bhabbo would be under a tombstone and just a sad memorial service once a year. If. If. But thank god--I'm not.


Because the characters are not wish fulfillment, or identifiable females, so much as awed awareness of the other side of the coin. The coin I am not on, and nor are you. And they should stay that way. They should stay opaque, they should stay fantasies. Because you cannot see these women, with these impossible lives and unreal faces and fortunes, these unreal MEN, and not feel--that cannot be real. Their reality is so uch more amazing, and so much more devastating that real life is, or should be. Loss, heartbreak, cruelty. Moments of manic happiness, interspersed with crazy pain. So, the more UNREAL, the better. And they don't have to show me reality. Because the real world would result in Paro being raped in that BSD stronghold, Khushi would have broken her back from that fall,and Sandhya would have filed for, and won, a landmark case for domestic abuse. Thats real.


If there are susceptible girls watching this I hope to god their first experience out of the house and away from the high school cafeteria is safe and secure. But they need to understand the reality of men, so they can deal with stupid expectations that comes from serials, Twilight and their grandmothers. They will get a few knocks, and learn, like the rest of us had to, about the real world. I cannot protect them, beyond warning them. I wish I could, and I'd tell anyone reading this--be smart, baisa. And talk to an ADULT before you accept that guy's internet profile/meeting.


But for myself-I'm tired Baisa. And while my literary-bent mind cannot stop the analysis, imagining and creating stories for these people, that is, also, weirdly, how I relax. And the main way I relax is by accepting that Paro onscreen will do things that go beyond understanding. I can grope my way to some resemblance of a character study. I can create my own. but I am not her, I cannot identify with her. I would love to be Parvati, with that hot Rudra after me. If I was, if I was..


But I'm not. Thank the good God and pass the popcorn.
Edited by napstermonster - 11 years ago

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